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- [00:00]
Andrew Egger
Hey everybody.
- [00:01]
Sarah Longwell
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- [00:40]
Andrew Egger
up to $500 on Breeze mattresses at Tempur pedic.com Welcome back to Bulwark Takes.
- [00:46]
Sarah Longwell
I'm Sarah Longwell here with our very own boy wonder Andrew Egger who is rocking some green steel right now. Your eyes look incredible.
- [00:54]
Andrew Egger
Wow, that's very nice of you to say. I was, I haven't been so sure about my setup at my parents house here in St. Louis so that's, that's reassuring.
- [01:03]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah. This is probably not for the public, but I just want to tell you, you get handsomer all the time.
- [01:07]
Andrew Egger
Wow, that's man, it's great news for you.
- [01:11]
Sarah Longwell
That's great news for you, Andrew. You wrote a great piece for us this week titled Iowa's Rob sand tries a Different Kind of Populism. You were standing in for Lauren Egan on the opposition just like I stood in for JBL today on the Triad. Don't know if you read that, but it was worth reading. So you were talking about all the appeal of sand, who is Iowa's Democratic nominee for governor. I'm obsessed with Iowa. I did a state of the race if anybody wants to go see the breakdown of the candidates. I did that a while back on Iowa. I think this is an incredible state to watch. But why don't you walk us through your piece and tell us what is his new kind of populism.
- [01:48]
Andrew Egger
Yeah, I have always been obsessed with Iowa. My whole family's from there. I've been going back to cover the caucuses, you know, every four years, anytime I can, getting back to do any kind of reporting in the state that I ever can, but especially this cycle. I think for a lot of the same reasons as you. It is a state that has been more of like a cautionary tale than a, than a real opportunity for Democrats in recent cycles. It is maybe the, the, the place where we have seen this sort of Farm belt realignment from the Democrats to the Republicans play out most starkly. As of this moment, not a single one of the four representatives or two senators who represent Iowa federally are Democrats. And in the state government, the only statewide elected Democrat is this guy. It's Rob Sand. He is currently the state auditor. He has won reelection there. So he's won election twice as state auditor. He is now the nominee for governor. And it does not seem as though he is going to just sort of flame out here. I mean, he, he actually we've been watching his candidacy for quite some time. He has had a very strong run. He has a very strong message that is centered around his work as auditor. It is, he has kind of parlayed this into a competence and account focused kind of nonpartisan pitch which is married to a bunch of proposed sort of structural reforms that, that are all sort of populist flavored, but not in the same kind of way that we frequently see where, where it's this kind of, you know, anger based us versus them, kick the bums out because, you know, the, the villains have seized control. It is, it is a positive message. It is a patriotic message. It is a let's all come together and find some sol the conditions for better politics in the future. Not just like put more virtuous people in there, but actually make some structural reforms that will incentivize better politician behavior. And it seems to be taking effect. I mean, voters are noticing this sort of thing. It is obviously a good cycle for Democrats in general around the country right now. But when you look at how sand is doing relative to just the giant lead that Republicans have had in Iowa for the past few cycles, it is really striking. We've had a couple of polls just this week that show him essentially a tie race. They both actually show him in the lead, but within the margin of error. But this is very much a toss up race against Republican Zach Lane going into this November election.
- [04:15]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah. So you were out there, you were at some of his rallies, right. Doing some shoe leather, reporting out on your beat. Tell us what you saw.
- [04:24]
Andrew Egger
Yeah, and rallies is honestly an overstatement when it comes to these events that, that Rob sand does because his whole shtick, and this has been the case, you know, throughout his time as, as auditor and it for some other Iowa politicians, like very famously Chuck Grassley. He hits every county. He is going around the state. He is doing events everywhere. So I was in a couple of very smaller, very smaller, more small, more sparsely populated rural counties right on the Iowa Missouri border. Decatur county and Clark county in south central Iowa. And these were events at the local county fairgrounds and a local distillery. They were probably drawing about 100 people each, if I'm spitballing. But this was very much kind of just what he does. He shows up, he does these, these things where he does his, his, you know, tight 10 or whatever, and then he throws it open for questions. I talked to a lot of people who have, you know, who not only turned out for this, but have seen him at these sorts of things before. So he has built up a sort of base of, you know, just kind of a recurring brand. He's a known commodity throughout the state as, as not just sort of like, here's the Democrat who's running for governor, but here is this guy who has had this accountability focus for all of this time, who is running on that, who has this, you know, he, he, he, he has shown that he can convince a lot of people not to think of him the way they typically think of Democrats in the past. The question is, can he do that again now? And obviously it's a harder challenge than it has been in the past. Just because he's at the top of the ticket in a way that he has not been before. He's going to have to deal with what every Democrat in these situations has to deal with, which is a big bunch of targeted messaging against him specifically now, not just against his. Rob sand basically saying, this guy's a liberal Democrat. You can't trust him. You should think of him the way you think of every liberal Democrat out there. And if, you know, Republicans are successful in making that brand stick, he's going to have a much harder time in this race than he has in the past. But I mean, he, he has, he is out there campaigning. He is out there, you know, making the same pitch he has made before. And what he told me when I interviewed him was, look, the voters know who I am. I've been doing this a long time. I have been putting in the legwork. I, I don't hide what I think about things. People just don't really buy this notion that I am a, you know, a California Lib in Iowa, moderates clothing. And he seemed pretty confident that he will be able to land this plane.
- [06:50]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah, I mean, let's talk about some of the conditions currently going on in Iowa that make for, I think, better opportunities than Democrats might have had in the past. So, first of all, and I, when I did my whole thing on Iowa, it was a few weeks ago, and so I Don't have these numbers, like, right at my fingertips now. But Donald Trump is well underwater in the state. I mean, he is down at like, a 42% approval rating. I think last time I looked. Obviously, tariffs have hit Iowa particularly hard, you know, and they need a lot of fuel for things like the cost of fertilizer. Like, all kinds of things have really, really hit Iowa almost harder than a lot of other places. And so Trump is. Is not doing well in the state. And Kim Reynolds, who is the Republican governor who is not running again, is partly not running again because she's so unpopular. And they've got. So they've got these economic issues. They also have something called cancer water. Like, they've got big issues with the water there. A lot of people getting cancer for things that are in them.
- [07:55]
Andrew Egger
Agricultural runoff is kind of the primary culprit. There seem. Seems to be the primary culprit. Yeah, it's a. It's a big str. Problem. They're all talking about it a lot.
- [08:03]
Sarah Longwell
And there was one more thing that I was thinking about that is unique to. It's okay. Oh, it was the. It was Kim Reynolds abortion ban. It come up. It came up in all of our groups when we did Iowa, where people just felt like it was too restrictive. They were frustrated about it. And so those conditions, I do think, and the. And then the overall national conditions create an opening that Democrats maybe haven't seen in a while. And I know that sand is out there talking a lot about affordability. Is he doing. Doing something different, though, than maybe the way other Democrats are talking about? Is he talking about it in a way that's just super localized? Because it does seem to be landing well for him.
- [08:42]
Andrew Egger
Yeah, I think that. That one of the things that that is. Is helping sand out in particular, is the way that he is able to kind of like, marry his own sort of personal brand with some of these issues. He's basically saying, look, like there's a lot of structural issues in our country right now. There's a lot of structural issues facing our state. And he has specific policy recommendations for some of these things. Like, for instance, he does talk about the abortion ban at six weeks. He does talk about the school voucher program that has hit.
- [09:11]
Sarah Longwell
That came up a lot, too. They're closing schools in Iowa because of this.
- [09:15]
Andrew Egger
Right. It's hit. It's hit in particular some of these more rural school districts pretty hard just because it's, you know, it's a transfusion of cash out of the normal public school budgets and going to these private schools. Now, he has not said, it's interesting to hear him talk about these things because he is rarely willing to say, let's just rip this out root and branch. These programs that Republicans have passed. He would not be able to do this anyway. Even if he were elected governor, he is almost guaranteed to still have a Republican legislature that he would be working with, or at least that's the smart money here. And so the way he tends to talk about it is as well, look, we have had one party control of the state for a decade. They have been able to pass all of these partisan wish lists and sort of put them into effect sort of willy nilly without a lot of oversight, without a lot of accountability, without a lot of, you know, kicking the tires on these programs and that we're seeing negative effects from that sort of thing. And so what he is basically saying is he's making this pitch where, where it's about him and what he would do here. But it's also just about, you know, kind of like an iron sharpens iron, get rid of the one party governance sort of thing where he's like, look, like, let's, let me get in there. I have, I bring a different perspective to this. I can be a handbrake on some of these programs that we've seen a handbrake on. Republicans just kind of like doing whatever they want without even having to think too hard about it. But also let's, let's like stress test some of these programs. Let's, let's, let's nibble away at some of these edges in terms of reform. So for example, the vouchers thing is one thing he talks about at length where he's basically just like, first of all, let's, let's be able to audit them. I mean that's, that's part of what he is, what he is saying as, as, as sort of part of his pitch of being a responsible ste of public money. He says let's increase accountability for where those tax dollars are going, what they can be spent on. And then he also wants to means test who can actually access that voucher money. He doesn't want the wealthiest Iowans to be able to dip into that and pull dollars out of that program. So you can kind of see where it's Democrat leaning. I mean, it's to the Democrat side of where Iowa policy currently is. But it is a combination of his kind of nonpartisan pitch and just the fact that Iowa has, you know, tilted further to the right in terms of policy now than it really necessarily actually is in terms of the makeup of the state where, yes, Republicans are winning a lot, but it is not like an R+20 state. Right. I mean, this is a place that has had Democratic congressmen, you know, in the past 10 years, in the past eight years or so even. And there's a sense that, you know, the super majority legislature under Kim Reynolds has pushed some things too far. He's taking advantage of some of that.
- [11:52]
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- [12:12]
Sarah Longwell
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- [12:21]
Andrew Egger
So good.
- [12:22]
Sarah Longwell
So good.
- [12:23]
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So good.
- [12:24]
Sarah Longwell
New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores. Now get ready to save big with up to 60% off brands like Rag and Bone, Levi's, Adidas and free people. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for, for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Yeah. Hey, I had one question for you because I, I looked at the same polling that you did that just recently came out and, you know, it was kind of a. I certainly was like, hey, dens are cooking in Iowa. Like, even if this is not quite, because I have PTSD from Iowa polling, as I think many people in the country may. And so I'm careful about Iowa polling, but it does seem like something's happening. But I was interested in the fact that sand is polling a couple points ahead of Turek, who also also has a shot. Sand is obviously running for governor, but Turek's running for Senate. But, but Turek is. He's the, he's the guy who's the. He's in a wheelchair. He's the Paralympic. Or he's the, the athlete. He was an Olympic athlete. Is it called Paralympics? It is, right? But he's the guy who's like pushing himself up people's stairs to talk about the, to sort of knock on doors.
- [13:43]
Andrew Egger
I campaigned just like I played basketball, outworking everyone, pushing the hills, crawling the stairs, all just to have a conversation with everyday Iowans. Did not matter the party.
- [13:54]
Sarah Longwell
But still, he was a couple points behind sand in the polling, which I found interesting. What do you make of that? Is it just that Rob sand has a pretty distinct brand in the state already?
- [14:04]
Andrew Egger
That is the main thing. I mean, I think that when. One thing that Democrats have liked about sand, even before he got in the race, even when he was just thought of as a. As a possible candidate for the governor's race, is here's a guy who has demonstrated an ability to run ahead of his party because of all the reasons we've talked about. He has the personal story, that is a pretty simple and straightforward personal story of him wanting to get in to the auditor job to cut down on waste and fraud of the Republican legislature while he's in there getting kind of sick of him poking around and passing a bill to kind of gimp the auditor's office and him saying, well, in that case, I'm gonna run for governor and get a little more ability to, to do this kind of work that I want to be doing for the people of Iowa. So that has been. I mean, it's a 30 second elevator pitch. People can understand it. They can get behind it. They have liked what they've seen in that respect. The flip side of that is that because he is sort of running away from the Democratic Party in a lot of ways. And when you hear his pitch, it's amazing. I mean, he sounds kind of like an independent running or an independent who feels like he has sort of grudgingly had to pick a party because that's the way politics works. And he has a whole spiel about how Iowa should have an open jungle primary and all these things. But, but because of that, you know, it allows him to run ahead of the brand, but it also raises questions about how strong his coattail effect will be. Right, because he's basically saying, not you, Iowan, should reevaluate your entire opinion of the Democratic Party and maybe all the Democrats who are running. It's basically set that aside in my race and when you think about me. And so I. It is interesting to see guys like Turek outperforming expectations. I want to, I want to caution people, they have lot of ground to make up Democrats in Iowa. I mean, the, the, the voter registration gap between registered Republicans and registered Democrats in the state is wider now than it was, you know, when they swept the, the 2022 midterms. It's. It's wider than I think it's ever been, or at least that it's ever been recently. I mean, I mean, for, for a guy like Turek to To win against for a sort of a normie Democrat like Turek to win against sort of a normie Republican like Ashley Hinson would mean that Democrats had really cleaned up and really turned some kind of corner in the state of Iowa. I think that is still less likely than Hinson just winning it. And I'd say SAND is the one that is a toss up. But, I mean, I've been reading some Iowa authors who have been kind of pouring some cold water on this. Laura Bellon, who is a really good progressive reporter for the site Bleeding Heartland, she has been kind of saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold your horses, guys. This is still gonna be really hard for Democrats. And. But that was even that narrative is maybe already a little bit out of date with all of the new stuff that has landed with the war in Iran. What you were just talking about, about additional affordability concerns, price of fertilizer, agricultural concerns. So, so it's not, it's, I mean, it's, it is, it is a much more interesting state even than I think was was thinking. As I started covering SAND a couple of months ago, I had initially thought, really, that's the race to pay attention to. But it is actually going to be kind of an interesting thing to see what happens in a bunch of statewide races this year.
- [17:14]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah, everybody should be watching Iowa. It's good. It's also good in, you know, as everybody, as we're talking about DSA candidates and all this, like, they're showing us a model for how to be competitive in a state like Iowa. And I think that's worth us really spending some time on. Last question. And then we'll get out of here. You. I saw this that at the beginning of every one of these campaign events. Or maybe it's not at the beginning, but just at the campaign events. SAND makes people raise their hand to identify which political party they're in. And then he invites everyone to sing the first verse of America the Beautiful. Is that cheesy or does it work?
- [17:53]
Andrew Egger
It is funny. So, first of all, I am maybe the wrong person to ask this, because when you talk to Democratic strategists or even people on the SAND campaign and they bring this up, they're always kind of like, now, I know this sounds cheesy, but it really works. Trust me. And I'm kind of like, it doesn't sound that cheesy. I'm such a sucker for these patriotics. I mean, I even like Lee Greenwood, God Bless the usa. I'm like, that's a tune, you know, so, like it is possible that, you know, it would hit other people differently. I did not find it cheesy in the slightest. Even kind of being forewarned that it's coming. And the whole thing is. It's very choreographed, right? I mean, it's. If you're in here, you know, and you're a registered Republican, don't worry, we're all going to clap for you. Raise your hand. And a few people do. There are always a few in there. Everybody claps. Now raise your hand if you're a, if you're a political independent, if you're a registered independent and a few people do. And everybody claps. And then he doesn't have the Democrats raise their hand, but he does have everybody clap for him anyway. And then, you know, he has this whole sort of self deprecating. I'm not going to pick the tune, but I'm sure there's somebody out there who can, who can carry a tune. And that's kind of fun because, you know, then the people in the audience tend to put somebody on the spot. They're like, I know she over there is a good singer. And, you know, so it's, it is actually kind of sweet and sort of like socially like cool and rich. And then they sing it. And I don't know if I'm just like starved for this stuff, but like, I was kind of choking up a little bit when it happened. Even though I hesitate to say that because I'm supposed to be, you know, the, the reporter who kind of holds himself above and to the side and isn't sure whether you're supposed to say the Pledge of Allegiance alongside other people from the press pen or sing the national anthem, that kind of stuff. But no, I found it very moving actually. And I wish we saw more of that kind of stuff out there on the trail.
- [19:30]
Sarah Longwell
Well, I gotta tell you, we moved to a new neighborhood a couple years ago and we did fourth of July with the neighborhood for the first time last year. And they have a sing along of America the Beautiful and the Star Spangled Banner and some of the other patriotic songs. Gets me every time. You'll never get me to stop. And I also, I had like the Lee Greenwood, like the cassette tape of Proud to Be an American as a kid. Because at every state fair or not state fair, town fair, county fair, whatever, someone always sang that in a talent show, always saying it. And so I. It actually makes me mad now to hear it in this context because I also used to just feel warmly nostalgic towards it, even after I grew out of thinking, hey, that's a bop. At some point I was like, this is actually just a horrible earworm. But, but I, I don't agree, Sarah.
- [20:19]
Andrew Egger
I, I, I don't think too hard about it. You know, I don't, I don't have it on my playlists or anything like that. But when it comes on, I'm still sort of like, yeah, you know, it's, it is not a top 10 patriotic or not top five patriotic song, but it might be in the top seven. I don't know.
- [20:34]
Sarah Longwell
Okay, well, you know what, guys? You can still celebrate America and not celebrate Trump this fourth of July. Go sing America the Beautiful and get out there. Andrew, thanks for going to Iowa, even though I think it was for your personal reasons, but way to be a reporter for us. I appreciate it. All right, guys, have a happy fourth of July. I'm Sarah Longwood. This is Andrew Egger. Go subscribe to all the things. See you later. Happy 4th.
- [21:05]
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- [21:28]
Sarah Longwell
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Sarah Longwell
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