Bulwark Takes – “Invading Greenland Would Be a Disaster (w/ Mark Hertling) | Command Post”

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Sam Stein (Managing Editor, The Bulwark)
Guest: Mark Hertling (Retired Lieutenant General)
Release Date: January 8, 2026

Episode Overview

This special episode, titled “Command Post,” features host Sam Stein and retired Lt. General Mark Hertling dissecting the ongoing U.S. intervention in Venezuela and the administration’s saber-rattling towards Greenland. The show’s goal is to unpack the military and national security dimensions of these stories, clarifying the stakes, challenges, and likely consequences from a practitioner’s viewpoint. The tone is direct and accessible, with Stein pressing for explanations and Hertling drawing on his broad military experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The U.S. Military Operation in Venezuela

[03:17]

• The U.S. executed a surprise special operations raid in Caracas, capturing President Maduro and his wife.
• The raid involved all branches: “I would venture to say that all four of those units... were participating in the snatch and grab operation.” (Hertling, 04:23)
• The operation included simultaneous Air Force and Naval strikes to neutralize Caracas-area military bases, Russian-supplied air defenses, and communication nodes.
• “They turned out the lights... jam and jam radars, but also take out electricity and communications capabilities.” (Hertling, 05:06)
• Approximately seven U.S. troops were injured, but none killed.

2. Media, Communication & Secrecy in Modern Warfare

[05:38]

• White House images of the Mar-a-Lago “Situation Room” monitoring Twitter sparked questions about operational secrecy.
• Hertling clarifies that real-time monitoring of social media (“reflections") is standard during operations to gauge public and enemy reactions:

  “Sometimes... we used to allow some communication channels to remain open specifically so we could tell how the enemy was reacting.” (Hertling, 07:41)

3. Confusion Over U.S. Goals in Venezuela

[08:49]

• Conflicting administration statements muddle the mission: Is the U.S. running Venezuela, just administering, or both?
• Extraction of oil wealth and U.S. enrichment are at least perceived as core motives.
• Hertling highlights the absence of an organizing authority:

  "My major scary moment was when President Trump was asked…who’s in charge? And he said, it’s these guys behind us. Well, that ain’t good enough for me.” (Hertling, 11:29)

• Historic parallels to post-invasion confusion in Iraq underline the importance of clear lines of responsibility.

4. Naval Interdictions and Risks of Escalation

[12:31]

• The discussion covers a recent U.S. seizure of an oil tanker escorted by a Russian submarine, raising the risk of direct international confrontation.
• Legal grounds hinge on international law and whether ships are properly flagged, with exceptions for sanctions or embargo enforcement:

  “The boarding of a ship... has got to be justified by international law.” (Hertling, 13:25)

• Hostile escalation—“escalation dominance”—is a real risk if Russian or Chinese vessels resist U.S. interdiction:

  “If they decide they don’t want that ship to be boarded... they can fire off a shot and then it’s Katie, bar the door. That’s escalation... And that’s how wars spin up.” (Hertling, 15:45)

5. The Greenland Controversy

[18:53]

• The administration’s push to acquire or even invade Greenland is framed as necessary for Arctic security.
• Hertling is blunt: The U.S. gains little, because "we already have what we need on Greenland.”

  “This is not a place you want to have a lot of troops to defend something.” (Hertling, 19:25)

• Lacking icebreaker ships and the ability to man posts, the strategic value of occupation is minor.
• Stein posits resource extraction (like rare earth minerals) as a motive. Hertling suspects it’s more a political distraction.
• Any offensive move would "be the end of NATO," per Sen. Mark Warner and affirmed by Hertling:

  “We’re basically countering an ally in a major offensive move. If you buy it, if you attack it, if you put troops there that you're not supposed to. It's a slight against Denmark.” (Hertling, 22:54)

• Denmark’s recent strong NATO contributions amplify the potential fallout.

6. What to Watch For Next

[24:09]

• Who is really in charge of Venezuela’s U.S.-backed administration? Appointment of envoys/general is crucial, but acceptance by Venezuelans is unclear.
• Clarity on operational planning across military and civilian agencies is urgently needed.
• Expect further ship interdictions and regional reactions (already, Colombia, Brazil, and Mexico are protesting).
• Leadership uncertainty at Southern Command (SOUTHCOM):

  “Have they placed a new guy in charge of that organization yet? I don't believe our Defense Department has. So are they just frittering away…” (Hertling, 25:23)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the practicality of defending Greenland:

  “I’ve actually been to Greenland once to a place called Thule, and it was during the summer—I froze my ass off. This is not a place you want to have a lot of troops to defend something.”
  (Hertling, 19:25)

• On U.S. post-invasion planning:

  “All administrations seem to really rely more on the military. And then they kind of smack their forehead... when they realize they haven’t calculated the rest of the plan.”
  (Hertling, 10:54)

• On risk of war escalation at sea:

  “If it’s in open waters... and they decide they don’t want the ship boarded... they can fire off a shot and then it’s Katie, bar the door.”
  (Hertling, 15:45)

• On military involvement securing oil fields (“personal scar tissue”):

  “We tried bringing in oil executives from Chevron, BP, and Shell. They came in, took a look around, and said, ‘We don’t want any part of this.’”
  (Hertling, 21:26)

• On the end of NATO if the U.S. moves on Greenland:

  “Yes, absolutely. We’re basically countering an ally in a major offensive move…this is even more insulting than one would see at face value. This is not good.”
  (Hertling, 22:54)

Segment Timestamps

• [01:10] – Show introduction and framing by Sam Stein.
• [03:17] – Walkthrough of the Venezuela operation.
• [05:38] – Situation Room media monitoring and cyber warfare.
• [08:49] – Geopolitical strategy confusion in Venezuela.
• [12:31] – Oil tanker interdiction and naval escalation.
• [18:53] – Analysis of Greenland as a strategic asset and the diplomatic stakes.
• [24:09] – What to watch for in the coming week; U.S. plans & regional responses.

Tone and Style

• Accessible, frank, and occasionally sardonic; expert but conversational.
• Stein plays the role of a well-informed but curious journalist, drawing out Hertling’s firsthand knowledge.
• Hertling is seasoned, honest, and sometimes wry about the limits of U.S. planning and the frequent reality disconnect between politicians and operational military needs.

Episode Summary in a Nutshell

Sam Stein and Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling deliver a clear-eyed, brutally pragmatic assessment of the U.S. military engagement in Venezuela and the administration’s posturing over Greenland. Hertling’s expert breakdowns highlight just how complicated, dangerous, and underplanned these actions are, particularly with the fog of conflicting goals and shaky civilian-military coordination. The notion of invading Greenland is exposed as both impractical and a potential NATO-ending disaster. Throughout, the episode emphasizes the critical need for clarity of mission, clear civilian leadership, and appreciation for the complexity of military operations—especially when global alliances and escalation risks are at stake.