wavePod

Get Wave AI

How MAGA is Splitting The Catholic Church | WTF 2.0 - Bulwark Takes | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Back to Bulwark Takes

How MAGA is Splitting The Catholic Church | WTF 2.0

Bulwark Takes

Wed Feb 19 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How MAGA is Splitting The Catholic Church | WTF 2.0"

Podcast Information:

Title: Bulwark Takes
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Episode: How MAGA is Splitting The Catholic Church | WTF 2.0
Release Date: February 19, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts A and B delve into the intricate dynamics between the MAGA movement and the Catholic Church in America. They explore how political affiliations, particularly those aligned with Donald Trump and his supporters, are causing internal divisions within the Church. The discussion covers recent criticisms from political figures, the financial implications for Catholic Charities, the role of Pope Francis, and the broader impact on American Catholicism.

J.D. Vance's Criticism of the Catholic Church

The conversation begins with an examination of J.D. Vance’s recent remarks targeting the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB).

Speaker A highlights Vance's stance:

"J.D. vance, who's been Catholic for five minutes, who a couple weeks ago took after the USCCB... [01:59]"

Speaker B elaborates on Vance's accusations:

"He accused the bishops conference, the usccb, of padding its bottom line by taking federal grant money to resettle what he called illegal immigrants... [01:58]"

Vance alleges that the Church benefits financially from immigration efforts, suggesting that Catholic Charities are profiting from federal funds.

Catholic Charities' Financial Strain with Federal Funding

Speaker B provides a deeper analysis of the financial relationship between the USCCB and federal funding:

"The amount of money that Catholic Charities get from federal grants rises and falls a great deal depending on who's in the White House... [02:30]"

He clarifies that despite significant federal grants—reporting figures like "$130 million in 2023"—Catholic Charities operates at a loss, spending more than it receives. This challenges Vance’s assertion that the Church views immigration as a profit center.

Speaker A counters the notion of profit-driven charity:

"Anybody who has ever spent five minutes doing any sort of charity work in or around the Catholic Church will instantly understand that ain't nobody getting rich... [03:46]"

The hosts emphasize that Catholic Charities rely heavily on volunteers and operate on tight budgets, debunking claims that the Church is financially motivated in its humanitarian efforts.

Pope Francis's Intervention

The discussion shifts to the unprecedented response from Pope Francis regarding the criticisms.

Speaker B highlights Pope Francis's direct involvement:

"Pope Francis wrote a letter about what's going on coming out of the White House... [05:14]"

This marks a rare instance where the Pope publicly addresses domestic political issues, particularly criticizing the Trump administration's immigration policies. The Pope underscores principles like human rights and dignity, directly challenging Vance's viewpoint.

Impact on the Catholic Community and Voting Trends

Speaker A and Speaker B explore how these political tensions are influencing Catholic voters:

Speaker A observes:

"Catholics now vote the way Protestant evangelicals do... [10:00]"

Speaker B offers a more nuanced perspective:

"There's no such thing as the Catholic vote as a block you can win... [11:18]"

They discuss the diversity within the Catholic electorate, noting that while some Catholics align closely with Republican or Democratic values, others prioritize their faith over party affiliation. This fragmentation reflects broader societal trends and the evolving demographic landscape of American Catholics.

The Future of the Catholic Church in the US

The hosts contemplate the long-term implications of the current political schism.

Speaker B asserts:

"The entire institutional way the Church in the United States operates is in flux right now... [19:27]"

Factors such as declining attendance, financial challenges from lawsuits, and the Church's increasing political engagement are transforming the traditional role of Catholic institutions in America. The conversation suggests that without a clear vision for the future, the Church may struggle to maintain its historical influence and cohesive community.

The Health and Future of Pope Francis

Concluding the episode, the discussion turns to Pope Francis's health and the uncertainty surrounding the next papal conclave.

Speaker B remarks on the Pope's health:

"Pope Francis is in great health... [26:37]"

However, he acknowledges the guarded nature of Vatican communications and speculates about potential developments:

"We're definitely not in the front half of this pontificate... [26:37]"

The unpredictability of the upcoming conclave is highlighted, with Speaker B noting the diverse and unfamiliar makeup of the College of Cardinals, which may lead to unforeseen outcomes in selecting the next Pope.

Conclusion

The episode of Bulwark Takes provides a comprehensive analysis of the tensions between the MAGA movement and the Catholic Church in America. Through insightful discussion, the hosts shed light on the financial, political, and spiritual challenges facing the Church, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of this complex interplay. As the Catholic Church navigates these turbulent waters, the future of its role in American society remains a critical area to watch.

Notable Quotes:

Speaker A ([01:59]):

"J.D. vance... accuse the bishops of padding their bottom line by taking federal grant money to resettle what he called illegal immigrants."
Speaker B ([03:46]):

"Every charity drive or initiative that any Catholic Church anywhere in America does is done on a shoestring and it's almost entirely volunteers."
Speaker B ([05:14]):

"Pope Francis wrote a letter about what he called the major catastrophe... warning about human rights, human dignity, due process."
Speaker A ([10:00]):

"Catholics now vote the way Protestant evangelicals do... it's being less true over the last couple of elections."
Speaker B ([19:27]):

"There's no clear vision for what American Catholicism 2.0 looks like either at the 30,000 foot level or at your local parish level."
Speaker B ([26:37]):

"The next conclave... a group of relative strangers who in large part have never heard of each other, who are just going to get locked in a room and told, okay, figure it out who's going to be the Pope."

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a cohesive narrative for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Loading summary...

Transcript

A (0:00)

Get the Angel Reese Special at McDonald's.

B (0:01)

Now, let's break it down.

A (0:03)

My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions, and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't forget the fries and a drink.

B (0:11)

Sound good? I participate in restaurants for a limited time. At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out, to the later years of still figuring it out. For the place you've put down roots. Trust Amica home insurance. Amica empathy is our best policy.

A (0:45)

Catholic Church is kind of important to world affairs. You may or may not have noticed that over the course of the last 2000 years. And the Catholic Church is going to become increasingly important to American politics, I think in ways which nobody who's Catholic would actually prefer. But. But here we are. And let's Just start with J.D. vance, who's been Catholic for five minutes, who a couple weeks ago took after the USCCB, the United States Conference of Catholic Conference of Bishops, because they. They. Ed, am I wrong to say that the vice President's position was that Catholics are pro illegal immigrant because they're all getting rich off of serving immigrants?

B (1:39)

That's pretty much what he said. What he actually said was he accused the bishops conference, the usccb, of padding its bottom line by taking federal grant money to resettle what he called illegal immigrants. Of course, what they're actually resettling is vetted refugees. But, you know, potato, potato, I guess.

A (1:58)

Sure.

B (1:59)

But yeah, he basically said that the church is a position on immigration. The Catholic bishops, who've always been very much in favor of both comprehensive immigration reform and, you know, actually clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, helping people who are on the street, people who have nowhere to go settle in, especially if they're refugees. He said that that's basically a money making concern for them, which, you know, was kind of ironic because, you know, a lot. This is a talking point that you see a lot. I remember seeing this on something called Fox and Friends, which I'd never seen before, like five years ago when I first moved back to the States. And I couldn't quite believe that people were shocked that the Catholic Church, through Catholic Charities, was, you know, working with refugees. But apparently that's a hot topic for some people. I mean, it's true the uscc, being farm, takes in a lot of federal grant money and then farms it out to local Catholic charities. I think they've done something like $800 million in the last 10 years, more or less. So it is, it is a lot of money. But to accuse them of sort of patting their bottom line and say, well, this is a profit center for them, which is what you hear most often. The bishops love immigration because it's a profit center for them. It's not actually, it's a loss making concern. The amount of money that Catholic Charities get from federal grants rises and falls a great deal depending on who's in the White House. So in 2020, for example, when Trump was last in, they got $48 million and in 2023, they had $130 million come in in that year, federal grant money. So it gives you an idea of like, you know, it really doubles, triples even depending on who's in the White House. But every single year they're spending more than they're taking in. This is actually a loss center for the usccb. They're taking in tens of millions of dollars and then they're spending millions of their own money on top of that just to do work with refugees. And they're getting kicked in the shins for this by, by the Vice President, which is kind of surprising.

B (5:15)

Yeah, Pope Francis, It's. It takes a lot to get the Pope, any pope, to make a direct intervention in international affairs generally that, you know, when there isn't actually a war going on, but to, you know, have the Pope write a letter about what's going on coming out of the White House was kind of shocking, kind of a big deal. I can't think, I can't remember a time when this has ever happened, apart from maybe on the eve of the Iraq war with JP2, John Paul II. So that was kind of a big deal. And Pope Francis not only wrote a letter about what he called the, you know, the major catastrophe, the, you know, the horrible situation going on with the Trump administration's program of mass deportation, warning about human rights, human dignity, due process, all the stuff you'd expect the Pope to name check, but then he kind of poked a finger in J.D. vance's chest personally, because along the way, in all of the back and forth about this, J.D. vance ended up in a Twitter fight with a guy called Rory Stewart, who used to be a Member of Parliament in Britain. And JD Vance is part of this Twitter exchange with him. Said it's called the Order of Morris. Google it. Because I think Rory had basically questioned JD Vance's Christian bona fides by, you know, not not wanting to give a bunch of money to help refugees and stuff. And he said, it's called the Order of Morris. Google it. And Pope Francis gave this like two paragraph long. By the way, just to clarify, the Order of Morris does not mean that you have license to love some people less than others. Like the principle that, you know, you have to, you have to help and love everyone. That's a, that's a Christian principle. If you really want to meditate on something about who you need, who's your neighbor, who you need to love, there's this thing called the Parable of the Good Samaritan. Look it up. And, you know, it's weird enough to have the Pope wading into domestic political affairs of any country, but to have the Pope kind of give a hot take on a Twitter fight with the Vice President, that was a new one for me. I've not seen that one before.

B (23:20)

It certainly feels that way to me whenever I see. Well, whenever I see Christian nationalism discussed right now, that's certainly the impression I get. I mean, Catholic teaching recognizes nations and nation states and the idea of peoples that are coherent and recognizable in. Of themselves, rooted in places as, you know, something that sort of exists as part of the natural order. So it's not to say that, you know, there's, there's a misrepresentation of Catholic teaching that says, like, oh, countries are bad and secondary or arbitrary and they don't have to exist at all. Like, no, it's not what the church teaches, you know, John Paul II was. Was kind of big on the idea of peoples and places and nations and their dignity, and it's how we won the Cold War. But, yeah, you're seeing a very, very different presentation and flavor of it now that basically says it's the same thing of, you know, a Catholic, the church would say, should consider himself a Catholic first. You would. You wouldn't be a Democrat who's, you know, slightly inflected by their Catholicism, or Republican who's slightly inflected with their colossal. You're a Catholic who can lean Republican or Democrat without coloring outside the lines of the faith. And I think the same thing's happening with Christian nationalism. It's like you're seeing the idea of, well, we're nationalists, but we like the sort of Christian flavor and vocab you can put on it. You know, the thing that drove me absolutely crazy last week, and, I mean, there's. There's stuff to drive you crazy every week these days, I suppose, was when J.D. vance gave his speech in Munich at the security conference and, you know, basically trashed the entire European political establishment for walking away from free speech and from, you know, holding, taking seriously their own elections and stuff like that. A lot of which I have to say I agreed with. I lived in Europe for a very, very long time. I worked in European politics for, you know, almost 10 years. So I. I actually jived with a lot of what he was saying. I don't know that at a security conference, what was supposed to be talking about Ukraine and Russia was necessarily the time and place for that. But anyway, it was fine. But at the end, he rounded it off with this call to say, you know, well, as John second said, be not afraid. And you people need to trust your, you know, you need to trust your own voters and you need to, you know, you need to accept the voice of the people, even if it's electing parties you don't agree with. And he was pretty clearly talking about the AfD in Germany. I just kind of was like, I. Okay, I was nodding along like, yeah, the UK is having a crisis of free speech right now. Yeah, the cancellation of the entire election in Romania, that was. That was pretty iffy stuff. But wait a minute. If you think John Paul II would have been like, yeah, be not afraid. I didn't mean. Jesus Christ, I meant of the revanchist nationalist party in Germany.