← Bulwark Takes
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- [00:00]
Sam Stein
Packages by Expedia. You were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights, hotels and hammocks for less. Expedia made to travel. Hey, guys. Me. Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. And I'm joined by Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. He is kind enough to talk about. Well, when we booked this, we were going to talk about Trump's military parade. But like all things, there's like four or five existential stories.
- [00:29]
Jason Crow
Wake up every morning and decide what we're gonna do the rest of the day these days.
- [00:32]
Sam Stein
Yeah, it's. There's a lot of things that intervened.
- [00:35]
Jason Crow
There's a lot of things. There's a lot of stuff.
- [00:37]
Sam Stein
I appreciate. I appreciate you joining me and us. So, Congressman, let's start with the parade. It's happening. We're recording this on Tuesday. It's happening on Saturday. Tanks are rolling into our dear city. I've seen them. The appetite here is one of, I don't know, how would you put it? It feels very ominous to a degree, but maybe you have a different T.
- [00:58]
Jason Crow
Yeah, well, I mean, there is a cloud. There's an ominous cloud hanging over the city generally. So it's hard to tell whether it's a parade cloud or just the General Trump cloud. Listen, I'm an Army veteran. You know that I love my home branch. It is the best branch in the military BY Far. The 250th anniversary of the, of the army, which we're celebrating on the 14th, which actually precedes the country. Right. We're older than the country, is something to honor. It's something to actually hold up and to celebrate, and I'm going to be celebrating it, too. But there's a right way and a wrong way to do this. And like so many things the administration does, it's overkill. It goes overboard and it loses the forest through the trees, you know, we're going to see.
- [01:41]
Sam Stein
In what ways do you think it's overkill? Is it that he's also celebrating his birthday, or is there something more to it?
- [01:46]
Jason Crow
Well, there is that, and we all know the rubbing. Listen, the 250th anniversary of the Marine Corps is coming up, too. And my guess is they're not going to be rolling tanks past the White House for that one. Right? So, yeah, I mean, there's no coincidence here. The man wants pomp and circumstance and to have his ego stroked on his birthday. There's no doubt about it. We've never done anything remotely like this in the country. Right. We Literally. I mean, I just went for a run down the National Mall yesterday and it's all gated off. There are concrete barricades, they're going to be lining the streets with steel. There are tanks being pre positioned that have been sent by rail from Texas that are in the Navy Yard. This is crazy. This is crazy. And it's going to cost $50 million. They are blowing through money like it's free in this administration. $50 million for a parade, $140 million to send Marines and National Guard to LA. $25 billion for Golden Dome, a missile defense system that nobody asked for. A billion dollars for. Airstrikes against the Houthis, which were completely ineffective. Like money is free and doesn't mean anything apparently to this administration.
- [02:52]
Sam Stein
Now, the. I don't know if I want to call it a trap, but I think for the purpose of this, it's called a trap. It seems like there's a trap being set, frankly, which is this is whole patriotic fervor. We're celebrating 250 anniversary. You know, we have tanks rolling in. We're going to, and Trump's telling, celebrate the victories that we've had, including in World War II, which we've never celebrated before, according to him. And it makes Democrats or puts Democrats in a bit of a binder. At least that's what he wants. In which you, you complain about the cost. You say, well, this is overkill, this is over the top. And he gets to say, you don't want to celebrate our country. How do you navigate what seems to be a fairly obvious trapping set for you?
- [03:33]
Jason Crow
Yeah, well, what I do is I talk about the fact that Trump has repeatedly maligned veterans and our combat soldiers. He's called us suckers and losers. He's refused to go to the cemetery where our brothers and sisters are buried in Europe because it was raining that day. This man has no understanding of selfless service. He has no comprehension of what it means to serve and do something bigger than yourself. And obviously that's why he's throwing a parade on his birthday. He sure as hell wouldn't be doing it if it weren't his birthday. That's my opinion. And listen, that's why I also say honoring these things is important. Right? But there's a right way and wrong way to do it. You know, I just talked about all the money that's being spent on this when, you know, the Secretary of the Navy just went to Guam a couple of weeks ago and visited barracks. And he has initiated a Navy wide review of Barracks because he said they were, they were inexcusable. He was shocked by the state of the barracks. And I've seen that myself in my visits around coasts. Our service members are living in places that nobody should be living in, in some barracks. And this administration literally just took, this is crazy. Literally just took a billion dollars that's specifically earmarked for barracks repair and construction to fix this crisis of housing for our service members. And they're reallocating it for the border. Right. A border that they say is already secure.
- [04:57]
Sam Stein
Yeah.
- [04:59]
Jason Crow
And then all the other money we're spending. So it's crazy. And then they're cutting veterans jobs, they're slashing VA healthcare and services. And I have veterans in my district who are having a hard time even getting appointments and getting through to anybody and they're going to cut another 80,000 jobs at the VA. It's crazy.
- [05:17]
Sam Stein
And then turn around and spend 40 to 50 million on this parade. Trump today was talking about the parade and he had this kind of ominous line about protests. Didn't distinguish between nonviolent and violent protests, just a protest in general. He said, if you show up in protest, we're going to confront you with, you know, forceful, you know, forceful confrontation for the protesters. Obviously that seems well beyond, you know, the law. I think Chris Murphy had a response to being like, he's just trying to intimidate you, show up, make your voices heard, putting, you know, I know you're going to say, yes, do that. But like talk a little bit about in the abstract this idea that protests should be confronted, that you can't protest this. And what would you say to Democrats who are kind of curious about going out on Saturday? Because I know just from talking to them, a lot of them are worried about showing up in D.C. they're going to show up in other cities and there's all these non king protests in other cities, but they are worried about showing up in D.C. well, let's look.
- [06:16]
Jason Crow
At some of the history here, which is really important. You know, when the January 6th insurrectionists were attacking the the Capitol and threatening the lives of me and my colleagues and trying to derail the certification and brutally beating 140 police officers, several of whom later died from their wounds, they slow walked the mobilization of the guard. Then fast track to when there was a protest outside of Lafayette Square protesting him when he wanted the active duty military to clear that out and shoot the protesters. Remember, this is why he, he ended up not liking Chairman Milley, Mark Milley, because Milley said no, right he's not going to do that.
- [06:55]
Sam Stein
And, and as for recounter, Esper recounted that in his book. He said.
- [07:00]
Jason Crow
Exactly.
- [07:01]
Sam Stein
Yeah. So, no, but I get that and I understand there's no, I mean, there's no through line for Trump. It's all about, you know, are the purchase of him or with him. But what is your message to those Democrats who, and they do exist, who say, I don't feel comfortable showing up in Washington D.C. on Saturday?
- [07:17]
Jason Crow
Yeah, I can understand that. I can really understand that. Right. Because so much of what this administration does is about intimidation, is about suppression. When we look at the mobilization of the Guard and sending active duty Marines to la right uninvited, the mayor and the governor have been very clear that they're not needed. There's very questionable legality around this mobilization. They're doing it to send a message. They're doing it to chill protests and dissent. And if somebody disagrees with them, guess what? We have a bigger stick as their message. That's the message. So I understand why some folks would feel uncomfortable and that's why I'm encouraging people to find other ways to honor our army and to find real ways. Go to a veterans nursing home and volunteer, serve a meal, go plant a flag at your local veterans cemetery, go visit a vfw, chip in. You know, service is the best way to honor folks, in my opinion, rather than sitting there and watching a bunch of tanks roll down Pennsylvania Avenue, which by the way, we've learned from Russia, Ukraine that tanks really don't work anymore.
- [08:35]
Sam Stein
You got to use drones, man. Get with it.
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Jason Crow
You know, there's nothing, there's nothing with a shorter lifespan along the forward line of troops in Ukraine the than a tank right now. Right. Seriously, it's nuts. It's nuts.
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Sam Stein
It is nuts. That actually is a good segue to Pete Hegseth who was on on the Hill today talking to the appropriators, asked both about the Ukrainian use of drones, which he had some sort of diplomatic answers, but also about what's happening in LA and the money that's going to that. And I think it was, what, $140 million to deploy this unit to LA. What do you make of Hegseth Post the signal gate scandal now having to deal with this? Obviously very little confidence from Democrats in his ability to do the job and a lot of fear, frankly, that he's just acquiescing to whatever Trump wants with respect to the use of military on American citizens in America's second biggest city.
- [09:27]
Jason Crow
Yeah, well, the man is A disgrace. First of all, most of his senior staff.
- [09:30]
Sam Stein
What do you really think?
- [09:33]
Jason Crow
I'm gonna try not to hold back, Sam, okay? I know I'm.
- [09:37]
Sam Stein
This is YouTube, so you can let it go.
- [09:39]
Jason Crow
It's not. I didn't sleep well last night. Whatever little filter I had is completely gone. Okay? I mean, listen, the man is a disgrace, right? I mean, let's look at this, right? Most of his senior staff have resigned and become disgruntled employees, right? And he said, well, they're disgruntled. Like, well, listen, you hired these people literally weeks ago. Literally weeks ago, you hired these people. I mean, you are disgruntling people at a rapid pace, right? They shut down all media reporting, literally. A right wing blogger and media person known as the MAGA girl who was hired into the DoD resigned and says, this is. This is. I can't use that word. I can't use this word on. This is a circus. Oh, it's a circus. Instead of a blank show, you could use shows. She's like, this is a show like Mega world should be. Should be, you know, up in arms. Because there's no transparency in the dod. Like, how is that a conservative value or even a mega value, that there's no transparency and accountability? And DoD, right. They've called for accountability in DoD and there's not.
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Sam Stein
Right.
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Jason Crow
So no personnel. Nobody's minding the shop. They've shut down any public reporting and transparency. All the guy tends to do is run around and do PT with troops.
- [11:00]
Sam Stein
He does do a lot of that.
- [11:01]
Jason Crow
Yeah, there's a lot of that while he's skipping NATO meetings, by the way, to do that. Listen, I love doing that. I actually PT whenever I have the chance when I'm traveling around with the troops because it's fun and they love it. I love it. It's a good thing to do. But, you know, don't skip a NATO meeting. To do it would be my general guideline, Right? Show up to important meetings that bear on our national security. Should be a, you know, a no brainer. Yeah. And the guy is operating with impunity.
- [11:30]
Sam Stein
Well, that's the thing. It's the impunity, right? It's like.
- [11:34]
Jason Crow
We.
- [11:35]
Sam Stein
This kind of has exposed to a degree how much we just sort of rested on the good intentions of the people that served. Right? Because when it was Esper or anyone else in that role, we were like, well, they're rational people and they will say no. And in this case, we very quickly, within a couple months got to a place where the DoD secretary said, yes, we will send the military. And I want to challenge you a little bit because I think this does raise some real questions for people in your position. The opposition party, which is, I've heard a lot of people say, you know, the situation in la, it's a distraction. They don't want to talk about Medicaid, they don't want to talk about budget cuts and Doge, they want to talk about Elon. They don't want to talk about cutting taxes for the rich. They want to talk about immigration, and they want to have this fight. And I guess there's something to it, right? He pulls better on immigration than he does on the other stuff and so on and so forth. But to a lot of other people, it's not a distraction, it's existential. It really comes down to, like, what we stand for as a country and checks and balances. What do you make of this tension? Is it a distraction?
- [12:38]
Jason Crow
Well, it's really hard for our country right now to actually have nuanced conversations about difficult issues. Right. And so I'm going to try to have one. Right? And this is what I'm going to say is, overwhelmingly, those protesters were peaceful. Overwhelmingly. They said, you know, not in our name. You're abusing our community. You're targeting innocent people and women and children. And I stand by those folks. Was there some violence and property? Yes. Is that unacceptable? Yes. And should law enforcement crack down on that? I saw the pictures. Burning cars, vandalism, people going, you know, going after police. That is unacceptable. Right. But that doesn't represent the vast majority of the people out there that were standing up and exercising their First Amendment right. And local law enforcement has the duty to enforce the laws and to restore order when they need to. And they were doing that. And the mayor is very clear, and the governor was very clear. So this administration was just looking for the opportunity, just chomping at the bit for an opportunity to send troops in and flex its muscle and send a message and intimidate. That's what this is about. This isn't about restoring law and order. It's not about, you know, you know, some kind of rebellion. Right? There are three criteria. There are three instances in which the President can do this, right? An invasion by a foreign nation, a rebellion, or when local law enforcement is unable to perform their duties and restore order. Right. Those are the three criteria by which the President can mobilize the National Guard. None of those three are met here. So that leads us to the obvious conclusion is why. And the why is because they want to intimidate.
- [14:22]
Sam Stein
Well, also, it sounds. And what you're saying is they want to bait you into this argument, which I think is fair. They do. But my question again is, is this something where Democrats should say, fine, bait us like we. This is an argument we have to have.
- [14:38]
Jason Crow
I'm down with that. I'm somebody that feels like if there's something that needs to be said or an argument you need to have, then have it with strength and conviction and don't back down. Right. I mean, so much of this is this perception that Democrats are weak. This isn't my opinion, by the way. This is what data show. Right. Like, there actually was just the poll. They're like, who's strong, who's weak? And being strong and having the strength of convictions and being affirmative matters.
- [15:09]
Sam Stein
Right.
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Jason Crow
And I think people have this perception that we think about things too much and we're too academic and. Yeah, you know what? Okay. If something's right, it's right. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Let's, let's, let's weigh in and have the fight.
- [15:27]
Sam Stein
Yeah, I hear you. All right, Congressman, I appreciate this. Thank you so much. Let us know how your celebration goes on Saturday. Let's get you back on the show, too. Really do appreciate this. Thank you guys for watching the feed as well. We, we get conversations just like this. Cogsman, Jason Crow. Take care, man.
- [15:43]
Jason Crow
Thanks, Sam. Appreciate it.