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- [00:00]
A
Hello again. Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark, joined by Will Salatin, who is just like a video maven. Look at him. Guy just can't get enough YouTube. He's addicted. Well, it's so good to see you, man.
- [00:14]
B
You, too, Sam. All right, all right.
- [00:17]
A
How about that weather in D.C. not bad.
- [00:19]
B
What the hell happened? We suddenly have something resembling a fall here. That's crazy.
- [00:23]
A
No, it's not fall. It's like perfect summer, which is we get maybe once every decade. It happened three days in a row.
- [00:29]
B
What they do is they give us a sauna for two solid months. Everything, everything feels like fall.
- [00:36]
A
So true. All right, we're not here to talk about the weather. For that, go to the Weather Channel. We're here to talk about maga, Marjorie Taylor Green, Andrew Schultz, and whether or not. We're not going to. I don't want to overstate it. We're going to talk about Trump's base of support and the status of it. Let's just put it that way, before we get to it. Subscribe to the feed. You get weather, conversations and politics. All right, Will. So two things. Ca. We're going to start with Marjorie Taylor Greene. She's such an interesting character to a degree, but she's now in this phase of her career where she's sort of feeling abandoned by Republicans. And she's got these quotes in this Daily Mail piece that really piqued my interest where she says, I'm going to read it. I think the Republican Party has turned its back on America first and the workers and just regular Americans. She said, I'm not afraid of Mike Johnson at all. She's basically saying on a couple of different fronts. I think one was foreign aid, Doge cuts. She was very critical of Trump over. Or I guess she was critical, I should say, over the military operation in Iran. She is, I don't know, expressing some reservations. How would you describe it? What did you make of it?
- [01:47]
B
I. So, all right, I'm a skeptic. I'm just going to say up front, that's fine. I'm a skeptic of this. This reads to me like she's unhappy with the relationship and she wants a little more attention to things she cares about. And it's, no, not Marjorie.
- [02:03]
A
How dare you?
- [02:07]
B
So I'll just confess up front. I don't think she's serious about leaving, but she's, like, threatening to leave. I mean, she talks in there, as you said, about Mike Johnson. I'm not afraid of Mike Johnson, Sam. I cannot Believe that Marjorie Taylor Greene has made me sympathetic to Mike Johnson.
- [02:21]
A
To Mike Johnson.
- [02:23]
B
Sam, let me ask you, you're dealing with people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and you have a margin of like three of them, right? You can't lose like more than two of them. Isn't it amazing that Mike Johnson held together the Marjorie Taylor Greene's people who keep threatening to leave the party over their pet cause and got.
- [02:40]
A
Well, I don't know how much credit to give him versus Trump because I think Trump swoops in and says, you better fucking get in line. But yeah, it is, it's remarkable. Certainly Kevin McCarthy couldn't have done it. Like, we know that because he didn't do it. So, yeah, it, the little margin Mike Johnson has and the crazies in the caucus he has to deal with, it has been a bit of magic, I would say.
- [03:00]
B
Yeah. And okay, I'm, I'm reading this interview where she makes these threats. Okay, so I'm Mike Johnson. What, what is it you want from me? What, what is it you're threatening to leave over? And Sam, none of it's politically popular. I mean, like, she wants to, she wants. Okay, so she's upset about the wars, whatever it is. Sam, can you name a military operation that was more antiseptic than going in with B2s, like dropp bombs not even being seen? Nothing happened to us. We bombed. Nothing happened to us and we're done. We're out of there. And like, that's wars. That's like we're in big.
- [03:33]
A
That's worse.
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B
That's. I mean, that's crazy, right?
- [03:37]
A
Yeah.
- [03:37]
B
Or the other thing is, like, we need to cut more from the budget. Like the budget cuts are unpopular. They're unpopular. That's why, that's why Republicans don't do it because they're a functioning political party and there's a whole bunch of people in Congress who would lose their seats if they cut too much.
- [03:51]
A
Well, let me just say I hear you, but that this is going to get us to the Andrew Schultz portion of this. But let's stay with Marjorie Taylor Greene for a second. There is something I think that I take away from this, which is, I mean, she's waking up to like a reality that we all recognize, which is they promised all this stuff, right? Like, there were like explicit promises. We're going to cut X doge is going to cut a trillion. We're not going to like even have any military operations overseas. So there were promises that were made that have been reneged upon. And I Think she's looking at being like, wait a second, like why is all this happening when you said you would do why?
- [04:28]
B
Right. So let me, let me drill in for a second on the wars business. Okay. We went into Iran, got out, nothing happened. Still unhappy about what she calls foreign aid and like spending money on the wars. Like spending money on the wars. Is she talking about Ukraine?
- [04:45]
A
Yes.
- [04:46]
B
Is she talking about the money that we are no longer giving? We're now selling. Trump's going to sell military equipment to NATO, to Europe and they're going to spend. Like she's upset about that and she's going to call that spending? Because that is not about spending.
- [05:01]
A
Look, she's not a stickler for details, but, but let me read you one quote that actually really was interesting. She was saying this about Mike Waltz. Who national advisor who got caught in the signal gate crap and then got relegated to UN ambassador. What a demotion. Anyways, he's. She said about Mike Waltz, how does he get awarded after signal gate? Greene wondered, isn't that weird? Who awarded him that? And she's not wrong. Like she's not wrong, but it's Trump awarded him.
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B
Who's going to tell her? Who's going to tell her? Who. Who gave him that job?
- [05:35]
A
Who gave him that job? What the fuck? No, this whole thing's really interesting. I mean there's clearly just areas of agreement here that she has. She talks about Republican women being hurt by Republican men. I mean it's just a, it's just a really wild interview. I suppose. I understand that you are skept skeptical of her and I don't deny that this is all sort of self interested but like, I don't know, the fact that she feels like this will position her well is interesting to me.
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B
Sam, what does this woman know about positioning? I mean, okay, this is like she's.
- [06:06]
A
One of the most popular Republicans in the country.
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B
She is I among who among the big.
- [06:11]
A
Among Republicans.
- [06:12]
B
Okay, so what drives me crazy about again, I'm. I hate, I hate her. I hate this woman for making me see the world from Mike Johnson's point of view. That's what I hate her for. I'm sitting here as my Mike Johnson. I'm like Marjorie Taylor Greene is sitting in what I believe is a Trump +37 district.
- [06:30]
A
Yeah, it's absurd.
- [06:31]
B
Not just Georgia, it's like the most right wing district in Georgia. She has and she's talking here about like they've left the common people and they keep nominating these people who can't win in Georgia. Like she knows anything when they put, when they, when they float Marjorie Taylor Greene in a poll, she loses by like 15, 17, 20 points. She gets crushed because she's too right wing for Georgia, for Georgia, okay, let alone America. And she's trying to give the party political advice about how to reach the voters she doesn't know anything about Mainstream.
- [07:04]
A
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- [09:51]
B
Yeah. Or, or that in Marjorie Taylor Greene's case, that you. A party means people have to get along and make compromises with each other. And he's got a whole bunch of people in this coalition like Marjorie Taylor Greene who don't understand that. But let me go back to Andrew Schultz, because you raised him. Okay, first of all, Sam, what am I not getting here? That this guy is supposed to represent the manosphere, but his big issue is ivf.
- [10:11]
A
Like, hey, don't, don't say that men can't be pro ivf. Get out of here.
- [10:16]
B
Men are absolutely the most pro. With the exception of women. With the exception of women. So, so that's really. That's kind of weird to me. Look, I gotta say, I didn't know who Andrew Schultz was until the 2024 campaign. And I watched Trump go on the podcast and watching this. Okay, I'm just going to confess. I thought Andrew Schultz in the podcast was pretty reasonable compared to like other people that Trump did interviews with.
- [10:42]
A
100.
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B
Pretty. Pretty sensible guy. Right. And so his complaint, like, well, you know, Trump said he would fund IVF and he's not doing it. Like, okay, that makes sense to me. But is Andrew Schultz aware that there is a political party you can join if you want the government to like, support health care, like ivf, like it's called the Democratic Party. And you could do that.
- [11:03]
A
That's the thing. And that's the thing. That's the next step. It's like, yeah, you know, the sort of realization, the awakening that there is another party out there that does all these things that they like and that they want and that they think is good, but for some reason, because I guess trans athletes or something, whatever you want to put it on, they just can't get over the hump. And I think that's really, that's really the determining factor is can Democrats get them over them. But I think about that a lot, too. It's like Andrew Schultz surely knows there is another party out there.
- [11:32]
B
Right, right and right. And he's also, he's also one of his complaints, stop the wars. Andrew, I can introduce you to a lot of my friends on the left who would agree with you about that. They would agree with you about the IVF and the wars and all that. I mean, you're welcome to go all the way around the horseshoe and join if you'd like to.
- [11:48]
A
All these guys really love Bernie Sanders. I mean, that's the thing. They really do love Bernie Sanders. And he just wasn't there for obvious reasons. All right, so this kind of leads us to the big picture question, which is is there a fraying of the base or any like, slippage for Trump? And I think you and I are in agreement, which is no, probably not. And if it was or if it is, it's like relatively minor. And I think the reason we agree, but I'm putting words in your mouth is because we've been down this road a couple times before where it's like, oh my God, look, they're final turning on the guy and then in the end they all just sort of rally around him, especially in moments of despair for him. And so I don't suspect something major is going to happen. But am I wrong?
- [12:30]
B
So I agree with that. Except here's just my little carve out for it. Every, I'm wrong every time. I think Trump's base is going to leave him over an issue, over an issue like, you know, the, the, the wars or the spending or whatever, they.
- [12:45]
A
Always come back around January 6th.
- [12:47]
B
January knows. Yeah, yeah, but, but these people do have a general vibe that they don't trust the government and they don't, like, they believe in conspiracies, they believe in cover ups. It is possible for them maybe to, for Trump to lose them over Epstein. Epstein, you know, again, liberals look at this and like, you got to be kidding me. This is the issue. But I mean, here's, I'm just going to quote what something that Andrew Schultz said when he said one of his complaints with Trump. He says the second he started talking, this is during the Epstein cover up question. The second he started talking about Obama, like, Obama has this, you know, yet Trump sent out Tulsi Gabbard to say Obama rigged this, Obama had a rig. Like, talk about that. Instead Of Epstein. That was what Trump said. Schultz says the second he started talking about Obama, I was like, oh, he's guilty, Trump. Oh, he's guilty. Like why are you talking about Obama and treason? See that sensibility that Trump is covering something up. And remember what is Marjorie Taylor Greene's like trademark issue? It's like Pizzagate QAnon. It's like, you know, space lasers from.
- [13:51]
A
The Jews, which she happens to be. Right.
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B
We operate that from the basement of Comet Pizza. But, but like she, her whole thing was like kids like grooming and all that stuff.
- [14:07]
A
Yeah.
- [14:08]
B
And Epstein, the Epstein story is all about that. So. So Sam, I do wonder whether, yeah. Like all of this song and dance Trump is going through to say, don't look over at the Epstein files. That was all planned by the Democrats. Go talk about Obama and stuff. Will the Marjorie Taylor Greene's and the Andrew Schultzes and the people who believe in that stuff leave him over that?
- [14:29]
A
It's a really good question. I don't know. I mean there is some truth to the idea that like you live by the conspiracy, you die by it too, politically speaking. Then again, it's like we've been down this road so many times. I will just leave you with this. UMass Amherst did a poll where they looked at sort of regret among voters and among other things and they found some slippage but nothing like crazy thought the interesting number was that 86% of Trump voters would say they would vote for him. Again, you look at that actually is like not nothing, honestly. But this is taken way away from an election and they probably would rally behind him if it was a binary choice. Only 31% were willing to say they feel very confident they made the right choice. Sorry, I should say that 31% were unwilling to say they feel very confident they made the right choice in voting for Trump. So I don't know, maybe there's something happening here, but I need more. I need to see more.
- [15:24]
B
Yeah, it's really hard to tell from these polls. So on the one hand, the pollster themselves, they warn you, like this is statistically insignificant. These are very small things. But within that range, if it is true that he's losing a few percent, that that swings an election. People forget this because Trump goes around, oh was a landslide election, the 2024 election. Just like the name the three pivotal states, Michigan and Pennsylvania, under 2%. Those margins were under 2%. Wisconsin, that margin's under 1%. Very small losses in the Trump coalition would swing those states. So that's a presidential election and you go around the country and you see that pattern again and again, again, it doesn't take that much of a decline in the Trump base to swing those elections to the Democrats.
- [16:09]
A
All right. All right. Well, thank you, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you guys for watching. Appreciate that, too. Subscribe to the feed where we have more conversations just like this and we'll talk to you soon.
- [16:32]
B
Sam.