← Bulwark Takes
Loading summary
Transcript39 lines
- [00:00]
Lauren Egan
What's up, guys? It's Lauren Egan here at the Bulwark, and I'm really excited about today's guest. It's Texas State Representative James Tallarico. And if you've heard that name, it's probably because he was just on the Joe Rogan podcast. Or if your social media algorithms look anything like mine, you might have seen him in his really viral and popular TikTok and Instagram Reels talking from the Texas House floor. James, thanks for being here.
- [00:28]
James Tallarico
Thanks so much for having me. I told you this before I got on, but I'm a huge fan of yours and the Bulwark, so I'm honored to be here.
- [00:36]
Lauren Egan
We appreciate it. Okay, before we get into it, I need you to settle a Bulwark Slack debate. We were chatting when you were on the Rogan show, and I don't know if you saw, like, Gavin Newsom did a four hour long podcast a few weeks ago, and I just want to know, like, do you guys take bathroom breaks? Like, what. How does this actually work? Because that is a very long time to be sitting in one place, like a four hour long interview. I know yours is only two and a half hours, but, like, it's crazy.
- [01:02]
James Tallarico
It is. It's like a marathon. I. I have the exact same concern. I didn't ask the Joe Rogan people because I didn't want them to think I was weird, but I was like, how do I. Yeah, that's like the.
- [01:11]
Lauren Egan
Fastest going to get uninvited. Like, what is this guy saying?
- [01:14]
James Tallarico
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, I, yeah, I was, I had never done an interview that long before. And it's very different from, like a cable news hit where you're on there for five minutes and you have a set number of topics. I mean, I didn't even. I had no idea what he wanted to talk about. They said that he had seen a video of mine on, on social media, he wanted to chat, and that was it. So I didn't even have a list of topics or.
- [01:39]
Lauren Egan
That's really interesting. And you're like, okay, cool. And this is like, whatever, maybe three hours long, and who knows where, where it could go, right? Yeah, I thought that that part was really interesting because he opened up the interview with you kind of talking about how a friend of his had seen your videos and was like, joe, you got to have this guy on. And, you know, like, Democrats have really struggled to sort of figure out social media and how to use it effectively to communicate with people. And you seem to have really cracked the code on digital communication. So can you just talk about how you figured that out and what your advice is to, you know, a bunch of these Democrats who are, like, just trying to figure this out for the first time?
- [02:21]
James Tallarico
Well, and it's strange because, you know, I'm a millennial, so when I was growing up, the Democratic Party was the cool party. Right. It was the younger party. It was the party that understood the Internet and social media. I mean, I'm thinking of, you know, Howard Dean, Barack Obama. I mean, these campaigns kind of revolutionized digital organizing, and so we've fallen from. From that spot over the last decade or so. And, you know, I think it's going to be younger Democrats, millennials, Gen Z elected officials who are able to, you know, speak on these platforms in an organic way. I kind of. I think of it as almost like a language. I'm a native speaker of this. Of this social media language because I grew up with it. Right. I had a MySpace when I was in high school. Metaphysics.
- [03:07]
Lauren Egan
Yeah. I was going to ask, what was your first face. What was your first social media platform? It was my space.
- [03:11]
James Tallarico
It was MySpace. Yep. Uh, and. And then I had Facebook when I. Right. When I graduated high school. And then I got Twitter pretty early when I was in college, and then Instagram and then recently got on TikTok. I'm, you know, as an elder millennial, I was kind of past the TikTok era, but my Gen Z staff members were like, you gotta get on this. This platform. And I said, okay, but I'm not dancing. That was my, like, one. My red line. That's a good rule, right?
- [03:39]
Lauren Egan
I think that's. That's a good rule for most people in elected Office on their TikTok accounts, figuring that out. Yeah, that's true. That's true. There are some exceptions, but very few.
- [03:51]
James Tallarico
Yes.
- [03:51]
Lauren Egan
Do you cut your own, like, TikTok video? Like, who does that for you? Do you manage your own social media accounts or do you. I mean, you know, I assume you have a fairly small staff. Are they kind of doing this for you?
- [04:01]
James Tallarico
So I'm a state rep, not a. Not a member of Congress or anything like that. So my team is pretty small. But I'm glad you asked, because no one ever asks about the people who are doing the work behind the scenes. Antonio Esparza. I'm so glad I'm getting to shout him out. He is our Gen Z communications director, and he's the one who convinced me to get on TikTok. He's the one who cuts all the videos, he films them himself. And you know, it's so interesting. I remember there was a press conference before the beginning of the regular legislative session in January, and it was kind of the typical press press conference in the press room at the Capitol. We invited all the TV and print media. They were all there like they normally are. And Antonio was right there on the front row and he just had his iPhone and he filmed something that I said at that press conference. He posted it on TikTok and it got 18 million views. And so from his little iPhone he dwarfed what all of the newspapers, what all the TV channels were able to get in terms of views. And so just in that one moment you saw how this, this media environment is changing so fast and so quickly and we've got to adapt in the Democratic Party if we're going to keep up.
- [05:14]
Lauren Egan
Yeah, that's really interesting. And I mean, to that point, when you are giving a speech or you're at a press conference, how much are you thinking about, like, how does this going to be translated or used for TikTok? Because I think a lot of Democrats like still live in the sort of like cable news era or in like. Sure, we're all tuning into C Span error and it's like, no, actually there's going to be like for you and your TikToks, you know, like a 30 second clip that's going to be shared hopefully thousands or millions of times. So how much is that factoring into like how you go about just doing your everyday speeches and things like that?
- [05:51]
James Tallarico
Well, you know what's cool about TikTok Instagram is you can actually go a little longer than what you can do on a cable news hit. You know, a lot of our, yeah, a lot of our videos are about 90 seconds, which that's, you know, there's a huge difference between 30 and 90. And you can communicate a lot more, you can go in more depth. The thing that's, that's important not to overlook is you still need to connect with the people in the room. You know, I grew up in the, in the church. That's, that's really my first experience with public speaking and with connecting with people and so being able to, to establish that, that relationship with the listeners right in front of you, human to human, is super important. Like if I, if I'm given a speech or a sermon and I'm thinking about social media and not the people in the room, it's not going to work. It's, it's going to, it's Going to feel stale, it's going to feel artificial. And so I really just try to stay in the moment and, and, and connect with the people right in front of me. And then that is what usually, you know, it's what translates into a, into a successful social media video.
- [06:54]
Lauren Egan
So a special session is just got underway, I believe, in Texas. And you are in Austin right now is, um, and so, you know, the special session was called for a number of reasons. Obviously you guys are having to deal with those horrific flooding that happened earlier this month. But there is also another agenda item on the list, and that is redistricting. And I just want to give people, like a quick overview in case they haven't been following the ins and outs of this. But redistricting usually happens every decade at the start of a new decade, once a new census comes out. But Governor Abbott has asked you all to redraw the maps. Obviously, we're mid decade. So the implication here is that Republicans are looking for a way to sort of squeeze out a few more wins in the House. They're anxious about retaining their House majority and are trying to pad that. I want to talk to you about this because I would love to hear from you how Democrats are going to fight this, because it seems to me like Democrats are pretty powerless right now in this, in this situation. So convince me. Wrong.
- [08:04]
James Tallarico
We always have power. You know, I have, as a Democrat in Texas, had to figure out how to get stuff done, how to fight for my constituents without being in the majority. Sometimes we Democrats, especially at the national level, we use the excuse of not being in the majority as a reason not to work, not to fight. We don't, we don't have that luxury here in Texas because we've been in the major. We've been in the minority for over 30 years. And so we've had to get used to, to using the tools that we have in the minority. And that's everything from the rules. You know, you've got to, as a legislator in. In the minority, you have to know the rules backwards and forwards so that you can use that to kill bad bills or help good bills. We have to use our platforms. We already talked about social media, but, you know, there is a ton of power in organizing people across a state as big as Texas. And social media provides a way to do that, that organizing work. And then of course, there are more extreme tactics. I was a part of the 2021 quorum break when Texas Republicans tried to pass a voter suppression bill in the wake of the big lie. And January 6th to make it harder for people to vote. And so we, as Democrats in the lower chamber, denied the House quorum. And so we weren't able to conduct business. And it was a way of protesting what we saw as, as an overreach and as, as trying to rig the game. And that's exactly what's happening now. So Donald Trump is trying to rig the 2026 elections, and we should say that plainly and clearly so people can understand. You know, he and his allies in D.C. just passed the largest transfer of wealth in American history with their big, beautiful bill. I mean, they literally are kicking millions of people off their health care to fund tax breaks for billionaires. And they know it's unpopular, but they don't care because they have this plan. They have a plan to, to cheat, to insulate themselves from the will of the people. And this is, this is incredibly dangerous, and it should be concerning to everyone, regardless of your political party, if you're a Democrat or Republican or an independent. No one wants politicians rigging an election so they, they don't have to answer to the people. I mean, if they're able to, to do this in Texas, one, they're going to do it in every red state before the 2026 election. But, but more importantly, they're never going to have to fear the voters ever again. They can enrich themselves and their donors with impunity, without consequences, without accountability. And so that's what's really on the line with this redistricting. I know it's, it sounds like process, it sounds like inside baseball, but politicians choosing their voters instead of voters choosing their politicians, that is the, the rot at the core of our broken political system. It's why we can't make progress on housing, on health care, on education, on all the things we care about. So I really want folks to wake up to what's happening here and realize that one party is attempting to cheat and insulate themselves from the wills of the voters. And, and nothing could be more disruptive to the democratic process.
- [11:29]
C
This is an ad by BetterHelp. Workplace stress is now one of the top causes of declining mental health, with 61% of the global workforce experiencing higher than normal levels of stress. To battle stress, most of us can't just wave goodbye to work. And if you work for a political media company, you can never really truly wave goodbye to work. But we can start small with a focus on wellness. That means better sleep, maybe a better diet, quick walk around the block in the evening, certainly time to just breathe and relax and you know, help that old noggin stay healthy. That's where BetterHelp comes in. Because while going on a week long vacation is great, we can't do that all the time. Therapy can also be a great way to talk through the stress that you're dealing with and to come up with ways to cope and just be your best self. It doesn't just have to be for folks who have suffered some major trauma. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it's convenient too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, the Better Help can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com bulwarktakes that's better. H E L P.com bulwarktakes yeah, I've.
- [13:11]
Lauren Egan
Heard from other Democrats too, that like this, they view this as Trump trying and Republicans trying to cheat and steal the election. But if that's true, then what do you think Democrats in other states, like California states where there, you know, is a Democratic majority, what should they be doing? Because Gavin Newsom is saying that he might try and redraw the maps there. Obviously that's going to be really complicated because they have an independent redistricting committee. So there's a lot of hoops he'd actually have to jump through in order to do that. And it's not even entirely clear that this is like a real thing, that that could reasonably happen before, before midterms. But if this is Republicans trying to steal an election, then like, what is the, like, appropriate response from Democrats in other states?
- [13:54]
James Tallarico
We have to match energy. We have to use every tool in the toolbox. We have to play to the fullest extent of the rules. I mean, that's what this moment calls for. I think it's so important that Democrats, and honestly, all Texans, all Americans, keep their eye on the prize. Again, the goal is not to get into a, a tit for tat, a downward spiral where we're just gerrymandering every, every state and every election. We don't want that. We do want to get to a point where we are taking the power to draw legislative districts out of the hands of politicians and putting it in the hands of the people. Having an independent citizen led redistricting commission should be the goal in every single state. But Democrats cannot unilaterally disarm because that, that, you know, I think would be the end of this American experiment. And so I, I am, I'm thankful that Democrats here in Texas and, and in other states are trying to figure out how we can play to the fullest extent of the rules, how we can stand up to bullies because appeasement doesn't work. We know that throughout history we have to fight with the same energy if we're going to be able to, to save this American experiment, which I'm hopeful we can do if people in both political parties stand up to this kind of extremism in the next election.
- [15:16]
Lauren Egan
You are also a former teacher and you talked about this a little bit on, on the Rogan podcast. But something that I've been thinking a lot about is how education has always been this issue that Democrats have been really trusted on. More trusted than Republicans. At least it was that way for quite, quite some time. I think Covid changed a lot of that. And I'm curious how you are thinking about, about that and how Democrats can kind of get back to a place where they are the party that is the most trusted when it comes to education topics.
- [15:50]
James Tallarico
I totally agree. You know, like you said before, I was a politician, I was a public school teacher and I taught 6th grade language arts at Rhodes Middle School on the west side of San Antonio. And I often say that teaching middle school is the best preparation for politics. But you know that that work is what motivated me to run for office, to help students like mine, to help my, my fellow teachers on the west side, some of whom were, you know, selling their own blood plasma to, to make extra money. Some of them were driving Ubers at night to make ends meet, which again, in, in the wealthiest country in human history, that should be unacceptable to nickel and dime the most important professionals in any community. Because without the teaching profession, there would be no other professions. And so the fact that we make our, our, our teachers, you know, go to extreme lengths just to survive should be disgusting to, to, to everyone, regardless of your political party. And to, to answer your, your, your question, I think the reason that we've lost trust on this issue is because we've lost our imagination. You know, I, I am, I am not interested in defending the status quo in any sector, but particularly in education. You know, I, I am not going to be satisfied until every single child in Texas and across the country has the ability to fulfill their God given potential. I mean, that's a Lofty goal, and we are far from it right now. And Democrats in too many states have become the defenders of the status quo. Understandably so, because we've seen such extreme attacks from the other side. You know, the Republican Party is in, is intent on destroying public schools, so we have to defend against those extreme attacks, but then also offer a vision for how this system or how this institution could be different, how it could actually work for. For everybody, particularly my students on the west side of San Antonio. So that that's where I want us to get to, not just playing defense, but playing offense and providing an exciting vision for, for what these systems could look like and how they could really deliver for people.
- [18:01]
Lauren Egan
You've also said that Democrats have a moral imperative to win. And I'm curious what that means to you, because I hear that, and especially, you know, I live in Tennessee, so I get it. Like being in a red state. To me, that kind of suggests that you might have to make compromises on some things, whether it's abortion access or gun rights. So can you explain to me, like, what that means to you, especially coming from a red state?
- [18:30]
James Tallarico
Well, I think this is a tension between, you know, the national Democratic Party and Democrats in red states like Texas or Tennessee, where national Democrats, those who are living in, in blue states or blue cities on the coasts, you know, they're very comfortable on the coast. They're comfortable with the status quo because oftentimes they are not directly threatened by Republican extremism, like the way my constituents are here in Texas. You know, we. We have the highest number of uninsured people in the entire country. We've refused to expand Medicaid year after year, even though it would, it would help people who desperately need help across the state. But we have the most extreme abortion ban in the country. We have women literally dying in emergency room parking lots because of Republican extremism. We've seen the biggest mass shootings in the country here in Texas, including Uvalde, where we lost 19 babies and two teachers because of a refusal to raise the age to buy one of these weapons of war from 18 to 21. So my constituents are living with those consequences, and some of them are dying because of these policy decisions. So that's why I say we have a moral imperative to win. Not to complain on social media, not to play purity politics about who's more pure, not to posture and grandstand and virtue signal. I'm not, I'm not interested in any of that here in Texas. We need to win. We need to gain power so that we can make people's lives better and easier, period. And so that's. I think you have this kind of moral clarity in a red state that maybe you don't have when you're more comfortable living under a different kind of government. So that's the perspective I think red state Democrats can bring to the national Democratic Party is a focus on winning. And that's why I went on Joe Rogan's show. It's why I went on Fox News. That's why I went on the Christian Broadcasting Network, why I'm here on the bull work. It's because politics is about addition, not subtraction. So if you want a pure, insular, small group, then you want a social club. You don't want a political party, because the purpose of a political party is to win power to help people. That's the goal of a party. And so I'm trying to push national Democrats to recognize that and start to do everything we need to do to win elections, because that is what matters in a democracy, not, you know, riling up your own base or winning points with. With certain advocacy groups. The goal is to build a big enough coalition that can win and transform this country.
- [21:11]
Lauren Egan
Well, I know you're super busy, so I will let you go in just a second. But first, I assume you're a Texas fan. A Texas football fan?
- [21:18]
James Tallarico
Very much so, yes.
- [21:19]
Lauren Egan
Okay. I won't hold it against you. How are you enjoying the sec?
- [21:26]
James Tallarico
Well, we've done pretty well in the sec. You know, our little brothers at Texas A and M joined the SEC a while back and made a big deal about how we couldn't cut it, and that certainly hasn't been the case.
- [21:42]
Lauren Egan
I will say, as a Vanderbilt fan, we did come very close to beating you all last year.
- [21:48]
James Tallarico
And.
- [21:48]
Lauren Egan
And, you know, maybe this season.
- [21:50]
James Tallarico
I'm very excited because if we've had a long drought, last time we were in the national championship was when I was a student at UT back in 2009, and we were robbed in that. In that game against Alabama. But I. I'm very excited that. That our team is making a comeback and taking that spot we deserve at the top of college football.
- [22:10]
Lauren Egan
I might get sent out of Tennessee for saying this, but you guys do have the better orange color in the sec. Tennessee or. I know, like, literally, I'm gonna have to. Lately.
- [22:19]
James Tallarico
I agree. You know, burnt orange is the color of leather and sunsets.
- [22:24]
Lauren Egan
Tennessee orange is so neon. I married into a Tennessee family, so maybe it's just I'm, like, surrounded by too much. Just like insanely orange crap, but.
- [22:32]
James Tallarico
And aren't y' all UT as well? I think y' all are also ut. Yeah. Yeah. So we're very similar.
- [22:40]
Lauren Egan
Thanks for asking. Thanks for being here, and good luck with the rest of the session and come back anytime.
- [22:47]
James Tallarico
Love to. Thanks for having me.