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B
What do you think makes the perfect snack?
C
Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.
D
Could you be more specific?
C
When it's cravenient. Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.
D
I'm seeing a pattern here.
C
Well yeah, we're talking about what I.
B
Crave which is anything from AM pm.
C
What more could you want? Stop by AM PM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience ampm Too much good stuff.
D
Hey everybody. Timo from the Bulwark here. The TEMU Oprah has dropped her latest interview with Cash Patel, the director of the FBI and his girlfriend, country music sensation Alexis Wilkins. They sat down on the white couch with Katie Miller herself. She has as mentioned a couple podcasts or today a knack for bringing in Trump cabinet officials right at the moment that they are under scrutiny for a little bit of a soft touch. Stephen Miller knows something about that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I had to do that to you. I'm taping this late at night and I just had to watch Katie Miller interview Kash Patel and Alexis. So just let me have that one. I want to run through some of the clips. I gotta tell you the main takeaways here that I've got Are. This is extremely awkward. And it's. It's a very awkward and cringe situation. Just like the bureau director for, you know, federal law enforcement top cop sitting down in the soft focus with his much younger girlfriend, just kind of talking about their long distance relationship. Like, why? You know, it's just. It's just not something that you'd see generally from FBI heads. And the fact that Cash is, like, whipped enough to have to do this is pretty rough. It's a pretty rough look. He doesn't. I wouldn't say he comes off alpha off. Very awkward. It doesn't seem like a guy is fully locked in on his job of going after bad guys. And you watch the interview, he's locked in on protecting his reputation. He's locked in on keeping his girlfriend happy. He is locked in at pushing back on his critics. He's locked in on, you know, talking about these kind of, like, political scandals and, and what the Biden people said about him. But, like, when it comes to the job of counterintelligence, going after bad guys, of protecting the country, it seems like he's got a little bit of a wandering eye. So let's start here. We'll start with. Before we even get to the clip, we have this little kind of, you know, high school news division card that you put in right at the front. It's like, we did this interview. Oopsy doopsy. Like, the FBI director should be doing really real work right now. And so we got to put this card in at the front that says the interview is taped before the horrific shooting of Brown University. So now, you know, Cash was just ignoring his responsibilities with all the other crimes out there. But, you know, they are obviously aware and they could have sat on this. I don't know. Is the Katie Miller recording schedule that important? I don't. I don't know that she's got to be responsive to her advertisers. Nobody's watching this podcast. As we've discussed. Maybe just to protect her husband's colleague, she could have just held up, but she didn't do that and said, we put in the little card. This happened before the shooting of Brown. I don't think that the card does anything to alleviate the questions, such as why did Cash Patel announced they had caught the shooter at Brown when they hadn't, when they got the wrong guy? Why is Cash Patel so focused on doing, you know, a little media tour with his girlfriend when there are real bad guys that he is charged with going out there and investigating? Why now at the Time of this taping. Do we still not have an arrest in the Brown campus shooting? An MIT professor got shot today. It's not too far from Brown. I don't, I'm not saying I know anything that could be a coincidence. Probably is a coincidence, I guess, but we don't know. Like you would think that federal law enforcement would be on high alert, wouldn't be totally focused on this. And instead, you know, the PR team over there is dealing with the director's interview with on his colleague's wife's podcast. So there you go. But interview was tape before they want to make sure they let you know that we get in pretty early to questions that have been raised by my colleague. Will Summer drew attention to this based on some reporting he had done and some sourcing from some disgruntled former FBI agents. The Castro tells taking the government plane he's required to take, but he's making an ordinance of trips to see his girlfriend. He went to go see her singing, a wrestling match, et cetera. Will did a lot of reporting on this. FBI spokesperson came out, called us Fake news. Administration calls us Fake news from time to time. It's what they do. Um, Cash has asked about that reporting and the amount of time he's spending flying to visit his girlfriend on taxpayer funded jet. And let's listen to his answer.
E
It's ironic that they're saying, oh, you're going on vacation or you're going to see your girlfriend perform. And if I was actually abusing it, I would go see every one of her shows. I think I get to like 15%.
B
Just to clarify, how often has he traveled to see you since January 20th?
F
Oh gosh, I think.
D
What?
F
Nashville? You've been in Nashville?
E
Yeah, I've been to her house a couple times with her family for the holidays and you know, birthdays. I've seen her perform this year, I think three times.
D
He's only been to 15% of her shows. Only been to 15% of her show. That was my excuse when my mother called and asked me why I wasn't going to class as much in college. She says she keeps hearing him on Widespread Panic tour. I'm like, mom, I've only been to 15% of the panic shows. Okay. Only been to 15% of the shows on tour. And then when a follow up question was given about like, okay, but then how many times you gone to Nashville? Let's just play that part one more time.
E
Yeah, I've been to her house a couple times with her family for the holidays. And, you know, birthdays. I've seen her perform this year, I think three times.
F
Yeah.
D
Oh, gosh, let me think about this. What three? Couple, maybe some holidays. Birthday. Had holidays and birthdays, performances. Don't know, don't have a number, so quite a lot. It's only been one year, you know, I mean, if you asked me how many times I've been someplace in this year, I would, I would know or at least be able to stay in the same ballpark and I would. I've been to New York a lot this year. For example, if you said how many, Tim, how many times you've been to LA this year? Once. What? I want to do the jubilee taping, you know. How many times have you been to Miami this year? I haven't been to Miami this year. How many times I've been to New York this year, I'd say, huh. Well, I'd have to think about that. Quite a few. I don't know, probably six, maybe seven, maybe five. I don't know. But it's been quite a bit. That is the answer you give when you've been somewhere a lot. And so Cash seems like he's been going to visit his girlfriend a lot, I guess is the, the takeaway there. So an attempt at cleanup. Katie did her best to help him clean that up. And what he came away with was he's been to Nashville enough times that he can't quite say how many and that he's been to about 15% of his girlfriend's concerts. Again, totally fine. It's a normal percentage to have gone to. It's maybe even a little low if you have a job as like an accountant or whatever, like a mid level PR executive. But when you're running the FBI, when you're the nation's top cop, it's a notable amount. It's a lot of D list country music to be seen. I want to play one more on his travel here.
E
And I think it's ironic that members of Congress who, by the way, travel exclusively on government funded programs and go see their family and friends wherever they live, whenever they want, not to mention the junkets they take overseas, are the ones criticizing us and me specifically for, for daring to go see my girlfriend, my family, my elder parents in South Florida, or when I get to, on the rare occasion, go home to my house in Las Vegas, you know, it's home. And you know, that's. It's been home for five years for me. So I enjoy doing that. And it's hilarious when they hold up, you know, photos of me in Las Vegas, and they say, what are you doing in Vegas? And I was like, so I can't go home now. And they just don't even do their basic research. But it's. It's the ultimate hypocrisy. They do it more than I do. And they see this as a point of clickbait.
D
He's not just going to Nashville and just go into rural Pennsylvania to see her sing in front of a wrestling audience. They're also spent a lot of time in Vegas. Sounds like where. Where Cash lives. Like, initially, he lived at a rich guy's house, which I find kind of strange. Rich old man gave him his house. You know, again, I don't exactly. Does that person have any business? Do they have any crimes that they might want to cover up? I don't know. There's other weird stuff happening. I don't know. Just generally, like the FBI director, you wouldn't want them, like, living in another rich person's house. Maybe it's his own place now, but at the beginning, you know, I can't speak to him. I'm not following exactly where Cash is living minute by minute, but for a while, he was. He was living in someone else's house in Vegas.
G
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D
Anyway, he's upset that, as you mentioned in the clip, he's like, oh, I can't go home now. But later he talks about how he likes his famous favorite restaurant is in Vegas. They go out to a restaurant together there. So it's like, all right, well, you're going to Nashville. You're going to see 15% of her concerts, and you're going to Vegas. It's a lot of girlfriend time. It's a lot of personal travel. For the FBI director, I will say, I mean, you know, maybe she could come to D.C. and stay in your apartment a little bit more. That'd be something to think about. Just one thing I should mention. Maybe we shouldn't look into this too much. Everybody who's watched this feed knows I firmly believe that Tyler Robinson killed Charlie Kirk. All the evidence points to him, and that he'll be convicted by a jury of his peers. If I'm wrong, people can come back and find this clip. But given all the conspiracies out there, I did think it was kind of strange that Stephen Miller's wife would make this caveat.
B
Do you find that the people often who are submitting these death threats are the ones who are actually actioning it, or is it more of a Charlie Kirk type situation? If we all believe that Tyler Robinson was the person who shot and killed Charlie, that it is someone who is not going to post online. Like, has political violence and the death threats picked up since Charlie's murder? Or is it about the same for where it's been, say, since January 20th?
E
I think this January 20th, it's maybe picked up a little bit. I just think it's gotten a lot more attention.
D
If we all believe that Tyler Robinson was the person who shot and killed Charlie. If what? If maybe a little slip of the tongue there, but I think when you're with the FBI director, when you know that there are a lot of conspiracies out there about that, you should probably be a little bit more precise in how you talk about it. So just one other thing that caught my eye. We're getting towards the fun part of the show, which is where it gets really awk. So stick around for that. It starts here when Katie asks Cash how he got the job. Great question. We're all wondering that, and here's his answer.
B
How did that all come together? Did you know you always wanted to be the FBI director?
E
No. I think Katie Miller had a lot to do with it. But I was sitting in our friend's house and Florida during. We were all doing all the transition work. And so, actually, I think, as I remember it, I was one of the last agency heads he appointed. And I was sitting in the living room, and I got the call, and you can imagine my reaction.
D
Maybe that's a joke there. I don't understand. Some kind of, like, inside joke, but, like, Cash saying that Katie Miller helped get in the job. And then big laughs. Like, is that right? Is that right? Is like the wife of the political advisor and immigration advisor to the president. Did she have input in the choice for FBI director? Crazier things have happened. And a weekend talk show co host runs the military now. So I don't. I don't know why Katie Miller would have a lot to do with him getting the job. I don't know why he has the job. He seemed to take that question more, like, literally, which was, thank you for your help. I guess Katie Miller may have had some role that was something worth following up on. And then, like, he's talking about how he called his mom and how he's excited. So, again, these answers aren't. Aren't demonstrating a ton of focus on. You know, I got the job because I've been dedicated a long career of commitment to supporting federal law enforcement and to ensuring that people in the country are safe. You know, there's kind of things you'd expect, like, a Chris Ray to say in that moment, not like thanking a random political advisor's wife for their help and then talking about calling their mom. It's just. It's not a guy that's demonstrating a lot of confidence. Now we can get on to the more fun stuff, because this is what it all. It's all about. Right? And you're running the FBI. Haven't. Haven't talked a ton about the work, like, the people that you're arresting and the plots that you're covering and the work that you're doing in the counterintelligence space going after spies. And we had a big takeout in the board this week about how the FBI is doing a horrific job going after Chinese spies that didn't come up in this interview because there doesn't seem to be a lot of focus and interest between Katie Miller and Kash Patel and his country singer girlfriend on, like, you know, protecting the country from foreign spies. It seems to be a lot of interest in, like, protecting their personal brands as influencers. And to that end, let's hear a little bit more about our influencer director. This one is maybe a point of personal privilege, but he's asked his favorite musician, and let's just hear the answer here.
B
So I know, Cash, you're a big country music fan.
D
Mm.
B
What's your favorite. Who's your favorite artist?
E
George Strait.
B
Really? Even outside of country? Because I was half joking 100%.
E
All day long.
F
He's so serious.
B
He just got, like, the Kennedy center honors, didn't he?
E
He did, yeah.
B
Did you meet him?
E
I did not meet him there, but Alexis, for my birthday, surprised me by taking me to the George Stray concert, and I'd never been before in my life, so that was pretty awesome.
D
It's cute that she got him to take this with George Strait, but, like, George Strait is his favorite musician. Even Katie seemed like that sounded strange. It's like, okay, well, he's now dating a country music star, so is he just trying to come up with the only country musician he knows? And George Strait is great. He's a traditional Texas country singer. Long resume, but it's like, that's your favorite musician, but you'd never seen him in concert. You're a grown man. He's a grown man. He's my age. Like, he's one thing. Like, I had never seen Oasis in concert, but that's because they've. They've been on, you know, hiatus for 20 years. Like, George Strait tours and such. I. I don't know. Again, it just seems fake. It doesn't. Doesn't seem real. He seems fake at all. At all. Like. Or he seems like a person that maybe he doesn't like music and he's making it up because his now girlfriend is a musician. Maybe that's it. I don't know. That one jumped out at me. Let's hear a little bit more about them. Let's hear about their secret talents.
B
This is for both of you. Separate answers. What's your secret talent?
F
Ooh, you go first.
E
I don't have one.
B
You gotta have a secret talent. We all have one.
E
What's yours?
B
I think I can see over the horizon and see, like, what's bad or good in the future.
E
I think I can compartmentalize it's just not natural.
D
They're not natural. They're awkward. It's awkward. They're uncomfortable. His secret town is compartmentalization. I mean, I guess that would make sense that that would be what he would bring up as he's sitting here talking about his favorite place to Uber eats from and his favorite musician. And, you know, his dating origin story is a little meet cute. You know, while he's supposed to be running the nation's law enforcement bureau. He's definitely come. He's definitely compartmentalizing. He's compartmentalizing, you know, the very serious job that we've tasked him with. He's putting that little box for a while while he does Temu. Oprah. So I think. I don't know. And I think we kind of get a sense for why that might have been the thing that popped to mind in that moment for his secret talent after he said he didn't have one. That might have been really the honest answer. He doesn't really seem to have that much talent. Two other little strange moments that I wanted to end with. One was she asked, who's the queen of country music? Let's watch this again.
B
Who's the queen of country music?
E
She is.
F
Very sweet.
B
I need a polymark it now on when the two of you are getting engaged. Like, I will be there front and center.
D
Neither of them can name anybody. And then she weirdly cuts to a poly market ad. Maybe she does have advertisers that she has to fulfill content for. But, like, it doesn't seem like catchphrase likes music. I think he probably couldn't name a female country singer. I guess maybe Alexis can't either. You know, I don't know. It's. It doesn't. It doesn't seem authentic. I watch a lot of interviews with people who, like, actually like music. And, like, these are. These are questions they could generally answer. Lastly, they have a dream dinner party. And, well, that. That also just gets weird.
B
If you could host a dinner party with three people, dead or alive, who's at the table and what are you eating? Okay.
F
I would pick Ronald Reagan. My papa. I know I'm not a celebrity, but my. My grandfather meant, like, the most in the world to me, and he knows everything about history, and he's the reason that I, like, got into loving and appreciating history and veterans. He was a veteran, all that stuff. I could talk about my papa forever. So I will move on. Third one is hard because that was kind of as far as I got in my head.
D
Okay? I mean, Ronald Reagan and Papaw and Cash can't follow the rules either. And the awkward laughter. And Katie's trying so hard. And you can see why the ratings are what the ratings are on this show. So I appreciate you guys watching my show because I don't knock it out of the park every episode. You know, you got some hits and misses, but you know, it ain't the Katie Miller Podcast. Guess we'll leave it at that. Subscribe to the Feed subscribe to the Feed. Comment below and tell me what your dream dinner date would be. Three dinner guests. I'm guessing you could come up with something. Let us know to prove to me you made it to the end of this podcast episode. Let us know in the comments section and we'll be talking to y' all again soon.
B
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You need a week to catch up.
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In a snowy cabin. Take a week long vacation and save over $200. Book now@vrbo.com what do you think makes the perfect snack?
C
Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.
D
Could you be more specific when it's cravenient?
C
Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at am, pm or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.
D
I'm seeing a pattern here.
C
Well yeah, we're talking about what I.
B
Crave, which is anything from am, pm.
C
What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Ampm. Too much good stuff.
Date: December 17, 2025
Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: The Bulwark Team (Primary speaker this episode: Tim Miller)
Main Guests Under Discussion: Kash Patel (FBI Director), Alexis Wilkins (country music singer), Katie Miller (Interviewer, podcast host; wife of Stephen Miller)
This episode of Bulwark Takes centers on Kash Patel, the controversial Director of the FBI, and the fallout from his much-mocked interview on Katie Miller’s podcast with his girlfriend, country singer Alexis Wilkins. The Bulwark’s Tim Miller delivers a withering analysis of the interview’s content, tone, and implications, raising serious questions about Patel’s priorities, professionalism, and the perception of the FBI under his leadership. The episode’s core theme is: Is Kash Patel actually focused on the grave responsibilities of leading the FBI, or is he prioritizing his image and personal life?
“It’s just. It’s just not something that you’d see generally from FBI heads. And the fact that Cash is, like, whipped enough to have to do this is pretty rough... It doesn't seem like a guy is fully locked in on his job.”
— Tim Miller (04:12)
“If I was actually abusing it, I would go see every one of her shows. I think I get to like 15%.”
— Kash Patel (06:52)
“That is the answer you give when you’ve been somewhere a lot ... It’s a notable amount. It’s a lot of D list country music to be seen.”
— Tim Miller (07:57)
“It’s the ultimate hypocrisy. They do it more than I do. And they see this as a point of clickbait.”
— Kash Patel (10:26)
"If we all believe that Tyler Robinson was the person who shot and killed Charlie..."
— Katie Miller (14:00)
"You’d expect... the FBI director to say... 'I got the job because I’ve been dedicated... to supporting federal law enforcement...' Not like, thanking a random political advisor’s wife for their help and then talking about calling their mom."
— Tim Miller (15:34)
“George Strait.” (on his favorite artist)
— Kash Patel (18:07)
“His secret talent is compartmentalization... He’s compartmentalizing... the very serious job that we’ve tasked him with... He doesn’t really seem to have that much talent.”
— Tim Miller (19:56)
Bulwark Takes delivers a stinging take on the current FBI director, painting a picture of a leader more concerned with image, relationships, and personal perks than the nation’s safety or the bureau’s reputation. The episode is an incisive, at times darkly comedic, critique of contemporary political-media culture and raises real questions about the erosion of norms in high office.
For listeners (or readers) who missed the episode, this edition provides all the key context, criticisms, and insights, with an extra dose of snark for good measure.