Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – "Exclusive: Mark Kelly Smacks Down Elon After He Calls Astronaut Senator A Traitor"

Release Date: March 11, 2025
Host: The Bulwark Team (including Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, and Bill Kristol)
Guest: Senator Mark Kelly, Arizona

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Bulwark Takes, host Andrew Egger delves into the ongoing geopolitical tensions surrounding Ukraine, focusing on recent policy shifts by the Trump administration. Senator Mark Kelly joins the conversation to provide firsthand insights from his latest trip to Ukraine and addresses a surprising confrontation with Elon Musk on social media.

Trump Administration's Policy Shift on Ukraine

Andrew Egger opens the discussion by highlighting President Donald Trump's controversial policy changes regarding Ukraine:

• Aid Freezes: Trump has suspended battlefield aid and U.S. intelligence support to Ukraine, creating a complex dilemma for Congress members who remain steadfast allies of Ukraine.

• Impact on Lawmakers: "Many of our lawmakers remain staunch allies of Ukraine, but their wings have been clipped by what's going on in the Oval Office." ([00:00])

This shift has left Ukrainian forces vulnerable and has raised concerns about the United States' commitment to its allies.

Senator Mark Kelly's Trip to Ukraine

Senator Kelly provides an in-depth account of his third visit to Ukraine, emphasizing the dire consequences of the Trump administration's policy changes.

Concerns Over Policy Changes

Kelly expresses deep concern over the reduction in military and intelligence support:

• "Cutting the Ukrainians off from the weapons that we've been providing to them...is damaging to the Ukrainian effort." ([00:45])

He underscores the existential threat Ukraine faces and the necessity of continued U.S. support to prevent further casualties and uphold national security interests.

Firsthand Observations

During his trip, Kelly engaged with various stakeholders:

• Veterans Hospital Visits: He met with nurses and veterans who shared harrowing experiences of Russian atrocities, including the rape and murder of Ukrainian children witnessed by medical staff.

  • "Some of the stories are shocking... They will cease to exist as a country if they're not successful." ([Mark Kelly, 00:45])

• Military Insights: Interaction with F16 pilots highlighted the advancements and ongoing challenges faced by Ukrainian forces.

  • "They have learned a lot... They need more pilots, they need more airplanes..." ([Mark Kelly, 05:56])

Emotional Appeals

Kelly shares poignant moments that illustrate the resilience and determination of Ukrainians:

• "We will fight with rocks and sticks if we have to." ([Mark Kelly, 05:32])

He emphasizes that abandoning Ukraine would not only betray an ally but also weaken global security alliances essential for America's safety.

Elon Musk's Social Media Clash

The conversation shifts to a viral incident where Elon Musk labeled Senator Kelly a "traitor" on Twitter following Kelly's post about his Ukraine trip.

Senator Kelly's Response

Kelly dismisses Musk's comments, criticizing his understanding of national security:

• "He apparently doesn't understand how national security works... He should stay out of this." ([Mark Kelly, 09:24])

He further criticizes Musk's focus on billionaire interests over public welfare:

• "He's an unelected billionaire who has been focused... on making the world better for billionaires." ([Mark Kelly, 09:24])

Kelly mentions that he did respond to Musk's tweet but remains largely unfazed by the criticism.

Implications for U.S.-Russia Negotiations

Andrew Egger probes into Musk's involvement with Secretary of State Marco Rubio regarding Ukraine negotiations.

Negotiation Challenges

Kelly expresses cautious optimism but outlines significant hurdles:

• "It's hard to negotiate with the Russians when they have the upper hand." ([Mark Kelly, 10:55])

He criticizes Trump's recent negotiations stance, noting that seeding key points like NATO membership and territorial concessions undermines effective bargaining:

• "Donald Trump seeded those points before the negotiations start. That's not the way you get a good deal." ([Mark Kelly, 10:55])

Strategic Recommendations

Kelly advocates for maintaining support until a favorable ceasefire is achievable:

• "Allow them to continue to get the weapons they need until we get to a ceasefire." ([Mark Kelly, 10:55])

He emphasizes the long-term benefits of supporting Ukraine for sustaining strong international alliances:

• "They will stand by the United States of America if we continue to stand with them." ([Mark Kelly, 10:55])

Potential Government Shutdown and Legislative Outlook

Towards the end of the episode, Egger briefly touches upon the looming threat of a government shutdown.

Senator Kelly's Take

Kelly provides a measured perspective, acknowledging the complexities of the negotiations:

• "Government shutdowns aren't good..." ([Mark Kelly, 15:30])

He hints at behind-the-scenes discussions aiming to prevent a full shutdown but remains non-committal on specific outcomes.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Senator Kelly reiterating the critical need for sustained U.S. support for Ukraine, both for moral reasons and strategic national security interests. His confrontation with Elon Musk underscores the polarized landscape of public discourse surrounding foreign policy. Andrew Egger and Kelly leave listeners with a clear message: supporting Ukraine is not just a geopolitical necessity but a commitment to upholding democratic values and global stability.

Notable Quotes:

• “They will cease to exist as a country if they're not successful.” — Senator Mark Kelly ([00:45])

• “We will fight with rocks and sticks if we have to.” — Ukrainian Veteran ([Mark Kelly, 05:32])

• “Elon Musk... has been focused... on making the world better for billionaires.” — Senator Mark Kelly ([09:24])

• “We want Ukraine to be on our side. If we want them on our side, we have to be on their side.” — Senator Mark Kelly ([10:55])

This episode of Bulwark Takes offers a thorough exploration of the current challenges facing Ukraine, the implications of U.S. policy shifts, and the intricate dynamics of international diplomacy, all through the insightful lens of Senator Mark Kelly.