← Bulwark Takes
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- [00:00]
A
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, Allbirds or Skims, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making selling and for the shoppers buying simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com audioboom all lowercase go to shopify.com audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com audioboom hey guys.
- [01:11]
B
Welcome to the Bulwark. I'm Joe Perdicone, the congressional reporter and author of the Press Pass newsletter. Today I've got a special guest, Susan Del Bene, who is the chair of the DCCC which is the Democratic House Democrats Campaign AR. She also represents Washington's 1st district which is I believe Bellevue is there.
- [01:31]
C
Huh? Kirkland, Bellevue.
- [01:33]
B
Bellevue defeated De La Salle in football and ended a 12 year winning streak which is a huge deal in the Bay Area where I'm from. So I. That's the only way I know Bellevue. How you doing?
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C
I'm doing okay. It's a tough time for a lot of our communities.
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B
You enjoying the six week recess that Mike Johnson gave you?
- [01:56]
C
It's terrible. It's terrible. They've been on vacation and then you're right, they've been on vacation for six weeks. I'm in D.C. right now continuing to fight because we absolutely should make sure that we are funding the government and supporting the programs that help the American people. And Republicans are nowhere to be found.
- [02:17]
B
So today we're going to talk about the redistricting that's happening in various other states. And as chair of the dccc, you be especially keyed into what's happening, where it's really happening and actually might have an effect in the next election where it might be good for Democrats or bad for Democrats. So I just like to start off with, you know, how this process started. We all know that Texas was the first to kind of jump into this and say we're going to do this unorthodox thing. As a result, many states have responded and that's kind of exploded over the past few months. So. So what's the current status?
- [02:52]
C
Well, to your point on how it started, it started because Donald Trump called up Republicans in Texas and said, give me five seats. And they said, yes, sir. This was not something the people of Texas asked for. In fact, you talk to the people of Texas, they hate this. They think they should be electing their representatives, not having politicians in Texas pick their voters. And yet Republicans continue to jam this through. And following up on that, we've also seen Donald Trump and J.D. vance continue to push other Republican states to redraw their maps. And we are not going to stand by why they do this. This impacts everyone's representation across the country. And so you've seen states like California, who led the effort, respond strongly. And maybe one big thing about California is it's going to the voters. The voters are going to decide if California does new maps. Prop 50, which is going, which is on the ballot right now in the state of California, people understand what Republicans are doing. They hate it. And they also understand that this is part of the effort to fight back. And definitely the folks of California are going to be a key part of doing that. Because let's be clear, if the American people are with you on where you stand on policy, if you feel like you have the American people on your side, you aren't trying to rig the system. Republicans are trying to rig the system because people do not support their policies. They're raising costs for American families, all of those things. And instead of listening to their constituents and understanding what they could do to earn their support, they're trying to rig the system.
- [04:34]
B
So in California, it's a unique case because it does have to go to voters. And a lot of the times when they do these ballot measures, it's really hard to paint them as, you know, Democrat versus Republican. But in this case, it's pretty very clear that it's Democrats want to change these districts in retaliation to Texas and Republicans don't. You've seen a few Republicans I know, Kevin Kiley, who represents part of Northern California. He was one of the first to say, no, we shouldn't do this. But of course, he didn't say that until after Texas had started. Do you think that it being sort of tethered to the party politics, at least in California, do you think that's a good thing for you? Because, for example, you know, we go back, you know, 20 years California voted against legalizing same sex marriage because it wasn't directly tied to a party thing. It was just a statewide ballot. So do you think this is working more in your advantage and are you optimistic about Prop 50 passing?
- [05:32]
C
Well, first of all, Kevin Kiley didn't stand up until after folks in California started to stand up and talk about new maps. He wasn't speaking out about Texas and what was happening in Texas. Republicans across the board could have been speaking out about how this was a terrible path to be going down, but they haven't and but the people of Texas hate this in a bipartisan way. The people in California understand that this is where Republicans are going and that it's going to impact their representation in the House of Representatives. And so they are fighting back. And, and so I think there's been strong support for Prop 50. People absolutely understand what this is. This is about fighting back to protect representation given that Republicans are trying to gerrymander their way into long term majority in the House of Representatives.
- [06:29]
B
I spoke to Adam Schiff earlier in the year, right when Texas started doing this, and he made the point that this is tantamount to disenfranchisement of Texas voters. And then in the next breath he said, well, if they do it, then California has to respond in kind. And that kind of struck me as odd because it was sort of saying this is bad. Well, now we have to do a bad thing. How do you square that on just a ethical level? And do you think that this kind of redistricting efforts that's now happening in California, Texas, Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, New York, Florida, Illinois, Utah is a different case, but Utah as well? Do you think that we're now in this era where there's going to be wars like this, redistricting wars every midterm cycle or every few years?
- [07:21]
C
Well, there shouldn't be and it shouldn't have started this way. And I think Democrats have been very clear about that. California is very clear that this is a response to what's happening in Texas and that they would go back to drawing lines and commission. We need federal legislation clearly to make it clear that states like what Texas is doing can't be constantly redrawing maps just for their own political benefit that they're doing right now. But we are also not going to sit idly by while they do this. Again, this is going to the voters of California so they are going to have a decision to make here. But they understand, they see what Republicans are doing across the country and Absolutely, in Texas and people understand how important it is to respond.
- [08:04]
B
How are your frontline candidates handling this? Because I know that for example, if Prop 50 passes somewhere like in Orange county where young Kim is the incumbent Republican, that district actually sort of becomes more Republican if I have the map correct. And maybe that might be good for her or bad for her if she has to face another Republican in a primary. But it kind of alters the state of that race and maybe somebody who is vying to get into that seat. What's been the response so far? Is it support or are people.
- [08:39]
C
I think people absolutely understand. The members of the California delegation understand what's at stake here. This is about representation across the country. It's about Republicans trying to gerrymander their way into power over the long term. And so people understand that. They absolutely understand what's at stakeholders. You know, Republicans not only trying to rig the system here, but disenfranchised voters attack campaign finance laws. They are going after everything because they know the American people are not with them. So we are absolutely going to continue to fight back. The American people hate what Republicans are doing. And we've seen that not only in Texas, but I'm talking to voters in Missouri, hate that they're pursuing this. Members of our delegations understand why we're doing this, why you've seen states respond. And it's about making sure that the people's house really represents the people.
- [09:40]
B
So on the opposite end in Texas, for example, where districts could become a lot more difficult for Democrats, is there any kind of tailoring messaging differently because the makeup of the map might make the priorities different for the voters. There's a new report out from welcome which kind of looked at the past decade of Democratic messaging and how things have begot become more popular or less popular. An area like immigration, for example, border security. Where do you see your Democratic candidates in the maybe once frontline districts in Texas now adjusting their message to be more palatable in a more purple district?
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C
Well, remember we've been successful in purple districts. We have 14 Democrats in Congress right now who won in districts that Donald Trump also won in. And the reason we and we even picked up two seats seats in November of 2024 over performing across the country. One because we have great candidates who are authentic talking about the issues that matter head on in their districts. Clearly, number one has been the need to lower costs affordability across the country. But as we saw even in a special election in New York, Tom Suozzi in Long island talked about immigration head on top issue. Republicans hid from the issue. He talked head on about what he would do to make a difference. I know when we have great candidates, which we have across the country, talking about the issues that matter, we win. And absolutely true, over and over and over again. Plus right now in special elections across the country, Democrats are running 15 points ahead since where we were in November of 2024 because Republicans promised to lower costs on day one. They've done nothing but raise costs. Food, housing, health care, child care, energy costs going up because of the actions of this administration and Republicans in Congress and people are responding to that. So Republicans should also be careful on what they ask for because when they start redrawing these maps, they may think they're drawing seats that are going to be Republican seats, but the folks are going to decide are voters. And we're going to compete in every single one of those districts where we see opportunities and we're going to pick up some of those seats too.
- [11:59]
B
So one of the latest states, and there's a long list is Virginia. So Virginia has a lot of districts that have been long time Republican districts. I remember, I believe it was Barbara Comstock. She had held just outside of D.C. for a really long time and that's now a pretty blue district. How do you think something like the government shutdown has played in these areas with a lot of federal workers and even states where they're not going into redistricting like Georgia, but has Georgia has, you know, over 100,000 federal employees. How do, how is the shutdown playing for you guys?
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C
Well, I think a shutdown is a terrible thing always. And from the very beginning of this administration, they have been terrible to federal workers, doge firing folks, doing critical jobs in many cases, you know, then understanding that they have to go back and bring people back because they they indiscriminately fired workers, agencies being gutted, putting more and more responsibility on the federal workers who remain. So they've been terrible to federal workers who work on important programs that the American people depend on. Now they've just escalated that during the shutdown. It's not about what do we do to help the American people. This administration has been focused on what they can do to be more cruel every day. And not just to federal workers, but definitely to federal workers, but to American families. It is people understand and see that happening every day. From the big ugly bill that they passed to their refusal for Republicans in Congress even to show up in Washington D.C. to make sure that we find a solution to fund the government and support families and health care. We can do that people know that they are not even here. We haven't been in session in the House for over a month. That's what Republican leadership gets you. It gets you representatives who aren't even willing to do their jobs during such a critical time. So people see that. Absolutely. They see that in Virginia. They see that across the country. And does that impact kind of people's feelings about what needs to happen here so that we have a check on this president and a Congress that's actually going to do its job? Absolutely.
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B
Are you optimistic about, for example, Prop 50? I think Democrats are pretty optimistic that that will pass in a state like Virginia where they're. There's a Republican governor, but they don't really need the governor and they can just kind of go ahead and do this. There's probably some optimism there in states like Indiana, for example. How do you suppose you're going to resist this in any way? Or is there. How are you tracking this and how is the math? Is it constantly just changing math for you?
- [14:45]
C
Well, you know, they are continuing to. To push all across the country where they can. You even saw J.D. vance going to the state of Indiana to push. You know, even there are even Republicans in Indiana who know how terrible this is and that they shouldn't be doing that. But the administration is going to be pushed and the administration is going to push on state leaders. And we've seen Republicans over and over again just cave, even when they know it's the wrong thing for their communities. They've caved. And so but the people understand, the people hate this across the board and people are speaking out. They're putting pressure on their state legislators to stand up and fight against this effort by the administration. And even in places like Missouri, where we see an effort for a referendum on the effort that they're doing to try to put in place redistricting, people want to have a voice and express their voice and express their outrage about what Republicans are trying to do. So we're going to continue to see that. But we are also going to see states like California, like Maryland, and obviously the conversations in Illinois and Virginia because people understand that this impacts their representation as well.
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B
Do you think that New York has been, for example, that would have been a state where Democrats could, if they could redraw the map, could get a lot of seats. Do you think their process. And for a while, California's process seemed very difficult because there's, you know, these independent commissions in New York, there's a lot more steps required compared to some of These other states, has that been a disappointment or a more difficult fight? And are you optimistic about New York possibly changing?
- [16:34]
C
Well, I think again what this really highlights is how important it is to make sure that we have a consistent view on redistricting, that we don't have Republicans trying to redraw the maps over and over again mid cycle to try to gain advantage. North Carolina, I think has had a new map almost every year as they can. So this is an effort that they continue to put in place. Republicans have tried over and over again. Democrats agree and understand that we need to make sure that we have maps in place, fair maps in place that stay in place for, for a cycle, for a census cycle, for that 10 years. That's really important. But we're only going to get there if we have leaders who agree with that. Right now we have Republicans who are willing to undermine everything. So that would impact what happens going forward in the long term. But right now you're going to see states and there's a recent lawsuit filed in New York on one of the districts there. But you're going to continue to see this. I think in many places that folks continue to fight back and stand up to make sure that they have representation.
- [17:48]
B
You mentioned like long term. This is the last thing I'll ask is best case scenario for Democrats is that you guys are successful in a lot of these map changing. You're successful in resisting the Republican map changes. You win big. Like maybe 2008 when Obama won and or 2006 when he took back the House in that fashion by a by significant majority. If you guys are in power and then this continues, do you see yourselves pushing more of these efforts? If everything goes according to plan, do you strengthen that? Does this become a new tactic is what I'm asking?
- [18:28]
C
Again, we need to make sure that we have policy across the country so that fair maps are drawn everywhere across the country and stay in place. That's absolutely what we fought for for a long, long time, long before this and fighting for voting rights and to make sure that there aren't ongoing efforts to disenfranchise voters. Republicans have tried everything in terms of undermining campaign finance laws, disenfranchised voters, attacking things like vote by mail over and over again now trying to, to rig the system on redistricting to their advantage. What we need to do is make sure to remember the the House of Representatives is the people's House and that the people are deciding who their representatives are. That's what we stand for and that's what we want to continue to work.
- [19:14]
B
Towards to a certain extent. Yes. But, but for example, if you look at the new California map, it takes some of the very far north districts and ropes in areas that economically and even not having big urban centers are not very similar like they they encompass more areas that are, I guess, less like how the districts are made. So it's not exactly it seems more about fairness for just talking about the House of Representatives. Right.
- [19:46]
C
But remember, this is about responding to what Republicans are doing across the country. They're taking away people's voices. They're trying to undermine districts across the country. They're attacking the Voting Rights Act. That's even a case that's going to the Supreme Court. So we are going to continue to stand up against their efforts to rig the system and stand up to make sure that we have free and fair elections.
- [20:13]
B
We'll leave it at that. Susan Del Bene of Washington's first District and the chair of the dccc, thank you for joining me.
- [20:22]
C
Thanks, Joe.
- [20:27]
A
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, Allbirds or Skims, sure, you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making selling and for the shoppers, buying. Simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com audioboom all lowercase go to shopify.com audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com audioboom.