Elon's DOGE Email Unleashes Chaos

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Detailed Summary of "Elon's DOGE Email Unleashes Chaos"

Release Date: February 24, 2025
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Hosts: Sam Stein, Lauren Egan, Tim Miller

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Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosted by Sam Stein, Lauren Egan, and Tim Miller, the team delves into the turbulent aftermath of Elon Musk's controversial email to the DOGE team. The discussion navigates through Musk's attempt to streamline communications within the government-associated DOGE team by mandating employees to report their weekly activities, the ensuing chaos, and the broader implications for government operations and political dynamics.

Elon's DOGE Email Incident

The episode kicks off with Sam Stein outlining the crux of the controversy:

Sam Stein [01:43]: "We're going to talk about Doge. We're going to talk about Elon. We're going to talk about Elon's email that went out over the weekend that everyone might be forced to resign if they didn't tell what five things they've done in the past week to their, I guess, to the Doge team."

Elon Musk's email demanded that DOGE team employees list five tasks they've accomplished in the past week, under the threat of forced resignations for non-compliance. This move was perceived as an attempt to impose corporate-style accountability within a governmental framework, leading to significant backlash.

Government Response and Internal Conflict

The hosts discuss the varied responses from different government agencies to Musk's directive:

Sam Stein [03:03]: "All right, so there it is. Trump's like, it seems like a good idea. It's not so bad. But in reality, everyone basically in the government has told Elon to pound sand."

Agencies including the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the Department of Agriculture (USDA), the Department of Defense (DoD), and officials like Tulsi Gabbard and Cash Patel advised their teams to ignore Musk's email, stating that there would be no penalties for non-response.

Lauren Egan adds depth to this by highlighting the internal resistance:

Lauren Egan [05:25]: "I feel like it's almost like revenge of the middle managers right now. Like, middle managers are just kind of like, we're not doing this. And it's kind of like the first crack. I feel like we're seeing that like anyone who like has worked in the federal government just knows how big of a bureaucracy is and how like these middle managers are going to try and protect their teams to the extent they can."

This resistance is framed as a protective measure by middle managers against what they perceive as unnecessary and disruptive oversight from Musk.

Trump's Position and Elon-Government Dynamics

The episode explores former President Trump's stance on the matter and potential friction between Musk and the current administration:

Tim Miller [03:40]: "I don't think so, because Donald Trump also, in addition to that video you just showed, bleed at this yesterday, all caps. Elon is doing a great job, but I'd like to see him get more aggressive. Remember, we have a country to save, blah, blah, blah."

Sam Stein probes whether there's genuine tension or if the situation is being exaggerated:

Sam Stein [08:29]: "Like you think he's totally cool with this. Tim. I sense that he. How can you not, how can you not find some of this annoying? Elon's around all the time. He's constantly doing stupid, he's getting overturned in court, constantly. He's annoying all your people, all the people you've put around you. Like, I find that, I find that I wouldn't have fun with that."

Tim Miller responds by expressing his disdain for Musk's antics:

Tim Miller [08:59]: "I would want to hang out with someone like that ... I'd rather rip my toenails off than spend 5min with Elon. Like I have no interest in hanging out with him."

The conversation suggests that while Trump may publicly support Musk, there is underlying frustration within the government regarding Musk's interference and management style.

Analysis of Musk's Strategy and Effectiveness

The hosts critically analyze Musk's approach, questioning its efficacy and underlying motives:

Sam Stein [07:52]: "Like it just feels so like corporate, you know, like yeah, like he's taking his playbook and he's adopting it to the government. I want him to like come up with innovative ways to make people miserable. There's got to be other ways to do it."

Lauren Egan expands on the potential reasons behind Musk's actions:

Lauren Egan [07:43]: "But in this case, the middle manager is literally the cabinet official. It's like Cash Patel being like, cash is in the cabinet. But like it's, you know, cash is like, you know what? Actually, I don't really think that Elon should determine if my team resigns because they didn't respond to Elon's email."

Tim Miller suggests a possible ulterior motive:

Tim Miller [06:33]: "Like everything that he's done has been ill conceived. So like here is like on the one hand this is just like he's way, he's way out over his skis. They don't know what they're doing. It's a shit show. They're going to get overturned in court. That said like one part of their motivation here is I do think that they want to make people's lives miserable and they want people to self resign."

This segment underscores the perception that Musk's tactics may be more about disrupting and asserting control rather than fostering genuine efficiency or accountability.

Comparisons to Previous Administrations

The discussion contrasts the current administration's approach with that of previous ones, particularly highlighting the differences between Trump and Biden's administrations:

Lauren Egan [10:38]: "Obviously we've all talked about when Biden was in office, how it was so boring Compared to Trump. And, like, that is just true. Like, what was the most exciting thing that happened during the Biden years? Sam? I can't even remember."

Sam Stein [11:20]: "But I'm just saying, what qualified is spicy then is just like, no, it's."

The hosts lament the relative lack of dynamism in Biden's administration compared to the more tumultuous Trump era, suggesting that Musk's interference brings back a semblance of that turbulence.

Humorous Interlude: AI-Generated Content

Adding levity to the discussion, the hosts mention an AI-generated video involving Elon and Trump:

Sam Stein [12:31]: "Apparently, someone hacked into their systems, apparently. And posted video. AI generated video. I think it's AI generated."

Tim Miller [12:44]: "Don't show it."

Lauren Egan [12:56]: "It's so cruel."

This segment showcases the absurdity and potential misinformation issues surrounding high-profile figures like Musk and Trump.

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the broader implications of Musk's actions:

Sam Stein [13:58]: "Like, I think what they want is just Trump to get rid of the guy. But, I mean, I get it. I think it's so obviously transparent and handed that no one's gonna buy it. Even Trump's like, I know what you're trying to do."

Tim Miller [14:08]: "I hate this gimmick. It's too transparent. And number two, be careful what you wish for."

The consensus among the hosts is that Musk's attempt to enforce corporate-style scrutiny within a governmental context is both ineffective and counterproductive, potentially breeding more resentment and dysfunction rather than achieving any meaningful reform.

Notable Quotes

• Sam Stein [02:17]: "He's trying to find out who's working for the government, are we paying other people that aren't working? And you know, where is all that? Where's the money going?"

• Lauren Egan [05:25]: "I feel like we're seeing that like anyone who has worked in the federal government just knows how big of a bureaucracy is and how like these middle managers are going to try and protect their teams to the extent they can."

• Tim Miller [06:33]: "It's a shit show. They're going to get overturned in court. They've already been overturned in court."

• Sam Stein [07:52]: "I want him to come up with innovative ways to make people miserable. There's got to be other ways to do it."

Conclusion

The episode of Bulwark Takes provides a critical examination of Elon Musk's controversial email to the DOGE team, highlighting the internal resistance within government agencies, the strained dynamics between Musk and political figures like Trump, and the broader challenges of imposing corporate practices on governmental structures. Through insightful dialogue and sharp analysis, the hosts underscore the complexities and potential pitfalls of such interventions, painting a picture of a government grappling with external pressures and internal rigidity.

For those interested in the intersection of technology, politics, and government operations, this episode offers a nuanced perspective on how individual actions can ripple through established institutions, often with unforeseen consequences.

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For more analyses and discussions on current events, stay tuned to The Bulwark's "Bulwark Takes." Visit thebulwark.com for additional content and insights.

Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Me. Sam Stein, Managing editor at the Bulwark, we are joined today for her inaugural bulwark YouTube. Come on, a little more exciting.

[Lauren Egan]

No, I'm pumped. I'm pumped, I'm pumped. I feel like you had to give a little bit more excitement in that intro.

[Sam Stein]

Where are you joined day? Lauren Egan is joining us. She's. She's coming on board. She's got a new newsletter. More on that later. Lauren, thanks so much. Happy to have you. And we're.

[Lauren Egan]

Thank you for having me.

[Sam Stein]

And we're joined by Tim.

[Tim]

What's up, y'all? Hey, Lauren. Let's do this. Let's do this. What are we talking about?

[Sam Stein]

We're going to talk about Doge. We're going to talk about Elon. We're going to talk about Elon's email that went out over the weekend that everyone might be forced to resign if they didn't tell what five things they've done in the past week to their, I guess to the Doge team. It's kind of blown up in Elon's face a little bit. The reason we're talking about is that Trump was asked about it at a press conference today with Emmanuel Macron and here's what he said.

[Lauren Egan]

Do you think that Doge could benefit from more streamlined communications? There was that email telling employees to give five things that they've done last week. Agency heads then told people to ignore it.

[Unnamed Guest]

But the last email that was sent where he wanted to know what you did this week. You know why he wanted that, by the way. I thought it was great because we have people that don't show up to work and nobody even knows if they work for the government. So by asking the question, tell us what you did this week. What he's doing is saying, are you actually working? And then if you don't answer, like you're sort of semi fired or you're fired because a lot of people are not answering because they don't even exist. They're trying to find. That's how badly various parts of our government were run by and especially by this last group. So what they're doing is they're trying to find out who's working for the government, are we paying other people that aren't working? And you know, where is all that? Where's the money going?

[Sam Stein]

All right, so there it is. Trump's like, it seems like a good idea. It's not so bad. But in reality, everyone basically in the government has told Elon to pound sand. Right. Like all different agencies, hhs, they initially said you should respond, then they said don't. USDA said don't respond. And also don't worry, there's no penalty for not responding. DoD said no. Tulsi Gabbard said no. Cash Patel said no. All right, so Tim, is this like an actual friction point between Elon and the rest of the cabinet, or is there too much into it?

[Tim]

I don't think so, because Donald Trump also, in addition to that video you just showed, bleed at this yesterday, all caps. Elon is doing a great job, but I'd like to see him get more aggressive. Remember, we have a country to save, blah, blah, blah.

[Sam Stein]

But that's the bleep that started the email. He bleeded that and then Elon emailed.

[Tim]

Yeah, right.

[Sam Stein]

So Elon's pumping it up.

[Tim]

He's excited about this though. And all of these guys will do whatever Trump wants. Trump doesn't actually care about the response. You know, I mean, there was, I liked the meme going around with the guy that sent the office space response says, well, I generally came in 15 minutes late. I used the side door. That way Lumberg can't see me, you know, so I mean, like there weren't serious responses being sent here.

[Sam Stein]

I was wondering like what the most outrageous response they get it's gonna be.

[Tim]

I will tell you though, we were at the principals first summit over the weekend. I'm sure people have seen. Maybe you go to the other videos on the feed if you haven't seen. I did an event with Jared Polis and Sarah Longwell and the January 6th cops were there. Anyway, afterwards I was talking with like that email went out while I was on stage. And afterwards I was talking with a couple of the attendees who are federal government workers who like, did it, who literally sent their reply in because they were nervous.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. I was talking to people over the weekend who were like, I guess I'm just gonna start writing about what I did last week. I don' what else to do. But I feel like it's almost like revenge of the middle managers right now. Like, middle managers are just kind of like, we're not doing this. And it's kind of like the first crack. I feel like we're seeing that like anyone who like has worked in the federal government just knows how big of a bureaucracy is and how like these middle managers are going to try and protect their teams to the extent they can. And I feel like they're kind of like, morale sucks. Like, no, like, we're not doing this.

[Tim]

Lauren's. Lawrence. Lauren's pitch is these guys. This being the revenge of the middle managers is the first thing that's made me side, maybe side with Elon this whole time. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm like, I don't know. Nobody likes a middle manager.

[Lauren Egan]

No, we have too many middle managers.

[Sam Stein]

But in this case, the middle manager is literally the cabinet official. It's like Cash Patel being like, cash is in the cabinet. But like it's, you know, cash is like, you know what? Actually, I don't really think that Elon should determine if my team resigns because they didn't respond to Elon's email.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. I mean, it's like the first sign that he's not going to be universally successful and literally everything he's doing.

[Sam Stein]

Right. That's what's interesting to me is that here's. He has no actual authority to do this. Right. He can't like force people from the government and then. But more than that, he's inserting his himself into other people's business and it's totally arbitrary and obviously it was totally ill conceived. Right. Like what actually think about actually if it actually works. Right. Like you get 2.3 million emails and then what do you do with it?

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. Is there like a scoring system for like.

[Sam Stein]

What are you looking for in the response?

[Lauren Egan]

We're going to use what is the right, like buzzword. Yeah.

[Tim]

Grok. Grok is going to determine who gave the worst answers and then we'll. And then we're going to fire 5%. No, I mean everything that he's done has been ill conceived. So like here is like on the one hand this is just like he's way, he's way out over his skis. They don't know what they're doing. It's a shit show. They're going to get overturned in court. They've already been overturned in court. That said like one part of their motivation here is I do think that they want to make people's lives miserable and they want people to self resign. Like this is like they want people to choose to leave the federal government because they don't want to deal with this shit. So they can either replace them with loyalists or not replace them. Like and that is like a part of their strategy. And so my guess is that like while Elon was sort of titillated by like fucking bossing people around and making them do busy work for him, like and that was really the whole thing. Like he likes sending out dick emails because he likes the attention. I do think there are probably some people around him in the rest votes of the world that are kind of like the more he annoys these people, these people being the entire federal government workforce, the better for our end. So it's like partially useful.

[Sam Stein]

But that's the thing that got me, I guess, was that it was just so unimaginative. Like he's done the same exact thing at prior workplaces, right?

[Lauren Egan]

Like it just feels so like corporate, you know, like yeah, like he's taking.

[Sam Stein]

His playbook and he's adopting it to the government. I want him to like come up with innovative ways to make people miserable. There's got to be other ways to do it.

[Lauren Egan]

Agent. They're an agent of chaos, Sam.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, exactly. I feel like if he's going to do this on a broader scale, try something new.

[Tim]

It feels kind of like a Sam Stein email to staff. Really?

[Lauren Egan]

Actually I was going to say, yeah, Sam, if I get that, I've never.

[Sam Stein]

Sent the top five email. The other thing though is, I guess and this goes back to Trump is like do we really think he actually doesn't find it a little annoying?

[Tim]

Right.

[Sam Stein]

Like you think he's totally cool with this. Tim. I sense that he. How can you not, how can you not find some of this annoying? Elon's around all the time. He's constantly doing stupid, he's getting overturned in court, constantly. He's annoying all your people, all the people you've put around you. Like, I find that, I find that that would be grading. I find that I wouldn't have fun with that.

[Tim]

Yeah, well, I don't. You know, it's hard for me to predict. I'm not telling you to predict. I'm just saying I would want to.

[Sam Stein]

Hang out with someone like that.

[Tim]

No, of course not. Oh, I'd rather, I'd rather rip my toenails off than spend 5min with Elon. Like I have no interest in hanging out with him. But Trump, you would have think he would have been sick with him already. And like Trump surrounds himself again. Like I said, we went about Trump's New York life like he was, you know, he wishes he got more respect. There's a Rodney Dangerfield element of it. But like he hung out with like celebrities and rappers and like cool people and smart people when he was a businessman at the Apprentice and now he's like hanging out with cougars in Mar a Lago and like Seb Gorka and like you would have thought he'd be sick of it already. So maybe he won't get sick of Elon. I don't know. I do think that he likes the fact that Elon is super rich and, and famous and he feels like that he gets benefit from that. I feel like as long as he feels like he's getting benefit from it then, then Elon will still be around. But it's definitely going to create tensions within the staff underneath but that like no matter who's in there, these people are going to be like monkeys throwing shit at each other.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, maybe that's it's just Elon so wealthy that you can't afford to not have him around.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. I mean, I think it is surprising that he's wanted him been around this long. Like when this first, when he first took office, I feel like the conventional wisdom was Trump's gonna get bored. He always gets bored. He's gonna get jealous of the spotlight and it hasn't happened yet. So I don't know. He's got, got something for Elon. I don't know.

[Sam Stein]

He does. Not ending anytime soon.

[Tim]

Lauren, I do wonder you covered before this. You were covering the Biden White House and this is just so different. Like, you know, you have to just be like, is this even the same world? I mean the Biden White House was so quiet and stuffy and it's like, I wonder Steve Rachetti is mad at Anita Dunn. I mean, it's just, it's gotta be a kind of astounding.

[Lauren Egan]

Obviously we've all talked about when Biden was in office, how it was so boring Compared to Trump. And, like, that is just true. Like, what was the most exciting thing that happened during the Biden years? Sam? I can't even remember. What's the most exciting story we wrote together when he dropped out of the race? Like, that was it.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, obviously that. Yeah.

[Tim]

Maybe it was nearest the White House, though. Like, the management of the White House.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

And Joe Manchin once got into a tip.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

I'm like, Ron, right? There was. There was some people that like to be, like, a little spicy on Twitter. But, like, I don't. That's not even, like, the right word to use compared to, like, what the Trump team does.

[Sam Stein]

That's like stale mayonnaise compared to what's going on right now. Come on.

[Lauren Egan]

Totally.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

But I'm just saying, what qualified is spicy then is just like, no, it's.

[Sam Stein]

Unfathomable to me that you would have in the Biden years. Like, I guess the comparison would be if, like, I can't even do it. Like, it would be. Who would be the Elon of the Biden years? Like, Alex Soros was like, given. Was given the chance to, like, tell all the cabinet officials. Like, actually, if your people don't respond to me, they're going to.

[Tim]

This is part of the problem. Somebody. I forgot it was Kinsey. I was on the pod last weekend. We were making a joke about how I was going to start doing conspiracy theories so I could become the Joe Rogan of the left. And they're like, well, who would be your Elon smoking weed with you in the studio? And I'm like, I don't know. Reid Hoffman.

[Sam Stein]

Who would be the smoking Blunts? Who would be the Democratic version of Cash Patel and Dan Bongino?

[Tim]

These people don't exist.

[Lauren Egan]

Isn't one. Yeah, they don't.

[Sam Stein]

Aaron Rupar.

[Tim]

I was doing this when. When the Hegseth got appointed Secretary of Defense. I kept coming up trying to come up with a tweet about, like, who. Who. Who she would. Who he would pick. And it was, like, offensive to all the people. Like, I put Joe Scarborough. I was like, that's kind of mean to Joe. I was like, I can't do Joe.

[Lauren Egan]

That is very mean to Joe.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, this popped up this morning. It's from Housing and Urban Development. Apparently, someone. Someone hacked into their systems, apparently. And posted video. AI generated video. I think it's AI generated.

[Tim]

Don't show it.

[Lauren Egan]

I know. I know where you're going.

[Sam Stein]

This was in their cafeteria. It's Elon. It's Donald Trump kissing Elon's feet. Long live the real king. I don't know.

[Lauren Egan]

Just wanted to get in the cafeteria.

[Sam Stein]

In the cafeteria is the worst part.

[Lauren Egan]

It's so cruel.

[Sam Stein]

It's not. It's not great.

[Tim]

I don't know. It's a no for me. I don't like it.

[Sam Stein]

Why do you mean it's a no?

[Tim]

I mean, I don't like the image.

[Sam Stein]

I don't like you're the most voyeuristic on the staff. What the fuck?

[Tim]

I, I, yeah, but not in this situation. I'm not voyeuristic towards Elon and Trump. I don't want to see, like, the one picture of Elon shirtless is still smeared into my brain. I can't get it out. Sometimes appears. Yeah, he looks awful. It's just like, he has the worst body. I've seen the proportions, but I also just don't like. There is this, like, resistance thing that I don't like. His proportions are terrible. The resistance thing, I don't like, top heavy. Is this, like, oh, we're gonna try to make Trump jealous by talking about how, yeah, that's the real president. I hate this gimmick. It's too transparent. And number two, be careful what you wish for. Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Wait, what do you mean, be careful you wish for?

[Tim]

I don't want King Elon. I don't. You know what I mean? Like, who the hell knows, right?

[Sam Stein]

Like, I think what they want is just Trump to get rid of the guy. But, I mean, I get it. I think it's so obviously transparent and handed that no one's gonna buy it. Even Trump's like, I know what you're trying to do.

[Lauren Egan]

Like, yeah, it's just, like, too hokey at this point. Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. All right, well, we'll leave it there, folks. If so, we're recording some Monday in the afternoon, the deadline to respond to this email, which apparently no one's responding to, or only, like, one Department of Transportation. I think you're required to respond in Ed Martin's office. You're required to respond, but so random. But apparently you're not. You don't need to respond anymore if you're like, 90% of the rest of the government. Also, OPM has said you will not lose your jobs if you fail to respond despite Elon's tweet. But listen, if you get, if you're out there and you get any guidance, if you see anything after the midnight deadline, hit us up. We have a tip line, the bulwark.com tips. You know how to reach us we'll check those out. Lauren, how'd it feel?

[Lauren Egan]

It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure.

[Sam Stein]

Not so bad, right?

[Tim]

We're delighted to have you.

[Sam Stein]

All right. Plenty more to come. All right, take care, guys.