Bulwark Takes: Episode Summary – "Gabbard and Ratcliffe’s Text Fiasco Hearing Was An Absurd Denial Fest"

Release Date: March 25, 2025

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Sam Stein and Tim Miller delve into the highly charged hearing involving Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe. The hearing centered on controversial revelations from an Atlantic article by Jeffrey Goldberg, which exposed a Signal group chat where high-ranking officials discussed sensitive military operations in Yemen. The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the hearing's proceedings, the denials presented by the witnesses, and the broader implications for national security and administrative accountability.

Overview of the Hearing

The episode opens with Sam Stein introducing the context of the hearing: Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe, among other Trump officials, were questioned about their participation in a private Signal group chat that allegedly discussed strategic military strikes in Yemen. This revelation stems from Jeffrey Goldberg’s investigative piece in The Atlantic, which has sparked intense scrutiny and debate within political circles.

Key Discussions and Denials

Tim Miller provides insight into the dynamics of the hearing, emphasizing the administration's consistent denial of any classified information being shared in the Signal chat. He comments, “The White House keeps calling him a liar and the people testifying today keep kind of denying that there was any secretive or sensitive information on this text chain” (02:47).

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the reluctance to disclose the contents of the chat. When Senator Jack Reed presses Gabbard and Ratcliffe on whether the messages should be publicly released, both evade definitive answers:

• Jack Reed (02:47): "Would you have any problems with him releasing everything?"
• Tulsi Gabbard (02:55): "I don't feel I can answer that question here."
• John Ratcliffe (03:25): "That wouldn't be classified information."

Responses from Gabbard and Ratcliffe

The hosts scrutinize the evasive responses from both witnesses:

• Tulsi Gabbard consistently deflects questions about the nature of her phone usage and the specifics of the group chat. When asked about whether she was using a private or government phone, she states, “I won't speak to this because it's under review by the National Security Council” (09:40).
• John Ratcliffe admits to being part of the Signal group chat but maintains that no classified information was shared. When pressed about legal liabilities for Jeffrey Goldberg, he responds, “I think you're asking for a legal answer that I'm not able to give” (03:54).

Sam Stein highlights Gabbard's nervous demeanor and lack of preparedness, noting, “She just seemed like somebody that was very much in over her head” (11:30). Tim Miller adds, “It was just preposterous” (04:51), criticizing Ratcliffe’s inability to recall specific details despite his role as CIA Director.

Administration's Handling and Accountability

The episode critiques the administration's approach to handling the situation, pointing out the inconsistency in their denials. While top officials publicly warn Pentagon staff about Signal’s security vulnerabilities, key figures like the Secretary of Defense are allegedly using the app to communicate sensitive war plans. Sam observes, “The Pentagon people that worked for him... were warning about the Signal app itself” (08:09).

Furthermore, the hosts discuss the political fallout, mentioning that two top Democrats are calling for the resignation of Pete Hegseth and Mike Waltz due to their involvement:

• Sam Stein (17:50): “The two top Democrats have called for Pete Hegseth and Mike Waltz to resign.”

Implications for National Security

The conversation underscores the potential risks to national security stemming from these communications. Tim Miller draws parallels to irresponsible behavior, stating, “the chain begins with Waltz asking everybody... [and] he probably should get a heaping of blame for that” (16:00). The hosts express concern over the administration's inability to manage internal protocols, with Sam noting, “If you have a government phone, only certain apps can be downloaded...” (09:32).

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

In their concluding remarks, Sam Stein and Tim Miller emphasize the administration's flawed handling of the situation, marked by denial and lack of transparency. Sam speculates on the future of accountability, stating, “None of it is going to happen here” (07:33), while Tim questions the sustainability of the administration’s stance: “I just don't know how that's sustainable” (15:12).

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the broader implications for government integrity and national security, urging listeners to consider the long-term effects of such administrative failures.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein (00:29): “We were obsessing over yesterday.”

• Tim Miller (01:14): “He smartly used a lot of discretion... but the White House keeps calling him a liar.”

• Jack Reed (02:47): “Would you approve that for public release?”

• Tulsi Gabbard (05:42): “The information was not classified.”

• John Ratcliffe (03:25): “That wouldn't be classified information. I know the context of what that is...”

• Mark Warner (06:02): “Would you consider that classified information?”

• John Ratcliffe (17:09): “I communicated the name of a CIA officer not operating undercover. Completely appropriate.”

These quotes capture the essence of the hearing’s contentious atmosphere and the administration's defensive stance.

Conclusion

This episode of Bulwark Takes provides a critical examination of the recent hearing involving Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe, highlighting significant concerns about transparency, accountability, and national security within the current administration. Through detailed analysis and incisive commentary, Sam Stein and Tim Miller shed light on the complexities and implications of the Signal group chat controversy, urging listeners to remain vigilant about the integrity of government operations.