Bulwark Takes – "Is the Minneapolis Killing an Inflection Point for Trump?"

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Bill Kristol
Guest: Sam Stein
Date: January 11, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Bill Kristol and Sam Stein tackle the fallout from the recent killing of Renee Good by an ICE agent in Minneapolis. The discussion explores whether this tragic incident represents a genuine inflection point politically and morally for the Trump administration, ICE’s role, and America’s political landscape. The conversation also dives into the administration's embrace of radicalism, foreign policy developments, ICE accountability, and broader trends of authoritarian acceleration within the U.S. government.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Minneapolis Killing as a Political and Moral Moment

• Sam Stein emphasizes that while many moments feel pivotal, this one is "very clarifying" for him due to its exposure of both the administration’s and the public’s willingness to justify state violence.
  • "This is not just like sort of a political moment. It’s a really, it’s a moment of morality. It’s a moment about our news industry, about how we consume information, how we process it..." (02:00)
• Both hosts note shock at how rapidly and shamelessly officials—from Trump on down—rushed to blame the victim and rationalize the state’s actions before full evidence had emerged.

2. Administration's Response and Media Manipulation

• Bill Kristol highlights the premeditated strategy of the administration to immediately shift blame and avoid normal protocol (like suspending the officer or investigating).
  • "Not even a pretense of we have to invest... Not even a pretense of any of that..." (03:16)
• Sam Stein points out the strategic use of pretexts—like anti-fraud operations—to justify overwhelming federal intervention in Minneapolis, framing it as a "wholesale attack" on an American city.
  • "They’re... attempting to withhold small business funds, attempting to withhold school... It’s a wholesale attack on an American city. I mean, that’s what it is." (08:17)

3. ICE’s Escalating Role and Public Backlash

• Discussion about ICE’s transformation from a law enforcement agency to a tool for political and physical intimidation, especially post-incident.
• Public sentiment is shifting, with calls to radically reform or even abolish ICE gaining traction.
  • "Not everyone is in the Bill Kristol radicalized camp of abolish ICE. I will say more people are getting there. They’re finding their way to Bill." (10:45)
• Kristol argues for serious congressional reforms, tying future funding explicitly to oversight and behavioral changes.

4. Congressional & State-Level Action on ICE

• Talk of legislative efforts (Chris Murphy, among others), but doubts about congressional appetite for a government shutdown over ICE.
• Suggests more immediate action may come from state-level laws (e.g., banning masks for federal agents in Democratic states).

5. Foreign Policy: Venezuela and Greenland

• Brief but pointed shift to Trump’s radical foreign policy moves—Venezuela’s regime change, threats concerning Greenland, and the resulting shock among global allies.
  • "Trump is, you know, giving interviews where we’re going to do Greenland, either the easy way or the hard way." (16:27)
• Sam Stein elaborates on the practical fallout—oil execs refusing to enter Venezuela, Europe holding emergency sessions over Greenland, and the general global uncertainty about U.S. intentions and reliability.
• Both note the self-radicalizing tendency of the administration, driven by an insular movement culture and a hardening base.
  • "The self radicalizing character of authoritarian movements is also a thing, and... we’re just seeing it in spades, don’t you think?" (22:29)

6. Authoritarian Acceleration and Internal Dynamics

• The conversation turns to how Trump’s second term, unconstrained by traditional guardrails, has created a feedback loop of radicalism among political appointees and young GOP operatives.
  • "There are Stephen Millers and Stephen Miller, you know, three quarter Stephen Millers and, and 125% Stephen Millers in some cases—true lunatics—all the way down." (25:18)
• Sam Stein observes that the path to power in Republican politics now rewards the most extreme actors.
  • "It creates another generation of Republicans who are just going to emulate what they did because that’s the path to more power." (27:49)

7. Epstein Files Controversy

• Frustration at the administration’s stonewalling of the legally required release of Epstein investigation files.
  • "They just basically stopped releasing these documents that they’re legally required to release..." (29:00)
• Discussion of potential remedies, but skepticism that Congress will act forcefully.

8. The Pardon Power & Erosion of Justice

• Sam Stein predicts a bookend to the Trump era: pardoning ICE agents at the end of his term, just as the term began with January 6th pardons.
  • "It would be an incredible irony, but also not entirely unpredictable, if towards the end of his term he issued a blanket pardon for everyone who was involved in an ICE operation." (32:15)
• Deep concern about "the semblance of a justice system" giving way to cronyism and retribution.

9. Public Reaction and the Limits of Polarization

• Despite the divided political conversation, both hosts notice real grassroots outrage crystallizing in spontaneous demonstrations—even in less-liberal areas.
  • "Fifty people just with anti-ICE signs, bullhorns, ‘Renee Good, remember her name,’ that type of thing... the fact that they decided like they had had enough and that they were willing to just stand there for no reason ... that seemed to signify something." (36:50)
• Stein expresses some hope that such grassroots objection reflects deeper unease across the country.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "This one is very clarifying for me for sure." – Sam Stein, on the Renee Good killing (02:00)
• "There was not even a pretense of any of that... Not even a pretense." – Bill Kristol on the administration’s response (03:16)
• "It’s a wholesale attack on an American city. I mean, that’s what it is." – Sam Stein, on federal actions against Minneapolis (08:32)
• "We have the opposite dynamic now... the accelerationism I actually think is probably coming a little bit from below." – Bill Kristol (24:52)
• "If you believe that ICE has been turned into sort of a, you know, Gestapo-like institution that’s there to enforce MAGA politics... what kind of... it would have to be like a very serious purging." – Sam Stein (11:20)
• "You start the term by pardoning all the rioters who attacked the cops. You end the term by pardoning all the cops who attacked the protesters." – Sam Stein (32:15)
• "It’s not a contradiction if your view of politics is friends and enemies." – Bill Kristol, on MAGA’s justification for state violence (35:55)
• "Normies frankly look at this and say that’s messed up. Like you can’t just shoot a woman in her face like that because you feel endangered." – Sam Stein (38:45)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:10–03:16: — Assessing whether the Minneapolis killing is a big political/moral moment
• 04:08–06:43: — Administration’s rush to judgment and ICE’s role; video evidence and accountability
• 08:17–10:45: — ICE as a political weapon, escalation against Minneapolis, and congressional/state backlash
• 13:57–15:38: — Congressional and state-level reform efforts, legislative challenges
• 16:12–22:29: — Foreign policy shocks: Venezuela and Greenland; Trump’s radicalism on the world stage
• 24:52–27:59: — Authoritarian acceleration, self-radicalizing movement, template for new GOP leaders
• 29:00–30:18: — Epstein files release controversy and legal impasses
• 32:08–33:53: — Trump’s pardon power and the collapse of justice norms
• 36:39–39:08: — Anecdotes of public protest, grassroots outrage, and societal sentiment

Conclusion

Kristol and Stein ultimately agree the Renee Good killing marks a deeply clarifying, if not singular, flashpoint: exposing the administration’s authoritarian acceleration and the urgency for both institutional and public pushback. While the response from officials is deeply concerning, the unexpected outpouring of grassroots protest offers a glimmer that political and civic opposition may yet form a meaningful check on the status quo. The episode concludes on a wary but attentive note, highlighting that the events of this week underscore just how radical and dangerous the current trajectory of American governance has become.