Bulwark Takes: "Firing Generals for Loyalty?!" with Rep. Seth Moulton

Release Date: June 15, 2025
Host: Bill Kristol
Guest: Representative Seth Moulton, Massachusetts

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Bulwark on Sunday, host Bill Kristol engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Representative Seth Moulton. The discussion navigates through the tumultuous events of recent weeks, focusing on the politicization of the U.S. military, the firing of high-ranking generals, and broader national security concerns.

Firing of Generals and Military Politicization

Key Discussion Points:

• Recent Firings: Rep. Moulton addresses the controversial dismissal of eight senior generals by Secretary of Defense Hegseth, emphasizing their lack of clear justification. Notably, the firing of CQ Brown, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, is highlighted as politically motivated and racially driven.

  Seth Moulton [07:25]: "Hegseth fired him without thinking why. Because he's black."

• Impact on Military Morale: The conversation delves into how these actions have sown distrust within the military ranks, leading to potential resignations and a decline in morale.

  Bill Kristol [09:02]: "That is a really terrible truth. And also to send a signal that ... implicitly that they will reward..."

• Historical Context: Comparing the current administration's actions to past administrations, Moulton underscores the unprecedented nature of politicizing the military to this extent.

  Seth Moulton [07:25]: "That's exactly what Trump is trying to do. He's never had any respect for what soldiers ..."

National Security and Foreign Policy Concerns

Key Discussion Points:

• China and Iran Policies: Moulton, a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee and president of the Democratic Party, expresses his strategic concerns regarding China’s rise in biotech and military advancements. He also outlines the complexities surrounding Iran's nuclear ambitions and the U.S.'s approach to preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.

  Seth Moulton [31:25]: "Iran should not have a nuclear weapon. ... We don't want America to get bogged down in a war in the Middle East."

• Military Modernization vs. Politicization: The debate between modernizing the military with advanced technologies versus maintaining traditional military assets is explored. Moulton criticizes the administration’s approach, which he believes hampers effective modernization efforts.

  Seth Moulton [07:09]: "But there's no justification for it. ... it's very different today."

Impact on Government Agencies and Biomedical Research

Key Discussion Points:

• Cuts to Critical Agencies: The episode highlights the severe budget cuts to essential government agencies, including the National Nuclear Security Administration and biomedical research institutions like Harvard. Moulton warns of a significant brain drain and the long-term detrimental effects on national security and medical advancements.

  Seth Moulton [20:06]: "It's a real problem for our competitiveness and for our national security."

• Consequences for Veterans and Public Services: Moulton discusses how reduced funding affects veterans' healthcare, the VA system, and other public services, leading to longer wait times and decreased quality of care.

  Seth Moulton [27:54]: "A lot of these vicious cuts ... are going to start rearing their heads."

Political Accountability and Congressional Oversight

Key Discussion Points:

• Secretary Hegseth’s Incompetence: The guest criticizes Secretary of Defense Hegseth for his inability to provide clear answers during hearings and his refusal to follow legal protocols, raising concerns about accountability within the administration.

  Seth Moulton [12:30]: "He just completely lied about that when it came to putting it on an unclassified platform."

• Role of Congress: Moulton emphasizes the importance of congressional oversight in holding the administration accountable and urges members of both parties to exhibit political courage to effect positive change.

  Seth Moulton [37:34]: "We need to find a lot more political courage in Washington to do the right thing because the stakes are incredibly high."

Future Implications and Call to Action

Key Discussion Points:

• Talent Drain and Military Effectiveness: The discussion addresses the growing fear among potential and current military personnel about serving under a politicized leadership, which could deter talented individuals from joining or remaining in the armed forces.

  Seth Moulton [19:50]: "A talent drain in the US Military ... is a significant risk in and of itself."

• Strategic Recommendations: Moulton advocates for maintaining an apolitical military, investing in modernization, and safeguarding critical research and public services to ensure national security and competitiveness.

  Seth Moulton [37:34]: "I keep doing this job because I do think it's important ... these questions could really influence their future."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the critical role that responsible congressional oversight plays in navigating the current administration's challenges. Rep. Seth Moulton reinforces his commitment to addressing these pressing issues to secure a safer and more prosperous future for the nation.

Bill Kristol [39:30]: "Very well said. And Seth, thank you for everything you've done..."

Notable Quotes:

• Seth Moulton [07:25]: "Hegseth fired him without thinking why. Because he's black."
• Seth Moulton [19:50]: "A talent drain in the US Military ... is a significant risk in and of itself."
• Bill Kristol [39:30]: "Very well said. And Seth, thank you for everything you've done..."

This episode of Bulwark on Sunday provides a thorough examination of the intersection between politics and the military, highlighting the urgent need for accountability and strategic foresight in national security matters.