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Transcript20 lines

[00:00]
A
Welcome back to the Bulwark. My name is Will Sommer. I'm joined today by Sarah Matthews. We are here to discuss a real creep in the House of Representatives, a guy named Chuck Edwards. And I had to have Sarah here because she's a former congressional staffer herself. Now, the backstory here is that earlier this week, the House Ethics Committee recommended a censure for Edwards, who is a North Carolina Republican, for possibly violating sexual harassment rules against staffers. Sarah, when you saw this story, you know, as a former staffer yourself, what did you make of all this?
[00:30]
B
Yeah, unfortunately, I feel like the Hill runs rampant with this type of behavior where you have this power dynamic of senators and congressmen and women who are working with people who are much younger than them typically. Like in this case, you look at Chuck Edwards, he was 65 years old, and the women who have accused him of inappropriate behavior were women in their early 20s. That is how Capitol Hill is made up of. And there's always been stories of these members of Congress maybe being a little weird, where they're going out and drinking with their staffers and they're putting themselves in these types of environments. But at the end of the day, we have to remember that these politicians are in charge and that they control the employment of these folks. And so they're just. It's a very different environment than like, say, a corporate America where I don't think you could get away with this behavior maybe as easily. There really isn't an HR department on the Hill. So I looked at this story and I thought, unfortunately, I know that there are many women on the Hill who have experience, maybe if it's not even at the hands of a member of Congress who's doing it, but they've experienced some type of inappropriate behavior from their superiors, whether that be, you know, men or women who are above them in employment and in the rankings in the offices. And so I just, it didn't really surprise me. But reading some of the specifics of what he did for these women was particularly creepy. So that did surprise me a little bit.
[02:01]
A
I mean, there's so many crazy details here. So, I mean, this involves, involves two female staffers in their 20s, one of whom he like, weirdly elevates to like a really high position. I think she was an intern. And he said, you know, you should be a scheduler while she's still in college. And so kind of making her like a full time employee, you know, if I'm understanding the report right. And there's a lot of stuff that is like, it's not like assault or like really, like, you know, anything that rises to like, like what we might think of as a previously, like a meaty level. But there's a lot of like, creepy, weird behavior. And, and, and I, I've heard primarily from female reporters on the Hill, where it's just like these old guys, you know, and it's like, well, if you want to get the scoop, maybe we got to go on a date tonight. Like, just weird, gross stuff. And there's such a pattern of behavior laid out here in this report. What are those details that you mentioned that really jumped out at you?
[02:50]
B
Yeah, no, and I think you're right that this is an unspoken thing in Washington where this is a pattern of behavior with these old men who are typically, you know, spending time away from their families. In the case of Chuck Edwards, he's married, but, you know, they spend a lot of time in Washington away from their families. And, and yeah, maybe they look at these staffers as, oh, well, this is my family here. But it's really inappropriate when you look at what he was doing for these young women. One of the instances that struck me was that he skipped votes to go over to one of the staffers houses to help her decorate her Christmas tree. I can assure you, I worked on the Hill. I would never want my boss stepping foot in my apartment or my house. That just feels like such a weird boundary to cross. I don't think that, that, that is appropriate to, for him to come over and do something like that and also just to skip votes. Like, you're also skipping out on doing your job because you want to be spending time outside of the office with this younger staffer of yours while you're married feels really odd. And then the other one that really struck me was there was this picture that was included in the report of the. I believe it was like over 30 tubs of ice cream that he sent to one of the women after she went through. I believe it was a breakup and he sent her 30 tubs of ice cream. And she even said in the text messages to him that she thought it was a little excessive. And I'm like, I don't, I don't understand what he's trying to do there. If he maybe like, you know. Yeah, you mentioned there's no instances where he tries to sexually assault them or any of the language in his texts to them or anything that is sexual in nature. I think that he made some comments on their looks, but it's not like he's proposing any sort of sexual activity between him and either of these women, but still, like, the. The lines that he was crossing. It's just inappropriate for a boss to be doing this to women whose employment he has in their control.
[04:55]
A
Yeah, exactly. I mean, the ice cream thing is crazy. He basically, like, you know, had some courier doordash, whatever, take, you know, 30 tubs of ice cream. And it's in the report, just all his ice cream. And over and over in these text messages from the staffers he proposes. He's kind of like, he's very much, you know, advancing his closeness with these staffers and saying, well, why don't I come over to your house? Why don't we go out tonight? Whatever? And then they're saying, that won't be necessary. It's too much. You know, I mean, it's. It's just creepy, weird stuff. You know, just in case people are wondering about this Christmas tree thing. To be clear, this was not a Christmas tree decorating party or anything. I mean, this is very much him inviting himself over and saying, I'd love to help you. You know, alone. He did yard work on one of their house, their apartments, or what have you. I mean, it is. You know, Axios has done a lot of great reporting in the lead up to this. People really want the gruesome details. And one of it was he gave the staffers matching guns, one that was blue and one that was pink, you know, gifts of jewelry, I think, worth over $1,000. And just over the way he would talk to them or send messages. That was like, when one of them finally quit because she felt, you know, my boss is a creep. I'm out of here. That he. He said, you know, this is one of the most heartbreaking days of my life. I mean, just really. Just really inappropriate and just weird. Weird ways to interact.
[06:11]
B
No. And it makes me sad for these women that they had to endure that, because you shouldn't have to decide between pushing back on your boss's creepy advances like this and saying no, because obviously there is just this inherent power dynamic where he controls their employment. So even if these are unwanted advances, advances on his part, like, what are these women really supposed to do? You know, getting a job on Capitol Hill is. It's highly competitive and very sought after. When you're starting out in politics particularly, that's where Most people in D.C. get their start. People always say, that's one of my biggest tips to people when they want to start a career in politics. I'm like, you need to intern on the Hill or get a job on the Hill and work your way up and then you can kind of branch off and figure out what you want to do from there. But it's a really good starting point. So to think that these were young women just starting out their careers and then having to deal with this unwanted attention from their creepy old boss who's married. Like, no one gives you a playbook for how to navigate that. And so I, I just feel sorry for them that, that that was their experience starting out in Washington, having to deal with this. And I will say that I worked for plenty of members so who were great, great members and would never do anything like this. And there are plenty of them who make up the Hill. But unfortunately there is a lot of this type of behavior where like you outlined with reporters and some of these members being creepy to them. And it's just, it's unfortunate because it is kind of one of those unspoken things in Washington.
[07:47]
A
I think it says a lot about Chuck Edwards that this has risen to the level of the House Ethics Committee because, like, you have to be a real big time creep in con for the House or the Senate to take action. I mean, it's as you said, I mean, this is like pretty common behavior there. And one of the challenges in this in Congress is that unlike if you were doing this at a federal agency or at a corporation, there's not really like Congress is kind of its own thing. And so the amount of oversight or punishment for someone like this is really only going to be as much as their colleagues see fit to do or is maybe politically acceptable to them. So there's really a lot of leeway these members have.
[08:26]
B
Yeah. And what struck me is that the House Ethics Committee didn't recommend that he be expelled. They just recommended that he be censured. And it, I mean, now that these, they're out of, they're on recess for August, it seems like this censure wouldn't even potentially come until September if it does end up happening. But to me, I would think that there would be more Republicans who are saying, look, he clearly crossed the line and this type of behavior is unacceptable on the Hill and that he should resign and step aside. But you're not really seeing that. You're kind of seeing people not address there, want to talk about it or point to the ethics investigation. And it just, it's interesting to me to see this all play out as we're having the Max Miller debacle play out and Corey Mills and all these other Republicans who are kind of facing different serious allegations when it comes to abuse or sexual abuse or whatever it is. And then you have this situation as well. And when I look at Democrats, though, you know, they forced Graham Platner out of the race, they forced Eric Swalwell to resign. And you're not really seeing that similar push or pressure on the Republican side, which is pretty interesting too, not to
[09:39]
A
dwell on it too much, but I think ultimately that comes down to Donald Trump. Right? Because as soon as you start taking these allegations seriously, you know, then you have to wonder, you know, in the case of, let's say Corey Mills or Max Miller who are both accused of domestic violence, you know, then you have to say, well, wait, maybe sometimes women make true allegations. And then what does that tell us about Donald Trump?
[09:59]
C
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[12:03]
A
one thing that struck me about this and this is like these messages are so weird. They're so lovelorn. This is like I, I think unfortunately a type of guy many women are familiar with that I'm only becoming conscious of as a type of guy, older guy, you know, as I age is that like these like guys who are just like decades and decades younger and just like, are just acting in these weird and like lovey dovey ways with young women. And it's like, what are thinking, man? You're like this mid-60s congressman. You know, this young woman's not interested in you in this. We have to hit some of these other, other weird things he did, you know, including he gave one of the staffers a puzzle, like a custom puzzle with a note on it with a picture of Adam Sandler. And it was saying, you know, do you want to come to this Adam Sandler show with me? And it's so crazy to me that a congressman would have this much time to just like plot all of this out and go on, I don't know, like the custom puzzles.com and put all this together. I mean, what did.
[12:58]
B
It's obviously so creepy, but it is just downright pathetic. Like what are you doing spending time making this girl a puzzle? And I just, I have to imagine what is his wife thinking that he's doing these kinds of things now that it's open and out there publicly that he's doing these types of things for other women. I can't even imagine being in a situation where if my boss basically asked me on a date with a puzzle, I mean, how do you say no? Like without fear of being reprimanded or fired and that kind of unwanted attention. It's not fair that he subjected these women to it. At the end of the day, I think it just highlights like what a fucking pathetic loser this guy was. And I don't know if this is like some type of kink for him of like he like enjoyed like I've heard like, you know, the term, like pay pig before, I don't know if you're familiar with that, Will, but.
[13:51]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, we've gotten into this on the, on the Bulwark YouTube before.
[13:55]
C
Yes.
[13:55]
B
I feel like that might be what we're seeing play out where, like, maybe he genuinely didn't expect anything back from these women and just like spoiling them with these, you know, lavish gifts and taking them to concerts. And, you know, there was one report where he gave tickets to one of the women to go see Hamilton with her friend in New York City. Like, I mean, I don't get. I don't get it. Like, clearly that might be what's playing out here and what type of kinky had. I don't know, but I just don't understand what he thought or if he was expecting anything in return from these women and how it made other staffers in the office feel. I mean, that obviously we're talking about what these two women had to deal with. But like, imagine you're on staff and you're watching this. I mean, it. It's just an all all over. It's just overall very, very creepy situation. But it just makes me think that the guy is like pathetic at the end of the day. But it's still, I. Accenture to me is not enough. I think that there needs to be more here. I think that he obviously crossed a line and it started to impact his ability to do his job and represent his constituents. If he's skipping votes to go decorate a Christmas tree with his staffer and things like that.
[15:10]
A
Well, and you know, to your point about other staffers, I mean, I think it's interesting in the report how clear it is that Chuck Edwards was kind of hiding this weird behavior from other staffers. Like he would say, I'm going to meet up with, you know, one of these staffers he's pursuing. But don't put that calendar entry that I'm like going out on, you know, dinner with you or to Las Vegas in one case. Don't put that in because it's really none of the other staffers business. Which also makes clear that it's not really a congressional matters related thing. That it's just kind of like his side creep thing, you know. The last thing I wanted to say is that this is the same district Madison Cawthorn represented. People Chuck Edwards previously best known for beating Madison Cawthorn in the primary. After Madison Cawthorn said, hey, they're having all these orgies up here.
[15:50]
D
Then all of a sudden you get invited to like, well, hey, we're going to have kind of a sexual get together at one of our homes. You should come. They're not like, what did you just ask me to come to? And then you realize they're asking you to come to an orgy or the fact that, you know, there's some of the people that are leading on the movement to try and remove, you know, addiction in our country. And then you watch them do, you know, a key bump of cocaine right in front of you.
[16:11]
A
And then he was quickly punished for that. So there's something weird going on with this congressional seat.
[16:16]
B
I know. I feel bad for the constituents there in North Carolina and that they've had to endure just some weirdos who have served them. And so hopefully we see a situation where he faces enough pressure after being censured and eventually steps aside. But if not, hopefully, then they will ultimately vote him out because a creep like this doesn't deserve to hold a seat in Congress.
[16:41]
A
I mean, these people have real problems. They just keep sending guys up to get into Peccadillo's up in D.C. well, once again, I'm Will Sommer. We've been joined today by Sarah Matthews. This is the Bulwark. Hit that subscribe button. We got a lot of great newsletters, so check out thebullwork.com Sign up for our newsletters. I write False Flag. That's a fun one, as always. So, Sarah, thank you so much and, and thanks for tuning in, folks.

Summary5 min read

Bulwark Takes – "Inside the Creepy Allegations Against Rep. Chuck Edwards"

Date: August 4, 2026
Host: Will Sommer
Guest: Sarah Matthews

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the disturbing allegations against Rep. Chuck Edwards, a North Carolina Republican, following the House Ethics Committee’s recommendation that he be censured for violating sexual harassment rules with young female staffers. Host Will Sommer, joined by former congressional staffer Sarah Matthews, discusses the specific incidents laid out in the report, the entrenched power dynamics on Capitol Hill, and the broader implications of Congress’s mishandling of such unethical behavior. With unfiltered candor and first-hand perspective, the discussion dissects why this kind of conduct persists in Washington—and what it says about both Edwards and the institution.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power Dynamic and Hill Culture

Capitol Hill is rife with uncomfortable power dynamics, given the age and authority gap between members of Congress and their much younger staffers.
Sarah Matthews (00:30):

“There really isn’t an HR department on the Hill... I know that there are many women…who have experience…some type of inappropriate behavior from their superiors.”
The environment allows behavior that would not be tolerated in the corporate world to go unchecked.

Specific Allegations Against Rep. Edwards

Two female staffers in their early 20s accused Edwards, 65, of borderline-inappropriate—even “creepy”—behavior.
Edwards elevated one intern rapidly to a scheduler role while she was still in college—signaling possible favoritism and blurring professional boundaries.
Notable Incidents:
- Skipped congressional votes to help a staffer decorate her Christmas tree at her apartment.
  - Matthews (02:49):
    
    “I would never want my boss stepping foot in my apartment or house. That just feels like such a weird boundary to cross.”
- Sent one staffer over 30 tubs of ice cream after a breakup.
  - Even the staffer called it “a little excessive” in texts.
- Made comments on their looks and bestowed lavish gifts:
  - Gave staffers matching guns (blue and pink), jewelry worth over $1,000, tickets to concerts (including "Hamilton" in NYC), etc.

The ‘Creepy’ Factor – Patterns of Behavior

Edwards’ advances weren’t overtly sexual, but they were persistent and uncomfortable.
He repeatedly suggested meeting outside work, invited himself over, and often disguised these advances as caring or friendly gestures.
Will Sommer (04:55):

“He said, you know, ‘This is one of the most heartbreaking days of my life’” [after one staffer quit].
The behavior extended to hiding these outings or gifts from other staffers, reinforcing their inappropriateness.

Impact on Young Staffers and Lack of Recourse

Young staffers face a dilemma: risk their coveted positions by pushing back, or endure unwanted attention.
Matthews (06:10):

“No one gives you a playbook for how to navigate that... It just highlights like what a fucking pathetic loser this guy was.”
Matthews emphasizes that plenty of members are professionals, but “unspoken” predatory behavior remains widespread.

Congressional Accountability – Or Lack Thereof

Sommer (07:47):

“You have to be a real big-time creep...for the House or Senate to take action.”
Congress operates outside the normal structures of federal or corporate oversight; punishment is often minimal and left to political convenience.
House Ethics Committee's recommendation was simply censure—not expulsion (08:26).
GOP response: Most avoid addressing or condemning the behavior; little to no push for resignation.
Contrasted with Democrats, who have pushed out problematic members more readily.

The Trump Factor and Broader Implications

Sommer draws a link between Republican resistance to addressing misconduct and loyalty to Donald Trump, noting that taking any allegations seriously would set a precedent with uncomfortable implications for Trump and other party figures (09:39).

Memorable, Odd Details

Edwards’ advances took bizarre, almost juvenile forms:
- He created a custom Adam Sandler puzzle as a date invitation.
  - Sommer (12:03):
    
    “It’s so crazy to me that a congressman would have this much time to just like plot all of this out and go on, I don’t know, like the custompuzzles.com and put all this together.”
- Gave out concert tickets, expensive gifts, and persistently tried to insert himself into the women’s personal lives.

Context: The Strange North Carolina Seat

Chuck Edwards’s seat was previously held by Madison Cawthorn, ousted after making wild allegations about orgies and drug use among lawmakers (15:49).
Sommer jokes, “these people have real problems,” referencing the streak of problematic representatives from this district.

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:30 – 02:00: Sarah Matthews describes Hill culture and power imbalance.
02:00 – 04:55: Discussion of specific creepy behaviors and detailed allegations against Chuck Edwards.
06:10: Matthews discusses emotional toll and systemic issues for young staffers.
07:47 – 08:26: Limits of Congressional accountability; discussion of censure vs. expulsion.
09:39: Sommer links Republican cultural handling of allegations to Trump loyalty.
12:03 – 13:55: The custom Adam Sandler puzzle and other memorably odd gestures.
15:10 – 16:16: How Edwards hid his actions from other staffers; context about the weird legacy of the congressional seat.
16:40: Closing thoughts on the district and constituents.

Notable Quotes

Sarah Matthews (02:49):

“I would never want my boss stepping foot in my apartment or house. That just feels like such a weird boundary to cross.”
Will Sommer (04:55):

“He said, you know, this is one of the most heartbreaking days of my life. I mean, just really inappropriate and just weird. Weird ways to interact.”
Sarah Matthews (06:10):

“No one gives you a playbook for how to navigate that... It just highlights like what a fucking pathetic loser this guy was.”
Will Sommer (07:47):

“You have to be a real big-time creep in Congress for the House or the Senate to take action.”
Sarah Matthews (12:57):

“It's obviously so creepy, but it is just downright pathetic. Like what are you doing spending time making this girl a puzzle?”

Final Thoughts

The episode sheds light on both the specifics of the Chuck Edwards scandal and the ongoing, systemic issue of unchecked misconduct on Capitol Hill. Both hosts express hope that political and public pressure will eventually force Edwards out of office, but also criticize the culture of silence and inaction that has long enabled such “creepy” behavior. The story is not just about one representative—it’s a window into deep-rooted problems in congressional oversight and organizational culture.

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Transcript20 lines

[00:00]
A
Welcome back to the Bulwark. My name is Will Sommer. I'm joined today by Sarah Matthews. We are here to discuss a real creep in the House of Representatives, a guy named Chuck Edwards. And I had to have Sarah here because she's a former congressional staffer herself. Now, the backstory here is that earlier this week, the House Ethics Committee recommended a censure for Edwards, who is a North Carolina Republican, for possibly violating sexual harassment rules against staffers. Sarah, when you saw this story, you know, as a former staffer yourself, what did you make of all this?
[00:30]
B
Yeah, unfortunately, I feel like the Hill runs rampant with this type of behavior where you have this power dynamic of senators and congressmen and women who are working with people who are much younger than them typically. Like in this case, you look at Chuck Edwards, he was 65 years old, and the women who have accused him of inappropriate behavior were women in their early 20s. That is how Capitol Hill is made up of. And there's always been stories of these members of Congress maybe being a little weird, where they're going out and drinking with their staffers and they're putting themselves in these types of environments. But at the end of the day, we have to remember that these politicians are in charge and that they control the employment of these folks. And so they're just. It's a very different environment than like, say, a corporate America where I don't think you could get away with this behavior maybe as easily. There really isn't an HR department on the Hill. So I looked at this story and I thought, unfortunately, I know that there are many women on the Hill who have experience, maybe if it's not even at the hands of a member of Congress who's doing it, but they've experienced some type of inappropriate behavior from their superiors, whether that be, you know, men or women who are above them in employment and in the rankings in the offices. And so I just, it didn't really surprise me. But reading some of the specifics of what he did for these women was particularly creepy. So that did surprise me a little bit.
[02:01]
A
I mean, there's so many crazy details here. So, I mean, this involves, involves two female staffers in their 20s, one of whom he like, weirdly elevates to like a really high position. I think she was an intern. And he said, you know, you should be a scheduler while she's still in college. And so kind of making her like a full time employee, you know, if I'm understanding the report right. And there's a lot of stuff that is like, it's not like assault or like really, like, you know, anything that rises to like, like what we might think of as a previously, like a meaty level. But there's a lot of like, creepy, weird behavior. And, and, and I, I've heard primarily from female reporters on the Hill, where it's just like these old guys, you know, and it's like, well, if you want to get the scoop, maybe we got to go on a date tonight. Like, just weird, gross stuff. And there's such a pattern of behavior laid out here in this report. What are those details that you mentioned that really jumped out at you?
[02:50]
B
Yeah, no, and I think you're right that this is an unspoken thing in Washington where this is a pattern of behavior with these old men who are typically, you know, spending time away from their families. In the case of Chuck Edwards, he's married, but, you know, they spend a lot of time in Washington away from their families. And, and yeah, maybe they look at these staffers as, oh, well, this is my family here. But it's really inappropriate when you look at what he was doing for these young women. One of the instances that struck me was that he skipped votes to go over to one of the staffers houses to help her decorate her Christmas tree. I can assure you, I worked on the Hill. I would never want my boss stepping foot in my apartment or my house. That just feels like such a weird boundary to cross. I don't think that, that, that is appropriate to, for him to come over and do something like that and also just to skip votes. Like, you're also skipping out on doing your job because you want to be spending time outside of the office with this younger staffer of yours while you're married feels really odd. And then the other one that really struck me was there was this picture that was included in the report of the. I believe it was like over 30 tubs of ice cream that he sent to one of the women after she went through. I believe it was a breakup and he sent her 30 tubs of ice cream. And she even said in the text messages to him that she thought it was a little excessive. And I'm like, I don't, I don't understand what he's trying to do there. If he maybe like, you know. Yeah, you mentioned there's no instances where he tries to sexually assault them or any of the language in his texts to them or anything that is sexual in nature. I think that he made some comments on their looks, but it's not like he's proposing any sort of sexual activity between him and either of these women, but still, like, the. The lines that he was crossing. It's just inappropriate for a boss to be doing this to women whose employment he has in their control.
[04:55]
A
Yeah, exactly. I mean, the ice cream thing is crazy. He basically, like, you know, had some courier doordash, whatever, take, you know, 30 tubs of ice cream. And it's in the report, just all his ice cream. And over and over in these text messages from the staffers he proposes. He's kind of like, he's very much, you know, advancing his closeness with these staffers and saying, well, why don't I come over to your house? Why don't we go out tonight? Whatever? And then they're saying, that won't be necessary. It's too much. You know, I mean, it's. It's just creepy, weird stuff. You know, just in case people are wondering about this Christmas tree thing. To be clear, this was not a Christmas tree decorating party or anything. I mean, this is very much him inviting himself over and saying, I'd love to help you. You know, alone. He did yard work on one of their house, their apartments, or what have you. I mean, it is. You know, Axios has done a lot of great reporting in the lead up to this. People really want the gruesome details. And one of it was he gave the staffers matching guns, one that was blue and one that was pink, you know, gifts of jewelry, I think, worth over $1,000. And just over the way he would talk to them or send messages. That was like, when one of them finally quit because she felt, you know, my boss is a creep. I'm out of here. That he. He said, you know, this is one of the most heartbreaking days of my life. I mean, just really. Just really inappropriate and just weird. Weird ways to interact.
[06:11]
B
No. And it makes me sad for these women that they had to endure that, because you shouldn't have to decide between pushing back on your boss's creepy advances like this and saying no, because obviously there is just this inherent power dynamic where he controls their employment. So even if these are unwanted advances, advances on his part, like, what are these women really supposed to do? You know, getting a job on Capitol Hill is. It's highly competitive and very sought after. When you're starting out in politics particularly, that's where Most people in D.C. get their start. People always say, that's one of my biggest tips to people when they want to start a career in politics. I'm like, you need to intern on the Hill or get a job on the Hill and work your way up and then you can kind of branch off and figure out what you want to do from there. But it's a really good starting point. So to think that these were young women just starting out their careers and then having to deal with this unwanted attention from their creepy old boss who's married. Like, no one gives you a playbook for how to navigate that. And so I, I just feel sorry for them that, that that was their experience starting out in Washington, having to deal with this. And I will say that I worked for plenty of members so who were great, great members and would never do anything like this. And there are plenty of them who make up the Hill. But unfortunately there is a lot of this type of behavior where like you outlined with reporters and some of these members being creepy to them. And it's just, it's unfortunate because it is kind of one of those unspoken things in Washington.
[07:47]
A
I think it says a lot about Chuck Edwards that this has risen to the level of the House Ethics Committee because, like, you have to be a real big time creep in con for the House or the Senate to take action. I mean, it's as you said, I mean, this is like pretty common behavior there. And one of the challenges in this in Congress is that unlike if you were doing this at a federal agency or at a corporation, there's not really like Congress is kind of its own thing. And so the amount of oversight or punishment for someone like this is really only going to be as much as their colleagues see fit to do or is maybe politically acceptable to them. So there's really a lot of leeway these members have.
[08:26]
B
Yeah. And what struck me is that the House Ethics Committee didn't recommend that he be expelled. They just recommended that he be censured. And it, I mean, now that these, they're out of, they're on recess for August, it seems like this censure wouldn't even potentially come until September if it does end up happening. But to me, I would think that there would be more Republicans who are saying, look, he clearly crossed the line and this type of behavior is unacceptable on the Hill and that he should resign and step aside. But you're not really seeing that. You're kind of seeing people not address there, want to talk about it or point to the ethics investigation. And it just, it's interesting to me to see this all play out as we're having the Max Miller debacle play out and Corey Mills and all these other Republicans who are kind of facing different serious allegations when it comes to abuse or sexual abuse or whatever it is. And then you have this situation as well. And when I look at Democrats, though, you know, they forced Graham Platner out of the race, they forced Eric Swalwell to resign. And you're not really seeing that similar push or pressure on the Republican side, which is pretty interesting too, not to
[09:39]
A
dwell on it too much, but I think ultimately that comes down to Donald Trump. Right? Because as soon as you start taking these allegations seriously, you know, then you have to wonder, you know, in the case of, let's say Corey Mills or Max Miller who are both accused of domestic violence, you know, then you have to say, well, wait, maybe sometimes women make true allegations. And then what does that tell us about Donald Trump?
[09:59]
C
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[12:03]
A
one thing that struck me about this and this is like these messages are so weird. They're so lovelorn. This is like I, I think unfortunately a type of guy many women are familiar with that I'm only becoming conscious of as a type of guy, older guy, you know, as I age is that like these like guys who are just like decades and decades younger and just like, are just acting in these weird and like lovey dovey ways with young women. And it's like, what are thinking, man? You're like this mid-60s congressman. You know, this young woman's not interested in you in this. We have to hit some of these other, other weird things he did, you know, including he gave one of the staffers a puzzle, like a custom puzzle with a note on it with a picture of Adam Sandler. And it was saying, you know, do you want to come to this Adam Sandler show with me? And it's so crazy to me that a congressman would have this much time to just like plot all of this out and go on, I don't know, like the custom puzzles.com and put all this together. I mean, what did.
[12:58]
B
It's obviously so creepy, but it is just downright pathetic. Like what are you doing spending time making this girl a puzzle? And I just, I have to imagine what is his wife thinking that he's doing these kinds of things now that it's open and out there publicly that he's doing these types of things for other women. I can't even imagine being in a situation where if my boss basically asked me on a date with a puzzle, I mean, how do you say no? Like without fear of being reprimanded or fired and that kind of unwanted attention. It's not fair that he subjected these women to it. At the end of the day, I think it just highlights like what a fucking pathetic loser this guy was. And I don't know if this is like some type of kink for him of like he like enjoyed like I've heard like, you know, the term, like pay pig before, I don't know if you're familiar with that, Will, but.
[13:51]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, we've gotten into this on the, on the Bulwark YouTube before.
[13:55]
C
Yes.
[13:55]
B
I feel like that might be what we're seeing play out where, like, maybe he genuinely didn't expect anything back from these women and just like spoiling them with these, you know, lavish gifts and taking them to concerts. And, you know, there was one report where he gave tickets to one of the women to go see Hamilton with her friend in New York City. Like, I mean, I don't get. I don't get it. Like, clearly that might be what's playing out here and what type of kinky had. I don't know, but I just don't understand what he thought or if he was expecting anything in return from these women and how it made other staffers in the office feel. I mean, that obviously we're talking about what these two women had to deal with. But like, imagine you're on staff and you're watching this. I mean, it. It's just an all all over. It's just overall very, very creepy situation. But it just makes me think that the guy is like pathetic at the end of the day. But it's still, I. Accenture to me is not enough. I think that there needs to be more here. I think that he obviously crossed a line and it started to impact his ability to do his job and represent his constituents. If he's skipping votes to go decorate a Christmas tree with his staffer and things like that.
[15:10]
A
Well, and you know, to your point about other staffers, I mean, I think it's interesting in the report how clear it is that Chuck Edwards was kind of hiding this weird behavior from other staffers. Like he would say, I'm going to meet up with, you know, one of these staffers he's pursuing. But don't put that calendar entry that I'm like going out on, you know, dinner with you or to Las Vegas in one case. Don't put that in because it's really none of the other staffers business. Which also makes clear that it's not really a congressional matters related thing. That it's just kind of like his side creep thing, you know. The last thing I wanted to say is that this is the same district Madison Cawthorn represented. People Chuck Edwards previously best known for beating Madison Cawthorn in the primary. After Madison Cawthorn said, hey, they're having all these orgies up here.
[15:50]
D
Then all of a sudden you get invited to like, well, hey, we're going to have kind of a sexual get together at one of our homes. You should come. They're not like, what did you just ask me to come to? And then you realize they're asking you to come to an orgy or the fact that, you know, there's some of the people that are leading on the movement to try and remove, you know, addiction in our country. And then you watch them do, you know, a key bump of cocaine right in front of you.
[16:11]
A
And then he was quickly punished for that. So there's something weird going on with this congressional seat.
[16:16]
B
I know. I feel bad for the constituents there in North Carolina and that they've had to endure just some weirdos who have served them. And so hopefully we see a situation where he faces enough pressure after being censured and eventually steps aside. But if not, hopefully, then they will ultimately vote him out because a creep like this doesn't deserve to hold a seat in Congress.
[16:41]
A
I mean, these people have real problems. They just keep sending guys up to get into Peccadillo's up in D.C. well, once again, I'm Will Sommer. We've been joined today by Sarah Matthews. This is the Bulwark. Hit that subscribe button. We got a lot of great newsletters, so check out thebullwork.com Sign up for our newsletters. I write False Flag. That's a fun one, as always. So, Sarah, thank you so much and, and thanks for tuning in, folks.