Gov. Cox Preaches Peace. Trump Demands Revenge

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes

Episode: Gov. Cox Preaches Peace. Trump Demands Revenge

Date: September 14, 2025
Host: Will Salatan (The Bulwark)

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Episode Overview

This episode examines sharply contrasting responses from two prominent Republicans to the recent, shocking assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk in Utah. Host Will Salatan compares Utah Governor Spencer Cox’s call for unity and the rejection of political violence on all sides, with Donald Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric blaming only the left and calling for revenge. Throughout, Salatan underscores how these divergent messages from Republicans have deep implications for political violence in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Assassination of Charlie Kirk and Immediate Reactions

• Will Salatan begins by noting the emotional shock and anger following the sniper attack and murder of Charlie Kirk in Utah.
  • [00:00] “By now everybody knows that Charlie Kirk…was shot by a sniper, and everybody’s pretty shocked.”

2. Governor Cox’s Broad Call Against Political Violence

• Governor Spencer Cox, a conservative Republican, responds by condemning political violence on all sides, not singling out any one political faction.
  • [00:30] Cox: “We've had political assassinations recently in Minnesota...an attempted assassination on the governor of Pennsylvania, and...on a presidential candidate and former President of the United States.”
• Salatan interprets Cox’s message as recognizing violence across the spectrum, not just from one side.
  • [00:53] “Cox is sending a message that…violence is not just a left wing problem. It’s a problem of political violence on both sides.”

3. Trump’s Response: Exclusive Blame and Escalatory Rhetoric

• Donald Trump’s reaction is to blame only “radical left” actors for political violence, omitting any mention of violence perpetrated by the right.
  • [01:27] Trump: “Radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives.”
  • Trump’s list of victims includes himself and other conservatives, all at the hands of the left, ignoring violence against or by others.

4. Contrasting Philosophies on Calling for Peace

• Salatan highlights Governor Cox’s appeal to all Americans—right, left, MAGA, progressive—to avoid hatred and not return violence with violence.
  • [02:33] Cox: “I desperately call on every American, Republican, Democrat, liberal, progressive, conservative, MAGA, all of us, to please, please, please…follow what Charlie taught me.”
• Trump, when encouraged on Fox to send a message for unity and peace, refuses to equate “radicals on both sides.”
  • [03:20] Trump: “The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical 'cuz they don’t want to see crime. The radicals on the left are the problem and they’re vicious and they’re horrible and they’re politically savvy.”
• Salatan notes that even when handed a chance to lower the temperature, Trump doubles down on partisan rhetoric.

5. Human Connection versus Dehumanization

• On ABC News, Cox makes a broader plea for Americans to see the humanity in their opponents.
  • [04:03] Cox: “Are we going to hate our neighbor? Are we going to return violence with violence, or are we going to find a different path?...When you stop having a human connection with someone you disagree with, it becomes a lot easier to commit violence.”
• Trump, by contrast, labels Democrats as “sick” and intent on destroying the country.
  • [04:31] Trump: “Here’s the problem the Democrats have. They’re sick. There’s something wrong with them. They want to…destroy the country.”

6. Pathways Forward: Dialogue or Revenge?

• Governor Cox shares a story of cross-party dialogue and the search for “better angels.”
  • [04:55] Cox: “Republicans and Democrats in my little town are getting together to have a discussion…to find their better angels again.”
• Trump escalates by suggesting violence as a solution.
  • [05:31] Trump: “We have radical left lunatics out there and we just have to beat the hell out of them.”
• When pressed on Fox whether revenge should be avoided (as Kirk would have wanted), Trump again deflects, suggesting that ballots as a means of revenge are futile because elections are rigged.
  • [06:09] Fox Host: “So is the message…not to have revenge…Charlie Kirk would not want revenge.”
  • [06:24] Trump: “You want revenge at the voter. That’s where to go. But unfortunately, we don’t have so many ballot boxes because they have mail in voting which is totally rigged.”

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Will Salatan (on Cox’s message):

  • [00:53] “Cox is sending a message that what happened…is not just a left wing problem. It’s a problem of political violence on both sides.”

• Governor Spencer Cox:

  • [02:33] “I desperately call on every American…to please, please, please…follow what Charlie taught me.”
  • [04:03] “Are we going to hate our neighbor?...Are we going to find a different path?”
  • [04:55] “At some point we have to find an off ramp. …[Republicans and Democrats]…are getting together…to find their better angels again.”

• Donald Trump:

  • [01:27] “Radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives.”
  • [03:20] “The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical 'cuz they don’t want to see crime. The radicals on the left are the problem…”
  • [04:31] “The Democrats…they’re sick…they want to destroy the country.”
  • [05:31] “We have radical left lunatics out there and we just have to beat the hell out of them.”
  • [06:24] “Voting which is totally rigged.”

• Will Salatan (summarizing the danger):

  • [06:25] “If you tell people…the other side is evil and…can't be defeated through the political process, guess what some of them are going to do? They're going to resort to violence.”

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Memorable Moments

• The powerful contrast between Governor Cox’s genuine, repeated pleas for all Americans to resist hate, and Trump’s pointed refusal to condemn violence on the right, even when prompted, stands out as the emotional core of the episode.
• Trump’s “beat the hell out of them” line is highlighted and questioned—does he mean it as incitement or metaphorically? This moment ([05:31]) crystallizes the podcast’s concern about dangerous rhetoric.
• The closing takeaway from Salatan underscores the fundamental difference—both men are conservative Republicans, but one is trying to heal, the other, intentionally or not, encourages cycles of revenge and violence.

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Conclusion

Through direct comparison, the episode demonstrates how voices from the same political party are responding in radically different ways to a moment of national instability: one emphasizing mutual humanity and dialogue (Cox), the other fueling division and resentment, even in the face of tragedy (Trump). The Bulwark frames the episode as a warning about the power of rhetoric and the urgent need to reject cycles of political hatred and violence.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's Will Salatan from the Bulwark. So by now everybody knows that Charlie Kirk, conservative activist, was murdered in Utah on Wednesday. He was shot by a sniper, and everybody's pretty shocked. And there's been a lot of very angry reaction. I want to show you two of those reactions. Not a Democrat and a Republican, but two Republicans, Donald Trump and Spencer Cox, the Governor of Utah. Here's Governor Cox speaking to the media on Wednesday.

[B]

We've had political assassinations recently in Minnesota. We had an attempted assassination on the governor of Pennsylvania, and we had an attempted assassination on a presidential candidate and former President of the United States.

[A]

So Cox named three recent assassinations or attempted assassinations. Trump, two legislators in Minnesota and the Governor of Pennsylvania. Those targets in Minnesota and Pennsylvania were Democrats. Cox is sending a message that what happened to Charlie Kirk is not just a left wing problem. It's a problem of political violence on both sides. Now watch what Trump said on the same day about the same attack on Charlie Kirk.

[C]

From the attack on my life in Butler, Pennsylvania last year, which killed a husband and father, to the attacks on ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a health care executive in the streets of New York, to the shooting of House Majority Leader Steve Scalise and three others, radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives.

[A]

So Trump's list of people who have been Targeted is himself, ICE agents, the CEO of UnitedHealth, and the Republican Majority Leader in the House, all committed by people on the left or aimed at people on the right. And Trump says the problem is specifically radical left violence. He's erasing all the attacks committed against people on the left or, or by people on the right. Governor Cox, a conservative Republican, does not erase those attacks. He says MAGA Republicans, not just the radical left, need to reject violence, which he says is what Charlie Kirk taught him.

[B]

And I desperately call on every American, Republican, Democrat, liberal, progressive, conservative, maga, all of us, to please, please, please.

[A]

Follow.

[B]

What Charlie taught me.

[A]

So on Friday, Trump was on Fox and Friends, and the interviewers tried to get him to say the same thing. Governor Cox said, a message to people on the right as well as the left. Watch what happened.

[D]

What do we do about our country with that? Because we have radicals on the right as well. We have radicals on the left. People have gotten are watching all of these videos and cheering. Some people are cheering that Charlie was killed. How do we fix this country? How do we come back together?

[E]

I'll tell you something that's going to get me in Trouble, but I couldn't care less. The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical cuz they don't want to see crime. The radicals on the left are the problem and they're vicious and they're horrible and they're politically savvy.

[A]

That was a setup for Trump. That is Fox News setting him up to tell everybody on the left and the right to chill out. And he wouldn't say it. He defended the radical right, which as Governor Cox pointed out, has killed or attempted to kill Democrats. But Trump ignored that and he said, I couldn't care less. Back to Governor Cox. Here's what he said on Sunday in an interview with ABC News.

[B]

Every one of us has to make a decision. Are we going to hate our neighbor? Are we going to hate the other side? Are we going to return violence with violence, or are we going to find a different path? He again said, when you stop having a human connection with someone you disagree with, it becomes a lot easier to commit violence.

[A]

That's a good message. Don't hate. Don't teach people to hate. What does Trump say about that? Here's what he told Fox.

[E]

Here's the problem the Democrats have. They're sick. There's something wrong with them. They want to give away money to this and that and that. Destroy the country.

[A]

They're sick. They want to destroy the country. Exactly the kind of rhetoric the governor was warning against. So how do we get out of this, this cycle of hate and violence? Here's the advice from Governor Cox.

[B]

We can always point the finger at the other side. And at some point we have to find an off ramp. Had a friend in a, in a small city in Utah who said we're getting together. The Republicans and Democrats in my little town are getting together to have a discussion tonight, last night, just to find a way to find their better angels again.

[A]

Sounds like a healthy message. Don't hate the other side. Get together, talk, find your better angels. But Trump has a totally different attitude. Here's what he said on Thursday.

[C]

What is your message to other conservative influencer, podcasters, TV hosts? That they might be targeted by some of these radical groups? We have to be brave in life, you know, in all fairness. We have a life and we have to be brave. I probably shouldn't be out here talking to you in all fairness, but we will be brave. And we have a great country. We have radical left lunatics out there and we just have to beat the hell out of them.

[A]

Beat the hell out of them. Wow. But Trump doesn't really mean violence. Right. Surely he just means you should beat the left in elections. Right. Let's see what he said about that on Fox.

[E]

So is the message, too, to the right, the people that are going to go, I want revenge, not to have revenge. Charlie Kirk would not want revenge. You want revenge at the voter. That's where to go. But unfortunately, we don't have so many ballot boxes because they have mail in.

[C]

Voting which is totally rigged.

[A]

Whoa. So Trump's message is, number one, you should seek revenge, and number two, you can't get revenge at the ballot box because the left rigs the elections. That is exactly what Governor Cox was warning about. If you tell people that the other side is evil and you tell them that the other side can't be defeated through the political process, guess what some of them are going to do? They're going to resort to violence. Again, this is not a difference between Democrats and Republicans. Trump and Cox are both conservative Republicans. The difference between them is one guy is doing what he can to prevent more violence, and the other guy is doing what he can to encourage it. See you next time.