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- [00:01]
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Tim Miller
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- [01:00]
Tim Miller
Hey everybody, Tim over the Bulwark just got off with my friend Nicole Wallace on deadline White House we also had Mark Elias was on with us. It was a delight to be on with Sally Jenkins of the Atlantic. At the end we discussed the threats to democracy, which Nicole and Mark are so vigilant about. Related analysis surrounding that. We talked about some Trump regrets from Trump voters, including one who gave the guy voted for three times a hearty fuck you when asked by a reporter, an msnow reporter. That was something that we could enjoy. And then we discussed Trump Trump's little birthday party he's throwing for himself in the UFC fight with Sally Jenkins. At the end. In that conversation I talked about the importance of balancing shaming them and attacking them and trying to take back our country with also having fun. And I just think that it's important for the pro democracy coalition to always to not lose sight of that, not lose sight of having fun and drawing people in because people want to be part of a group that is having a good time and sometimes that can get lost in politics since we're talking about such serious matters. And to that end I referenced that as soon as that TV had ended as actually as soon as I finished this YouTube video, I'm going to go enjoy gay pride in New Orleans with my friends. And I thought that that would give me an opportunity to kind of expand on kind of a jokey critique I offered earlier in the week that received some negative feedback from people about pride because pride is important to me and so I don't want people to misunderstand what I was trying to say. I don't have the quote in front of me. But the point was essentially that like maybe we went a little bit too far. Some of the pride stuff during peak woke and you know, maybe not everybody needs to see a rainbow explosion in their face for 30 straight days. You know, we have single day celebrating the Irish. Maybe that's sufficient for celebrating the gays. Just talked about the ways in which there are some excesses, you know, having Lockheed Martin floats, you know, ways in which pride became very corporate and staid. There's element to that I really, I do believe. I think it's important for any mass movement to be joyful. And it's not enough to simply be joyful. Obviously Kamala Harris ran a more joyful campaign to than Donald Trump. But it's an important part of it, right? It's how people get drawn in, it's how people get converted. It's how you can win people over with joyfulness. And so I wanted to just kind of talk about what I mean by that because pride was super important to me. I can remember the first pride I went to vividly after coming out. And it was a little uncomfortable at first, right, because there's some prurient sexy stuff happening at pride, some stuff I hadn't seen before. But after I kind of got over that discomfort, I really, it really started to give me a feeling of being at home of sex, self actualization, of like self confidence, confidence in my own skin. Because at pride, what it's supposed to be about is people being their authentic selves, letting their freak flag fly, being a little different, not necessarily practicing the same thing that gets thrust upon them by popular culture or by corporate culture or by their parents or their church leaders or their political leaders. It was about self expression and self expression without apology and celebrating your ability to be yourself and your neighbor's ability to be themselves and doing it all together. Right? That's what pride is. That's why it's the rainbow flag, right? It's every color, every flavor. Everyone is allowed, everyone is welcome, everyone should be merry together. And if the person in the float in front of you or at the bar next to you is practicing pride in a way that you don't, that you don't personally. If they have a peccadillo that you don't share, that's not a thing to be afraid of or a thing to attack them for. It's a thing to celebrate. That's the fucking Human experience, baby. Like, we're all going to be a little different. And to me, when I first went to Pride, there's this beauty in it, right? That I was like, oh, I'd spent all these years in the closet. I'd spent all these years telling myself what I can't be. And now here I get to be whatever I want to be. And maybe I don't want to be exactly what you want to be, Mr. Pup. But roof, roof, good for you. You should be that. Go do it. Be your full Pup self out there on the parade route. That's why a lot of people say that, like, pride is inappropriate. You get people on the right that, like, will lecture about bringing kids to Pride. I brought tolose to Pride several times. She doesn't understand everything that's going on. You don't answer every question, and that's okay. But. But what she does get is that everybody gets to express themselves authentically here, and that her parents and her family, which is a little different from the other families at school, are celebrated. And we have this day where we are recognized for we are seen. And that, like, second wave of Pride for me. I can remember the first Pride I took her to in San Francisco, and she was in this little rainbow jumper and carrying a rainbow flag. And I just remember thinking about how awesome this is and how welcoming this is and how good it is. And that, I think, is what we should be aspiring for as a country, but as a political movement, not trying to turn it into, oh, you should do this or you should do that, or it has to be like this or it has to be like that, or if you disagree, then you're not welcome. Like, that's not what it is, right? It's about, as long as you accept everyone, you're accepted. So come on, come join the fun. Come put on your rainbow colors and celebrate the full bounty of our society. It's a little earnest for going around and drinking a bunch of vodka sodas, I guess, because there's that part of it, too. I think they kind of go hand in hand together. It's okay to have a little raunchy fun while you're celebrating something that is earnest and meaningful and important. And so circling back, like, when I said went overboard, like, the things that felt outside that spirit, to me, it was kind of the way in which I kind of felt in disagreement with some others from the LGBT activist world over the question of the cake. You know, the gay cake baker that didn't want to bake the gay cake and there's a lot of details to that. And you know, we can argue about the legal, legality and all that, but the point was about the spirit of it. Like, the spirit of pride should not be baked me this fucking cake. Spirit of pride shouldn't be, you must put this rainbow sticker on your restaurant or else we won't come because you don't support us. Like, that's not what it was. It isn't about forcing this upon you, isn't about demanding adherence. It isn't an authoritarian movement where everyone has to, to, you know, put on their rainbow badge or they will be targeted. Like, that's not. That's not pride. Pride is a individual expression of your full self and an honoring of other people expressing their full selves and doing so in a way that is joyful and is full of revelry and full of color and a big fucking gay party. And so that's what I'm gonna go do right now. I appreciate you all very much. Been a long week of content, so I probably won't be back around till I'll probably be back around Sunday night for the stupid UFC fight. We'll see. We'll see how I feel. I'll probably be back around Sunday night or else I'll see y' all on Monday. Appreciate you very much. Happy pride. Stick around for me, Nicole and the rest of the cast of characters. Subscribe to the feed. Do me a solid. Subscribe to the feed. I'd appreciate it. Oh, I have had no luck lately.
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- [09:25]
Mark Elias
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- [09:27]
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- [09:43]
Tim Miller
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- [09:51]
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- [10:21]
Mark Elias
Tim Miller, I made this point yesterday and I'm curious your thoughts on it. I mean, Bill Pulte, I don't know much about him, but he Seems like someone who might actually be like Inspector Cluso, looking for this fraud that Trump keeps talking about. But Jay Clayton knows there isn't any fraud. So does Todd Blanch just talk about the, you know, weaponization? Doesn't quite get at it. It's the absolutely fraudulent deployment of federal law enforcement assets to investigate crimes that the people at the top know don't exist.
- [10:56]
Tim Miller
Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's the state telling you not to believe your lying eyes. Right. You know, they, of course they know it's a lie. I think that's meaningful. And sometimes I wonder if that's true. Right. Does, does it matter if they believe what they say or not, if the outcome is the same? But I think it's meaningful, at least as an insight into what their strategy is going forward. And to Mark's point about Jay Clayton feeling, I guess, like he had to, or maybe he was asked to, I don't know. Maybe we'll find out in a book in many years, go on to CNBC to discuss to throw out an obviously cockamamie theory about California vote fraud, like based on nothing, and then a few hours later being told he's going to be the head of dni. And that's very telling, right? It's very telling. And it's that Trump wants to use the government and the long arm of the state to investigate this stuff, to go after foes and to create doubt. And the other thing that Mark said that I just really agree with is looking to California's example and why it's important they keep calling him California. Similarly to California, Maine takes way too long to count their votes. Maine is having ranked choice voting. We still don't know who the nominee is. And one of the congressional districts there, because they're still counting. Regardless of what you think of personally, any viewers or anybody about whether that system makes sense, be it ranked choice voting or the system that both have where you can mail in ballots later and they still count as long as they're mailed in by Election Day, what that has done is created this environment where they could not be more obvious about what their plan is like. They are laying the groundwork to challenge the mail in ballots in California. And because there are so many seats, as Mark said, you know, he offered, if they lose by eight or 10, maybe they'll find eight or 10 districts. Who knows if they lose by 20. There are 20 districts in California, there are 50. Right. So it kind of doesn't matter how close it is. You can try to challenge the California mail ballots. And I just think that this is a blaring red light that everybody needs to look at. I personally think California should just, should change the rules for how they count votes, not because they're doing anything wrong, but because it creates this long period for bad actors to do shenanigans. If you don't believe that, there has to be other, you know, preparations, which I know Mark and others are working on, you know, to think about how to combat this, because, like, this is what's coming. Like, the fact that the head of TNI went on to make a fabricated claim about California, you know, is because they know what's going to happen in November, and they know that California is the place where they can try to make it seem like there's fraud. And then who knows how that. What happens? Then maybe Mike Johnson decides not to seat the California delegation. I mean, we could speculate, but you know that he did that.
- [13:37]
Mark Elias
He did that to stop.
- [13:38]
Tim Miller
Those are the things that they're at least thinking about. And it's all right in front of our eyes right now.
- [13:43]
Mark Elias
Right? And anyone who thinks that Mike Johnson wouldn't do that, he did it to stop the vote on the release of the Epstein files, which is a bipartisan vote. I mean, he'd already lost Thomas Massie. So the idea that, like, he's going to be some, like, bulwark of and after Propaganda 50, I mean, like, like the California maps, like, to the points all of you are making, that's where the seats will be.
- [14:02]
Tim Miller
I voted for Trump all three terms, to be honest with you. I'm not a big supporter of him at this point. Due to the economy and due to gas prices, due to Epstein files and some other things.
- [14:13]
Mark Elias
You said you'd bring down the grocery prices, literally. I must be the most angry person when I grocery shop because I buy the same things every week and I see it jump every week.
- [14:27]
Tim Miller
If you could pick one word to
- [14:28]
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describe the economy right now, what would
- [14:30]
Tim Miller
that one word be? The gutter. The gutter. It's in the gutter. What would you.
- [14:36]
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If you could talk to President Trump
- [14:38]
Tim Miller
directly right now, what would you tell him?
- [14:40]
SpinQuest Advertiser
Do you want me to really say it on air?
- [14:43]
Tim Miller
I'd say you.
- [14:47]
Mark Elias
F you and your economy is in the gutter. Those are not my words. Those are not the words of anyone with a Biden or a Harris lawn sign in their yards over the last 10 years. Those are people who voted for Donald Trump 18 months ago. And it is not a good sign when your very recent voters and Your political base starts to sound angrier than anyone who thought Democrats should have impeached you all. My disgust with all these people who were saying now what a lot of us have been saying for a decade. I'll deal with that in therapy. But you do see elected Republicans in public interviews articulating the true political reality, which is sort of the other half of the rigging of the elections. That I think is important because you have to get in front of Trump's own voters that he's cheating because Republicans are telling him he's going to lose in a catastrophic political way.
- [15:47]
Tim Miller
Yeah, well, I'm going to do something nice for you here. It's a Friday. I don't think you got to put a pin in your disgust for John Cornyn. I think that you can embrace that and you can enjoy the shot in Freuda, and you can continue to mock him for the voters. I get it. I think that's smart and prudent because it's important. Important to win people over. But John Cornyn said he's gonna oppose Trump in that same interview. He was blunt about how Trump's gonna have a bad two years, though. I don't know. I think maybe John Cornyn's misassessing Donald Trump and what he cares about. Donald Trump might have a fine two years just golfing and redesigning the East Wing and building a big arch, and I don't know. We'll see. He's gonna have a bad two years in the traditional political sense. Things that people, John Cornyn care about, like, they're not gonna pass anything in Congress. He's gonna get investigated. He won't get impeached again. So. So I just. I thought it was pretty striking in that Cornyn interview, though, that he says, basically, well, you know, now I have a little bit more freedom. But the nice thing about being an ex senator, I'm paraphrasing, but he says this, is that ex senators make more money. And it's just like. It's just so gross. You can see these guys, and now they can, like, say a little bit of truth, right? And they're like, I can get a little bit of distance for Trump. I can pick a couple things now where I can finally be my own man instead of just being Trump's doormat. But I can't do too much still, because I want to be able to lobby when it's over. I want to be able to make money still after it's over. It's just. You can understand why Donald Trump so easily ran over big husk of the establishment Republican Party. So, look, I think that there's a lot of anger out there. I think there's a lot of things that voters, that Democrats should be able to channel with voters. I mean, you've got Donald Trump's buddy becoming the first trillionaire today, Elon Musk. They're gonna have the birthday party for him on the lawn. And all the, this out of touch, French Revolution style behavior from Donald Trump, I think will be manna for the Democrats politically. But I'm not expecting much heroism from John Cornyn.
- [17:51]
Mark Elias
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for that, my friend. That's why we're here. Yeah, sure. You see me, I still don't understand exactly what it is that he's built on the South Lawn of the White House and sort of perverting all of these spaces that used to represent the whole country with something that's very specific to his tastes.
- [18:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it's the claw. I think it used to be the Beta stage and at a music event. I don't know, something to that effect. I think that's appropriate. Look, Bill's article at the Bulwark this morning, I asked people to read because he was so good on this. And he brings in the historical perspective and the manner in which this is vulgar and the manner with which this insults all the, you know, public servants and leaders have come before it. And, you know, I'm not sure how much more I can add to that. It is, it's gross and I think it's corrupt, I guess would be the thing that I would add to it. Like, it's not just the vulgarity, but it's the corruption. Dana White, the head of ufc, was a bit, was a supporter of Trump's got to speak at the convention. This is unbelievable publicity. There are brand sponsors on the White House lawn. And, you know, all of it is a perfect sign, perfect encapsulation of the Trump era with the corruption and the vulgarity. I would add one caveat, I think, though, to my Democratic friends, I do want to say this, which is you would never do things exactly like Trump and I would never call for it. But I do think it's important to have fun in politics. And I think that sometimes as we head into a weekend, I'm going into Pride weekend here in New Orleans, I'm going to go have fun after this. And I think that we can criticize them and mock them, but sometimes I think they can veer into wagging your finger at people and saying, don't have fun and I don't think that served the pro democracy movement that well. So I think that I hold those two thoughts together while fearing for the direction of our democracy.
- [19:45]
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- [20:08]
Tim Miller
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