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- [00:02]
Unknown Speaker A
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- [01:01]
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- [02:02]
Andrew Egger
Andrew Egger with the Bulwark. We've got an interesting one for you today. The President has been at odds with the State of California with various protesters and rioters in Los Angeles this week. Protests have spread related to various ICE enforcement actions from Los Angeles to other cities. And we're going into a weekend where there's the possibility, at least of more clashes in the nation's capital as the President plans big military parade on Flag Day on his birthday this Saturday. We've got an interesting guy to talk to about a lot of that Stuff. Nathan Sage, who is a Senate candidate on the Democratic side in the increasingly red state of Iowa. He's an interesting guy in a whole lot of ways and I'm glad to have him on to talk about this stuff with me today. Nathan, thanks for coming on today.
- [02:51]
Nathan Sage
Thanks for having me.
- [02:52]
Andrew Egger
Andrew, let me start before we jump into the issues. You made a bit of a splash on social media when you first launched a few weeks ago here, but I'm sure there's a lot of people who have not heard much about you, maybe people who don't know you from Adam. Why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself and about your campaign before we get into it?
- [03:08]
Nathan Sage
Yeah, I'm a kid from a trailer park in Mason City, Iowa. Originally, I served in the Marine Corps and the army, did three fun filled tours in Iraq, put my way through college with my GI Bill, worked nights to do that, got into radio for a short time as well. So I did radio, worked in news, worked in sports, got to call a few state championship games. Cool, cool things like that. And then, you know, work with small businesses in the radio and then eventually to where I am as the executive director of the Knoxville Chamber of Commerce. And I really understand the correlation between what businesses are going through in Main street in rural America and how poverty was for growing up for me and my family and how it still is for a lot of people. And so for me, running to work, fight for the working class, because I am one of the working class, I know how hard they have it and want to give them a bigger piece of the pie because I feel like, you know, there's a lot of people in this world that are suffering and we need to do a little bit more of a better job for, especially for people here in Iowa.
- [04:04]
Andrew Egger
Yeah, yeah. Personal disclosure for me, right off the top. I've been interested in talking to Nathan since he launched, in part because I'm a big Iowa guy. My whole extended family's from Iowa. I have an uncle who's a Lutheran pastor in Knoxville there. So it's, you know, you gotta represent Knoxville, Iowa. So let me just get into this. Let me start. I wanted to ask about some of this unrest that we've seen in US Cities this week, particularly in Los Angeles. You're a former Marine yourself. You have castigated the President for getting Marines involved in a law enforcement matter in la. What have you seen from the protests this week and what have you made of the White House's response?
- [04:37]
Nathan Sage
You know, obviously it's kind of you got to look at it through different lenses. It seems like one lens, there's one way you see it, the other, the other lens is another way. And I think either way, either lens, there's people that are upset about, you know, ICE agents going in and raiding places and taking people and the way they're going about it. So they're standing up and using their First Amendment right to protest. Now, can we say that those protests, some of them, are going to get out of hand or are not as peaceful as they should be? Absolutely. That happens all the time. But I also think that what we're seeing in this country and what we're seeing with Donald Trump specifically, is an overreach. You know, it should be a governor and a mayor who say, don't bring in troops to the president, saying, we need to bring in troops. And then when they bring in Marines, like, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. I think it's more of Donald Trump's wishes to have the biggest hammer he can to hammer home his ideology and his agenda. And I think that's what he's usually using the Marine Corps as and his troops as. As a political theater. And I think it's insanely wrong. And it's a dangerous situation when you have Marines who are trained to fight and kill going against protesters and things like that, because it's. To me, it's potentially adding fuel to the fire.
- [05:54]
Andrew Egger
I wanted to ask as well, about the White House's rhetoric going into this weekend's military parade in Washington, D.C. president Trump made some pretty unequivocal comments on Tuesday. He said, we're gonna celebrate big on Tuesday. If any protesters wanna come out, they will be met with very big force. And Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt walked those comments back later. She said, Trump supports peaceful protest. It's stupid to suggest otherwise. What's your reaction to all of that?
- [06:16]
Nathan Sage
I think it's interesting to say that he. He supports peaceful protests. His history that we've seen, he doesn't seem to like any protest or anything, especially against him. And when it's his birthday, I think he takes it a lot. He'll take it a little bit more personal than. Than before. So I am a little bit worried about how. How people are going to be treated even if they are being peaceful. You know, like I said, he used the Marine Corps kind of as a hammer or as a theatrical. Theatrical prop. And I think that's what we'll see more of if his birthday parade doesn't go. Go the way that that he necessarily wants it. And it's just. It's kind of a sensitive situation, and I wish that he could understand that. You know, there's a lot of people that disagree with him. Just because they're protesting doesn't mean really much other than they're not happy what's going on. And to try to incite it or create it and turn it into something bigger than it needs to be, I think is insanely wrong.
- [07:10]
Andrew Egger
Yeah. During moments like this, when there's both a lot of peaceful protesting happening, and then there's also places where things are deteriorating into rioting and disorder, a lot of times you see a lot of discourse on the Democratic side about what the best way is to respond to all that. You've seen a few different approaches from Democrats this week. California Governor Gavin Newsom made a big speech where he unequivocally condemned any violence that was happening, but also said Trump's actions had made that situation, that disorder, worse. Yet. Senator John Fetterman, he came out, he described some of what's happening as anarchy and true chaos. And he said, Democrats, quote, lose the moral high ground when we refuse to condemn setting cars on fire, destroying buildings, and assaulting law enforcement. How do you see that conversation that's playing out among Democrats? And where do you weigh in?
- [07:52]
Nathan Sage
It's interesting because it's like, sometimes people speak up when they should, and sometimes they don't speak up when they should. And I think the message should be the same all the time. Like, we don't want to see burning buildings. We don't want to see cars on fire. We don't want to see the violence that we're seeing. We don't want to see it after a Super bowl parade, either. We don't want to see it in Ferguson. We don't want to see it in a lot of other areas of the country where we've seen it. And I think you should be talking about it the same way in each and every time. But I think this situation specifically is being highlighted just because of what it is. I think it's being turned into more because it is involving ICE and it is involving deportation and ratings of people and taking people from their homes and all of that. So I think from a Democratic perspective, I think you want to empathize with people. You want to understand what they're going through and why they're where they're feeling that way. And I feel like a lot of people have a right to feel anger or upset of seeing their family being taken away. So when you have those feelings, you have to understand the reaction of feelings and how that's going to react. Now, do I. Do I think that the violence and all that is okay? No, absolutely not. But like I said before, bringing in Marines or bringing in military in exchange is just kind of turning that into a bigger, worse situation than it needs to be. Let the police do their job, you know, and especially from the Republican side of things, you guys, let the governor, let the states take care of their business, let the governor decide what goes on, what the mayor decide. The federal government shouldn't be coming in and creating more panic and chaos in a situation that's already volatile.
- [09:30]
Andrew Egger
So obviously a lot of this stuff, at least on the protest front, is playing out right now pretty remotely from Iowa. I've spent a lot of time there over the years. I don't know if Des Moines ever gets particularly major protests. At the same time, obviously, there is a substantial migrant population in the state of Iowa. Are the voters that you're going after thinking about these things much or watching these things on?
- [09:48]
Nathan Sage
Yeah, I think everybody across the country is watching and seeing what's going on and seeing the reaction. And I think a lot of people across the country, including Iowa, are watching it from a obviously like 10,000 foot view, right. And looking down on it and going, what is going on? But at the same time, I think a lot of people are worried across the country, across Iowa about ICE and about the raids and coming into our communities. And we know that. I think a lot of Iowans feel like it's a matter of time before that happens and before we see them in the streets or see them here. And. And so I think they're almost kind of gauging how the proper reaction is to be based on that. So I don't know if it's necessarily a campaign issue, more of like a moral issue, more of where you stand as a person. And like you mentioned, for me, weighing in, it's because I'm a Marine and I know the training that we go through. I know how we talk. I know you ask a Marine what makes the grass grow, they can tell you what makes the grass grow. And that's the mentality that we have. And you're bringing that into a situation, again, that is potentially pouring fuel on the fire. So I see it a little bit different than out of a different lens than I think that other candidates or other people in Iowa. And I don't know if it will necessarily be a campaign issue, more of what we need to do as far as immigration, what we need to do as far as borders, what we need to do as far as that, that's more the campaign issue. And we've already seen a lot of people ask me questions regarding that. And that's on point with that. But I think in general, the riots and the protests are not necessarily a campaign issue until it, until it does affect Iowans directly here on an everyday basis.
- [11:30]
Andrew Egger
Yeah. Let me go off on a bit of a sidebar here, something I wasn't originally planning on asking about cause we didn't know was happening. But President Trump had a tweet out, or whatever you' call it, a post on Truth Social out this morning that was kind of seemingly unexpectedly walking back or at least walking in a different direction. Some of these actions they've taken. He said our great farmers and people in the hotel and leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is taking very good longtime workers away from them, with those jobs being almost impossible to replace. He says a few other things. We must protect our farmers, but get the criminals out of the usa. Changes are coming. What do you make of this kind of swerve from the president, at least seemingly more, what's the word you'd say, more sympathetic to some of the concerns of farmers and business that rely on the labor of undocumented immigrants than at least we've seen from him in the past.
- [12:22]
Nathan Sage
I think it's very interesting. Obviously, there were raids recently in Omaha, Nebraska as well, so maybe got the attention of a little bit more people. It is interesting because it is night and day from what he sounded like. And so it's very hard to trust and believe how he's talking. And I think overall, when you look at who has been taken by ice, I don't think there has been a lot of criminals per se. Criminals per se. I think that they up the amount of people that they need, they want the arrest amount they wanted. And I think that that's the chaos that we've seen from that. But it's it almost weird to say this total two different things. But it almost reminds me of tariffs, how it's like lights on, lights off every other day. That's what it kind of feels like. And it's kind of almost like a puppet master playing with a toy is what it, what it comes off as. Just in a quick response to me to this.
- [13:15]
Andrew Egger
Yeah, yeah. So let me, let me ask about the campaign a little more broadly. I was one of these Midwest states that was formerly pretty purple has now trended Strongly red during the kind of political realignment of the Trump years. What goes into your decision as a Democrat to run into this sort of fight in a state that Donald Trump just won by 13 points?
- [13:31]
Nathan Sage
You know, when I look at it, I think I always tell everybody Trump won Iowa because he told everybody and he promised that we were going to make life more affordable. We're going to lower the cost of groceries, we were going to make it easier for working class individuals. Now, have we seen that? No. People are still struggling. They're trying to figure out things. And when you have doge taking away certain programs that people depend on, it doesn't help that out. And I believe that, you know, the correlation between Democrats and Republicans that everybody can get on this page of is we all want a better life than what we're living, especially working class individuals that are doing every single day, working every single day they can to put food on the table, businesses to keep their lights on, doing all they can to make their lives instead of surviving but thriving is what they want. And we're not doing that. And that's why I came out. You know, that's why I feel like I connect with so many people, not just, not just from that economic populist perspective, but also I speak how people like Trump speaks a certain way. He learned how to speak the language. That's how we talk. That's how I talk. I cuss, I not scared to tell anybody bluntly how I feel about things. And I think that's, at the end of the day, cuts through again. Both parties going like, we're tired of this world that we're living in. We're tired of seeing this drama on tv. We're tired of everything not going our way, and we want to stand up and fight for what we believe in. We're all Americans. We're all in this together. And if we can make it where life's a little bit more affordable, a little bit better every day, we can really do a lot in this country for the economy and just in general for a lot of people. And so that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Because sometimes you just got to stand up and fight and say, you know what? Enough's enough. We keep seeing the rich get richer and the poor get poor. We keep blaming the poor instead of blaming a lot of people that are pulling the strings at the top. And. And we need to do something different. And I think, again, that cuts through every cut to the core to everybody, like, yeah, we need a better Life in America. This is one of the wealthiest countries in the world and we need to make sure that people understand that we are not getting a fair deal and we want a fair deal. And that's what I'm fighting for.
- [15:28]
Andrew Egger
So to have a real shot in this race, you would need to be able to peel off quite a few voters who maybe have voted for Democrats in their lifetimes, but have gotten used to voting red at least for a few cycles. Now you're just talking a little bit there about how a lot of that is just sort of affect. A lot of that is just kind of the way you talk about things and just being sincere and coming across as yourself while also being looking like these people and talking like these people and all of that. How about on the policy side of things, are there specific pain points that you look at as places that you think Republicans have gotten crosswise of their own voters here and that you hope to be able to hammer on?
- [16:05]
Nathan Sage
Well, I think in general, I think economic populace helps with both sides. But I think, you know, I'm for secure borders, right? I believe, I believe I tell everybody, you know, when it comes to secure borders, I lock my doors at night. We all lock our doors at night. Why do we do that? We don't want random people coming in our house that we don't know. We don't know what they're doing. So I'm absolutely for secure borders. But I also on the other side of it is understand that the process to become a citizen in this country is a little harder than a lot of people think and it's a little more expensive than a lot of people think. And I knew people personally in the military who joined the military specifically to help them get a better chance at, at becoming a United States citizen. So I am on the side of secure borders. You know, I look at, I think all of us kind of want that big money out of politics. I think that's a big issue that a lot of people agree on. I am, I am for the second Amendment being in the military. I do believe people should have the right to own guns. Now I am more for common sense gun laws, but at the same time I do believe that, you know, the second amendment should not be infringed on. But in general there's more that bring Republicans to Democrats together than there is more is is against go back to economic populace or go back to like even what Doge is doing, right? Trying to make the government more efficient. I think there's a lot of people in this on the Democrat side and Republican side that agree. Yeah. The government has had issues with fraud, waste and abuse and spending way more than they should in certain areas are doing this. I agree. Like, you should be taking a look at fraud, waste. We should be taking a look at where the, where the money's really going. We should definitely be doing that. And I think at the same time, you start at the top of the biggest part of the budget and you work your way down instead of just taking a chainsaw to it like we saw happening. And when you cut programs here and you cut random things here and you cut over here, it creates chaos. It creates people not knowing what way to look. I have a friend that's been a VA nurse for 19 years and she's terrified that she's going to get fired and she voted for Trump. And it's just this look of like, there's more that we can agree on if we just have conversations and understand. Like, I think the biggest problem in general, again, is how people talk. I think Democrats have had this big problem of talking to Republicans in a manner that is either condescending or like they're stupid or like they don't understand what's going on. And I think I'm a real guy and I think that's why I can cut those lines. It's like, listen, we're all in this together. Let's have these conversations. Let's ask questions. Don't you want a better life? Don't you want to get here? Don't we want to do this? That's how we get to a better place in this country is to have difficult conversations from both sides and understand that we're all in this together.
- [18:41]
Andrew Egger
Nathan Sage, running for Senate in Iowa. Thank you for coming on to talk about a lot of this stuff today. Appreciate your time.
- [18:46]
Nathan Sage
Appreciate you having me, Andrew.
- [18:48]
Andrew Egger
All right. And thanks to all of you out there who are watching. We hope you will subscribe to our feed. We hope you'll head over to the bulwark.com to get a lot of a lot more stuff out of our written products. Thank you all for watching and we'll see you time next next time. Trip planner by Expedia. You were made to have strong opinions about sand. We were made to help you and your friends find a place on the beach with a pool and a marina and a waterfall and a soaking tub. Expedia made to travel.