Bulwark Takes: "Is Mike Waltz Saying We Should Bomb HOSPITALS?"

Host: Will Saletan, The Bulwark
Episode Date: April 20, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes focuses on the alarming escalation in rhetoric and policy around the ongoing war in Iran. Will Saletan explores recent statements from top Trump administration officials—most notably Ambassador Mike Waltz—justifying threats against Iranian civilian infrastructure and, implicitly, civilians themselves. The discussion challenges the ethical boundaries being crossed by U.S. leaders, questioning when "good guys" start adopting "bad guy" tactics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Escalatory Threats Against Iran

• Trump’s Post on Truth Social (01:00):

  • “If Iran doesn't accept our terms for ending the war, the United States is going to knock out every single power plant and every single bridge in Iran. No more Mr. Nice Guy.”
  • Will Saletan breaks down the meaning: Trump signals a willingness to ignore Geneva/Hague Conventions protecting civilian infrastructure in war.

• Will Saletan (01:25):

  • "When Trump says 'no more Mr. Nice Guy,' he's not talking about table manners. He means we’re not going to fuss anymore about all those annoying rules in the Geneva Conventions... about targeting civilian assets like bridges and power plants."

2. Ambassador Mike Waltz Defends the Threats (ABC Interview)

• Jonathan Karl asks Waltz (03:02):

  • “Is [Trump] prepared to do what he threatened ... destroy every power plant and every bridge in the country?”

• Waltz’s Response (03:14):

  • "All options are on the table. Absolutely. Unlike his predecessor, President Trump doesn't publicly take options off the table ... giving [adversaries] leverage."

• Saletan’s Analysis (03:25):

  • Waltz’s answer embraces the idea that civilian infrastructure is fair game to maintain negotiating leverage.

• Waltz further asserts (04:26):

  • “We could take that infrastructure out relatively easily. The Iranian air defenses have absolutely decimated.”

• Waltz Denies War Crimes (04:42):

  • "Attacking destroying infrastructure that has clearly and historically been used for dual military purposes is not a war crime."

• Saletan Pushback (04:52):

  • Notes Trump’s blanket threat covers ALL bridges/power plants, not just those with a military purpose.

3. Conflating Civilian and Military Targets

• Jonathan Karl presses (05:12):

  • Points out Trump mentioned “every single bridge and power plant,” not just those supporting military infrastructure.

• Waltz’s Evasive Response (05:30):

  • “That would be an escalatory ladder.”

• Saletan Unpacks the Euphemism (05:32):

  • "Where is the ladder going? ... If nothing is off the table, guess where we’re headed."

4. Waltz on Meet the Press: Hospital and School Strikes

• Welker asks about civilian casualties (07:50):

  • “Are you saying the United States is okay targeting civilians? The people of Iran?”

• Waltz’s Half-Start on ‘Civilian Infrastructure’ (08:34):

  • Begins to say “civilian infrastructure ... is absolutely a legitimate target,” then pivots to “commingled” targets.

• Waltz doubles down (09:14):

  • “The Iranian regime ... has a long history of actually deliberately hiding military infrastructure in hospitals, schools, neighborhoods.”

• Saletan's Reaction (09:25):

  • Challenges why Waltz would invoke hospitals/schools unless arguing that hitting them could be justified.

• Waltz (10:35):

  • “It’s perfectly acceptable in the rules of land warfare ...”
  • Then pivots to: “The Iranian regime is launching drones and missiles directly into civilian homes, hotels, and resorts.”

• Saletan’s Moral Concern (10:45):

  • Suggests Waltz is arguing: If Iran flagrantly commits war crimes, the U.S. is justified in “ambiguous” war crimes.

5. Energy Secretary Chris Wright Echoes the Logic

• Fox News Segment (11:35):

  • On threat to obliterate infrastructure: “The president is using every way he can to get leverage ... He uses uncertainty in different ways.” (11:47)

• Saletan’s Analogy (11:59):

  • Compares the strategy to Michael Corleone from The Godfather: “Maybe I’ll kill your whole family, maybe I won’t. ... Uncertainty gives us leverage. Smart.”

• CNN Segment, Jake Tapper raises war crime concerns (13:10):

  • “Are you not concerned that those proposed strikes on civilian infrastructure ... would constitute a war crime?”

• Wright’s Response (13:20):

  • “The President's looking for maximum leverage ... Of course, a lot of it supports civilians as well. But no, I’m not worried about that.”

6. Elise Stefanik on Threats of Genocide

• Trump’s ‘Obliterate a Whole Civilization’ Threat (14:32):

  • Tapper presses Stefanik: “What did you think when President Trump threatened to obliterate the entire Iranian civilization?”

• Stefanik’s Response (14:39):

  • “He was focusing on the Iranian regime. And what did it do? It brought the Iranians to the table. It led to the ceasefire.”

• Saletan Highlights (15:42):

  • Notes Stefanik repeatedly justifies the genocidal threat simply because “it worked”—six times repeating “it brought the Iranians to the table.”

7. Concluding Warnings

• Saletan’s Wrap-Up (16:00):
  • Sums up the bipartisan official line: Threats to destroy civilian targets and even threaten genocide are justified as effective tools.
  • "That is how a once great country, our country, becomes one of the bad guys. We don’t need to make America great again. We need to make America good again."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Will Saletan (01:25):
  “When Trump says 'no more Mr. Nice Guy,' he's not talking about table manners. He means we’re not going to fuss anymore about all those annoying rules in the Geneva Conventions... about targeting civilian assets like bridges and power plants.”

• Mike Waltz (03:14):
  “All options are on the table. Absolutely.”

• Mike Waltz (04:26):
  “We could take that infrastructure out relatively easily. The Iranian air defenses have absolutely decimated.”

• Mike Waltz (09:14):
  “The Iranian regime ... has a long history of actually deliberately hiding military infrastructure in hospitals, schools, neighborhoods.”

• Chris Wright (11:47):
  “The president is using every way he can to get leverage ... He uses uncertainty in different ways.”

• Stefanik (14:39 & 15:42):
  “He was focusing on the Iranian regime ... it brought the Iranians to the table. It led to the ceasefire.”
  Repeated multiple times, justifying threats of destroying an entire civilization as effective negotiation.

• Will Saletan (16:00):
  "We don't need to make America great again. We need to make America good again."

Important Timestamps

• Trump’s post and initial breakdown: 00:58–03:02
• Mike Waltz (ABC, on “all options on the table”): 03:02–04:52
• Jonathan Karl confronts Waltz with “every” bridge/power plant: 05:12–05:30
• Waltz on Meet the Press (“escalation ladder”): 07:03–07:22
• Welker asks about civilian targeting, Waltz pivots: 07:50–09:25
• Waltz on Iranian use of hospitals/schools: 09:14–09:50
• Saletan on Waltz’s implications: 09:53–10:45
• Chris Wright on negotiation “leverage” (Fox/CNN): 11:35–13:34
• Elise Stefanik justifies Trump’s genocide threat: 14:32–16:00
• Saletan’s closing critique: 16:00–16:50

Summary Takeaway

Bulwark Takes presents a stark warning about the shifting moral foundations of U.S. foreign policy. Through detailed analysis and direct quotations, Saletan reveals a growing acceptance among senior officials—not just of targeting civilian infrastructure, but also of using the threat of mass destruction as a central tool of American negotiating strategy. The episode forcefully asks listeners to consider where such normalization of “ambiguous war crimes” leads and calls for Americans to reclaim not just national greatness, but goodness.