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- [00:01]
Commercial Narrator
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- [01:00]
Tim Miller
Hey, y', all, Tim Miller from the Bulwark here with my buddy, Congressman Greg Landsman from Ohio. He has a new pledge to America. He has a new pledge to him.
- [01:12]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Let's just get a great name. It's really you get name is everything. We're workshopping the name, we're working the name.
- [01:17]
Tim Miller
He has a pledge. What were the other ideas in the brainstorm?
- [01:21]
Congressman Greg Landsman
So, you know, it started with, in the 1990s with the contract for America, when Newt Gingrich, like Republicans, found themselves in a similar mess in the 90s. Right. And they put out a new governing document, which isn't the right language either. But they said, look, we will fix this. It feels like everything is broken. If you put us in charge, we will balance the budget. We will keep you safe, we'll fix the economy. And he called it the Contract for America. And they won 60, 70 seats. I mean, it was an insane election year, 1994 for them. And so I think Democrats have to have something forward looking that says, look, this is a mess. It's pure chaos. There's a level of corruption none of us have seen. There's a meanness in politics that none of us like. But the economy needs to be fixed. People need to be kept safe. We need to fix the government. There's just a whole bunch of things that need to be fixed. Here are our 10 bills. And it gives people something to hold on to and believe in and work on, in addition to just being against Trump, which I think Democrats and Americans in general desperately need.
- [02:35]
Tim Miller
What I like about this at first is, you know, it's the alcoholics question. Issue is first you got to acknowledge you got a problem, you know, and like, there are a lot of Democrats out there that, like, they kind of acknowledge it. Like, they'll pay lip service to having a problem. You know, it's like your family member, it's like, maybe I should cut back a little bit. But if they're not, like, right. Accepting it intern, you know, they're not totally embracing internally that, like, no, this was not an accident. It was not bad luck because it was only a hundred days the Kamala had to run. Or you hear the other rationales like we did. We did pretty good in the Senate seats, actually. If you go down, or the House.
- [03:09]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Seats, you know, look at the House seats.
- [03:11]
Tim Miller
It's closer than it seems. And it's like, there's a lot of cope, you know, out there and a lot of rationalization. And I think that what you're starting from is an assessment of, like, no, like a guy that was indicted in four different jurisdictions and like, and launched a mob at the Capitol, like, one reelection. There are a bunch of states that used to be on the map, including your state, Ohio, that are like, not really. That are only maybe, at best, you could say, kind of on the map now, that have moved significantly towards the Republicans in the last 10, 20 years. The voter registration numbers talk about this in the green room, look very bad for Democrats and continue to. He put all that together. And it's just. It's not a good. It's a picture that says you gotta do something different. Right. And I think there are different ideas out there on what to do different. But I'm. I'm just interested in speaking to people that at least accept that first premise, which is like, we gotta do something different, then we can figure out what different looks like.
- [04:07]
Congressman Greg Landsman
That's right. And I think it's like, to dig even deeper or to like, you know, flesh that out. We have an affordability crisis in this country. It's been happening for a while. It's not just, you know, the last coup couple of months or last couple of years. The economy is fundamentally broken. We were telling people, hey, the economy is great. It's not. It's a disaster. So every. Every election will be an affordability election, in my opinion, until America is affordable again. And that's primarily housing and health care, but also food. You got to get incomes up, but you also have to just build so much more housing, get rents down. You've got to, you know, expand healthcare and Deal with, you know, the transparency and the, you know, all of the awful, you know, health care cost issues that people are dealing with. The point is, is like we said, it was fine when it wasn't. Number two, you know, Democrats struggle when it comes to public safety. People don't think of us as the folks who are going to keep them safe. We have to take that back. We're the ones who are going to create structure and order and get guns out of our neighborhoods and invest in police.
- [05:12]
Tim Miller
I always said on this one, the Democrats had a pretty good, like, pretty easy bumper sticker on this back in the 90s, which is like fewer guns, more cops.
- [05:21]
Congressman Greg Landsman
That's it. So that was the bill.
- [05:22]
Tim Miller
Pretty easy.
- [05:23]
Congressman Greg Landsman
That was the bill in 1994. And you know, there were things about the bill that should not be carried forward, like the, you know, mass incarceration.
- [05:32]
Tim Miller
That some of the sentencing stuff.
- [05:33]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah, the sentencing stuff needs to. But the idea that you would hire 100,000 new police officers and pair that with gun reform made people safer. And so that's one of the bills. Here is a 21st century anti crime bill that says, no, we're going to be the ones who are the adults and serious about public safety. The other big issue is like the language we use. And so you won't see any of the language that I think and Third way put something out this morning on language that just so alienates folks and I think we just have to be.
- [06:09]
Tim Miller
Very, we're dialoguing actually right now in that language that's alienating.
- [06:12]
Congressman Greg Landsman
I'm in the middle of the country. My district is a third, a third. A third. Third Democrat, third Republican, third Independent. We talk so, so normally and basically like, you know, just say the thing you want to say and, and do it in a way where people don't feel like you think you're better but that you actually like them and that you believe in them and that you're going to fight for them.
- [06:34]
Tim Miller
Just really quick on this, on those that you think you're better because I, because I want to get into your policies too. But just on the vibes, part of this is also important. Yeah. And one, a friend of mine was sent me this and there's this huge, like massive study post election where consultants went and talked to all voters of all kinds of stripes and stuff. And there are a bunch of different quotes from, you know, about what people just like listening. Like what did people say? Like, why didn't they like the Democrats? And like one, the one quote that they sent me was from someone who said the Democrats seem like people that would make fun of me for shopping at Walmart.
- [07:06]
Congressman Greg Landsman
And I was just like, I mean, it hurts me. That hurts.
- [07:08]
Tim Miller
That is brutal. Like, that is so brutal.
- [07:11]
Congressman Greg Landsman
I mean, it's, you know, it's like there is this sense and I think voters, and I'm one of those voters who vote for people who I think probably like me and I vote against people who I think don't like me. And you know, I grew up in Butler county, same as J.D. vance. And like I grew up with, you know, that's mostly, you know, Trump voters. And they're good people. They don't, I don't agree with them on some of this stuff, but the more I talk to them, the more they're like, well, wait, we agree with you. I like what you're saying, but they're good people. And the idea that we had anyone, you know, that gave them the impression that they were less than is so problematic. And it's one of the reasons why, in this recent report about voter registration, why Democrats are losing the voter registration game, which is hugely problematic. And so, like, I think in addition to being like in this moment fighting the chaos and the corruption and the cruelty of Trump and just the pure incompetence and just the fact that he's like, he's destroying the economy, he's making things less affordable, he's making us less safe, you know, government is less effective, it's more corrupt, everything is going in the wrong direction. I think people also want to see a forward looking, you know, change based, anti establishment reform, whatever you want to call it, agenda that says, no, no, we are going to fix all of this. Like we're going to get serious about fixing the economy so it works for you. We're going to unrig the whole thing. We're going to unrig politics, you know, on your behalf or with you. We're going to unrig the economy on your behalf or with you. And we're going to keep you safe. And so the 10 bills give you that roadmap, which I think people need now. The other thing I call for is that we do need a new entity like the DNC and all these other folks, like they have their day to day work. We need dedicated leadership to this moment, you know, like a Heritage foundation for the left, right? Like somebody who's incredibly strong, who can lead this organization with a team of people who are out there helping folks organize in a, in a coordinated and, you know, compelling way and around Something that says, no, no, no, we are, we are going to fix all of this. And, you know, I think we desperately need that kind of dedicated leadership.
- [09:33]
Tim Miller
The fixing all of this is important. I mean, Tommy Vitor, were just talking about this on the pod, about how Democrats got stuck in this spot. Like, Democrats are like, defensive of all these institutions rather than talking about fixing them, you know, and for good. It was a reasonable kind of that they got stuck in this spot. Right. Because all these things were under assault by people who wanted to burn it down. And like, they were out there fucking, you know, with fire guns. And you were out there just saying, like with water buckets, like, no, we don't, we don't want to burn it all down. Right. And so you go through a couple of different reforms on how we can like, fix some of our Democratic institutions, fix some of the federal government institutions. One other example about that that I was, I was happy to see was in here was education in schools.
- [10:15]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yes.
- [10:15]
Tim Miller
Which is like such a big cornerstone of the Democratic and Republican, frankly, platforms, like the 90s and 2000s when we were growing up, which is like, not even talked about during the campaign. And it does feel, it's kind of like when Republicans are talking about schools now, it's like, oh, they're too woke or whatever. That's their critique. And, and Democrats are like, we just need to give them more money. The schools are great. And it's like, I feel like that's another institution that it could use a message. It's like, no, actually we should try to make this better for kids. Like, maybe that's what we should do.
- [10:44]
Congressman Greg Landsman
We haven't had a national sort of strategy around public education or education improvement. And 25 years, that was when we did no Child Left behind, which didn't really work. I mean, it was really predicated on this idea that if we just have national standards, everything will get better. And it didn't. You know, what I lay out is, you know, having done child education advocacy for a long, you know, most of my career is what we know to be true about what's best for children. And that is you've got to invest, you know, along the sort of trajectory of brain development which other countries do, and if we did, we would see fundamental, fundamentally better outcomes for kids and schools. And that's a better use of your dollar, your, your, your money. So if every mom had access to high quality prenatal care and birth outcomes improved, which is when brain development is happening, and then people had paid family leave and could spend A little bit more time with their child, which helps with brain development. And then they had access to childcare in preschool. Every kid is showing up. And if a kid does not show up prepared, because we do have these national assessments at kindergarten, and then they get an extra year. And that would specifically. Well, that would help everybody, but in particular, it would help young boys, and that would help us fix some of the issues with young boys who are just falling further and further behind, in part because they started behind and we never helped. And in terms of the K12 system, like, yeah, they need additional help after school, summer learning, you know, catching kids up. But if you can get them all prepared and then you can make sure that they have some career trajectory, whether that's college or something else, and that it's mostly paid for, then you will have, you know, the greatest education system in the world, and we then will have the greatest workforce and economy, which is. Which is what we desperately need. And that's laid out here. And I think people could grab onto that and be like, okay, that's better. Right? So in addition to not, you know, defunding the Department of Education and withholding hundreds of billions of dollars from our schools, let's actually fix it.
- [12:53]
Tim Miller
I mean, it feels like a preferable program to, like, let's take out the gay Penguin book out of the school. To me, but I feel like let's take the gay Penguin book out of the school was, like, actually winning the argument versus let's do nothing. Yeah, I honestly, let's keep things going. Like, things are going crazy. What do you, like, your. Have your colleagues, like, have they reacted to this? I mean, I don't know. Like, there are 10 potential bills here. Are there. Are there one or two of them they've grabbed onto? Are they rolling their eyes at you?
- [13:21]
Congressman Greg Landsman
No, it's always. It's been positive feedback. I mean, I talked to, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, the leader, about this many, many times and at. And at length, and he's working through a process where they're doing listings. You know, he's got the whole caucus, so he's got to really build this with others. But he likes the idea that, you know, that doesn't mean that I can't put something out there to start that conversation, too. I think there's a real sense that we have to present something to the American people that's fundamentally better than what they're getting right now from either party. And then I've talked to just other thought leaders in the party, including AOCs who I think is, A, one of our best communicators. But B, she does policy well. She's incredibly smart. Um, and, you know, the pieces where I think I'm more of a middle of the road, pragmatic sort of, you know, let's fix it and let's get everyone working together. And I think she's more or less, you know, this is one of the words that we're not allowed to use, but the overture.
- [14:26]
Tim Miller
The Overton window.
- [14:27]
Congressman Greg Landsman
The Overton window. I'm, I'm. I'm faking. I'm pretending I didn't know it, but yeah, you know, I think she sees her role as, like, trying to shift that, which is great. Like, that's important. But the first few bills, I think were on the same page, which is you gotta fix the economy in part by fixing the tax code. So make everyone at the top pay all their taxes and invest that in balancing the budget and giving people tax relief that they can spend throughout the year so they can pay their bills. That's where we have to go. You gotta tackle price gouging and corporate consolidation. That's that first bill to fix the economy and make things more affordable. I think the abundance. Get America building again. That I do think we are coming to a place where we're all aligned, that we have got to start building more infrastructure, more broadband, more housing. Like we. Our moonshot should be around housing. Like some insane number of new housing units. Right. And then I think she. That crew, we agree on the healthcare piece. Like, not maybe every detail, but, you know, like the country needs a public option and we gotta reverse the healthcare cut. Healthcare has to be a piece that we invest in so that people stop worrying about it so much. Like, it's just a huge part of the affordability issue. Housing and healthcare. I think that where there's gonna be a debate within the party is around national security and public safety. I tend to be more of a hawk and I tend to be more serious about investing in both police and community and gun reform. I just don't think you pick one, you have to do all of them.
- [16:06]
Tim Miller
I'm going to do a couple of politics questions for others. We'll just lump them together in one. You got Sherrod running in Ohio. How are you feeling about that? On the one hand, obviously, he won some campaigns, you know, in tough spots there in Ohio, so that's encouraging. On the other hand, there's thoughts of, like, I don't know, could Democrats use fresh blood? Well, I think actually, let's Just start there.
- [16:26]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah. I mean, I think it's good that Shared's running. Sherrod's a really good person and he is, you know, sort of Ohio through and through. I always said about John Tester, like, when John Tester walked in the room, it was like, well, Montana's here. You know, like, Shared's like that with Ohio, which is great. And, you know, and I think he's got an incredibly good shot. I think this is. This is going to be a toss up pretty quickly. But I also, like, think Shared ran in part because he believes that there's a path to taking back the majority in the Senate. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have run. I just think that, like, that's really important for him. It's like, well, I don't want to just run and, like, go back to the Senate if I'm just going to, like, you know, cut the margin a little bit or not have any impact on the margin. I want to make sure that I'm part of, you know, taking back the majority so that we can hold this dude accountable and reverse course. And I think the fact that he said yes suggests that he does see that pathway and it's compelling. And that pathway includes North Carolina. It includes Maine, potentially Alaska, but it's, you know, Iowa and Texas and Ohio, which is good. I think that's very good.
- [17:40]
Tim Miller
What do you think about Dark Gavin? What do you think about what Gavin's been doing?
- [17:44]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Two things, like, as a human being, Love it. Hilarious. You know, anytime you can energize the troops, great. We live in this attention seeking, you know, environment where you have to. You have to grab attention. I get it. And he's. He's crushing it.
- [18:04]
Tim Miller
If you thought about doing any of those no caps.
- [18:07]
Congressman Greg Landsman
So that's the second thing.
- [18:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Okay.
- [18:08]
Congressman Greg Landsman
It's not for me, you know, like, I love it. It's just not. It's not for me. It's not the way I'm built. I'm not.
- [18:16]
Tim Miller
I'm saying that you don't have that dog in you.
- [18:18]
Congressman Greg Landsman
No. Well, I mean, I have a fight in me. Like, I'm. I'm. I'm probably maybe more aggressive, you know.
- [18:23]
Tim Miller
Like, maybe you don't have the shit posting dog. You've got a different one.
- [18:26]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah, it's a very different intensity. Like, my intensity plays out and like, let's get something done and like, I'm going to, like, run through a wall to get it done.
- [18:34]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [18:34]
Congressman Greg Landsman
But, yeah, shit, posting is not my thing. I just. But that doesn't mean I'm not. I'm not saying it's like, it's good. Like, I'm glad he's doing it again. Energizing the troop, pulling attention. Great. I just. As I watch it, and I was telling my wife this the other night, I was like, God, I would. It's just not me. Like, because sometimes you see other politicians when you're a politician and they do something, they get all this attention. You're like, oh, I should do that.
- [18:56]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I could have done that.
- [18:57]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah. Or, well, yeah, it was like, I could have done that. Or, you know, maybe I need to play that game. And I'm like, no, not me.
- [19:04]
Tim Miller
No, no. Yeah. No, look, I keep saying to all the Democrats, you want difference. The party is different. The party is very diverse. Like, it's good to have somebody. What I don't like is where it's like, oh, we need to be singing from the same hymn book. Not. Not really. I mean, maybe in 20. For three months at the end of the election. 20, 28. Yeah, it's good to sing from the same hymn book. But, like, right now, it's good to have. I want. Some Democrats are out there saying, we need solutions and answers, and some other ones that are out there saying, fuck you, Donald Trump. And, like, other ones that are like, I'm really pissed about this. You know what? That's good. That's how you engage different types of.
- [19:37]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah, it actually takes pressure off me a little bit because, like, on one hand, like, I. Like, obviously, I'm. I'm fighting back every day, you know, but, like, it doesn't break through as much. It's been hard to break through me. Gavin had to do this. This. You know, he's the governor of the larger state. He's in the middle of multiple, like, confrontations with Trump. Plus the Twitter. Like, it took a lot to break through, but because that's happening, the pressure is taken off a little bit in terms of being able to say, like, hey, let's talk a little bit about where we go from here, which is more. MySpace.
- [20:12]
Tim Miller
Final topic that's just come across the transom here. Always news with Donald Trump. He just said this. The 2026 FIFA World cup draw will take place at the Kennedy Center. Some people refer to it as the Trump Kennedy center, but we're not prepared to do that quite yet. Maybe in a week or so.
- [20:29]
Congressman Greg Landsman
It's always a week or so, which I. Which is fantastic. And Gavin needs to start doing the week or so.
- [20:36]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [20:36]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Right. Because it's always a week or so. I obviously think that, like, the Kennedy center is, you know, it just, it's, it's, it's on one hand, it's like, it's attention seeking. Like, he just needs everyone talking about him constantly, which is, which suggests that he's a very small, fragile, weak person. And I want strong leaders on the.
- [20:56]
Tim Miller
How about this? I've got an idea for you. I got an idea for you to appeal to his fragility.
- [21:01]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah.
- [21:02]
Tim Miller
Maybe just go, I don't know. Are there any Republicans you actually talk to? There's somebody talking to. I mean, it's a little different these days.
- [21:08]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah. No, I mean, behind the scenes, they're still like, they want to do the work, too. Not all.
- [21:13]
Tim Miller
So. So why don't you grab a couple of them that want to do the work and say, how about this? We'll do, we'll co sponsor. We'll do the build Baby build bill. We're going to build a bunch of houses. And what you guys, I'm going to do get all of my policy priorities. And what you guys get is we're going to put Trump on Mount Rushmore. So it's a joint bill. We're going to build baby builder to build houses. I want to put his face on there and call their bluff. Or how about like Medicaid? We're going to, we're going to restore all the Medicaid. He gets his, but he gets his face on that Rush. Would you guys vote for that? You know, kind of put them on.
- [21:41]
Congressman Greg Landsman
The, put on the two together. Yeah. I mean, that's what world leaders do to them.
- [21:45]
Tim Miller
Yeah, right.
- [21:46]
Congressman Greg Landsman
That's what, that's how they treat them now on the FIFA thing. Just because there's one. He is good at sort of stepping into the culture in a way that sounds like so lame, but in a way that Democrats don't like. I've become a big soccer, football, you know, guy because we have an MLS team and like, we love our MLS team. And so now that means that I, like, watch the Premier League and like, FIFA is great. Like, so he does this in a way where, like, Democrats should do the same. It, it is, it is an indictment on us that he was the first president to go to the Super Bowl. Like, that's terrible. And I understand that there's some money there, but people need to see you participating in their world.
- [22:27]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [22:28]
Congressman Greg Landsman
And so I do think it is smart. And like, you Democrats should spend time thinking about, like, all right, am I going to, like, we have fight nights here, boxing stuff that, that are so great. You got high school football stuff, you got, you got a million things. But, like, I. I think leaning into that stuff is something that we have to do. Yeah, you got to do it authentically. Like, you can't. Like, you can't be a. Be a weirdo at a NASCAR event, but, like, go to a NASCAR event.
- [22:55]
Tim Miller
Mma.
- [22:55]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah, mma.
- [22:56]
Tim Miller
All the kids are into right now.
- [22:57]
Congressman Greg Landsman
Yeah.
- [22:58]
Tim Miller
All right, Greg Landsman. We'll put a link here at the bottom for folks who want to see the specifics of the bill of the or the bills, the pledge to America. Appreciate it, brother, and we'll be chat with you soon. All right, man. All right.
- [23:07]
Congressman Greg Landsman
See ya. You don't need to be ripped.
- [23:09]
Tim Miller
You just need the right shirt.
- [23:10]
Congressman Greg Landsman
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