Is This the Sickest MAGA Scandal Yet?

Summary

Bulwark Takes – “Is This the Sickest MAGA Scandal Yet?”

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: March 14, 2026
Host: Sam Stein, with Tim Miller and Will Sommer

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Episode Overview

This episode zeroes in on what the hosts dub possibly “the sickest MAGA scandal yet”: the rapid and ugly downfall of Jake Lang, an openly racist January 6th participant who gets embroiled in an online pedophile sting. Along the way, the trio dissects the bizarre, cannibalistic infighting within MAGA’s far-right subcultures, especially the world of self-proclaimed “predator hunters.” They close by mocking the week’s “right-wing soap opera” – a spat between Megyn Kelly and Ben Shapiro – and Trump’s latest shoe-based Cabinet solidarity, all while highlighting the movement’s deepening extremism.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Jake Lang Saga: Hate, Absurdity, and Collapse

[01:51–15:14]

• Jake Lang’s Background

  • Described as “a rising up and coming hate monger in America” and “a J6 rioter” (C, 01:51).
  • Known for “whipping up hate against Jews, Muslims” and staging grotesque stunts at rallies, such as bringing animals for offensive “jokes.”
    • “This time he brought a live goat … trying to make a point about, you know, some vile thing about sex with goats.” (C, 02:51)

• The Pedophile Sting

  • Lang was caught in a To Catch a Predator-style sting by an online figure called “Zerg,” who posed as a 15-year-old girl.
  • Detailed how Lang’s supposed hesitation (“Unless you are under 18, I don’t care”) instantly shifted (“When do you turn 16?”) when he learned the target was 15. (B, 06:20)
    • “Poor negotiator. Didn’t even try.” (A, 07:06)
  • Zerg is part of a growing universe of self-styled “pedophile hunters” online, not always allies of the traditional right, often targeting figures as much for clout as for their stated missions.

• Turning on Their Own

  • Discuss why a right-wing “pedophile hunter” would target another far-right figure. Will explains that intra-far-right beef (e.g., being considered an odd, “optics” problem, or “part Jewish”) fuels these stings.
    • “Nick Fuentes and the Gripers hate Jake Lang … they see him as an optical— he’s putting a bad face on their ideology, or they say he’s a federal plant.” (C, 08:27)

• Lang’s Attempts at Defence (and Collapse)

  • Lang tried to defend himself by messaging another predator-hunter, Alex Rosen (“I Fight For Kids Online”) claiming it was all a misunderstanding for a “bikinis and burkas” protest.
    • “I was just recruiting girls for a bikinis and burkas protest … once I found out she was 15, I said, like, don’t do it.” (C, 12:02)
    • The hosts mock this explanation as a transparent deflection.

• Community Response and Fallout

  • Americans Against Islamification (Lang’s own front group) posted a hilariously low-rent video “disavowing” him— though still expressing hope to “welcome him back.”
    • “His own front group has disavowed him.” (A, 16:26)
    • “They still love Jake and he’s only temporarily suspended.” (C, 19:01)

Notable Quotes

• “He makes a lot of the guys we talk about look like … real wokies.” (C, 01:51)
• “If you’re the anti-Semite … I don’t know if you should go to a Jewish predator hunter.” (A, 11:23)
• “I’m shocked by the integrity of Americans Against Islamification … they’re showing more integrity than the Republican senators did when Donald Trump admitted to grabbing women by the pussy.” (A, 18:18)

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2. MAGA Infighting: Megyn Kelly vs. Ben Shapiro Feud

[19:13–27:41]

• Feud Genesis

  • Megyn Kelly and Ben Shapiro, two major right-wing media figures, are locked in an increasingly petty feud, initially sparked by Shapiro calling Piers Morgan “the Jerry Springer of politics.”
  • Feud is performative, with fake “friendship” invoked for rhetorical purposes.
    • “The idea that Megyn Kelly and Ben Shapiro are actually friends is complete nonsense. They’re obviously not friends.” (A, 24:23)

• Ideological Splits

  • The feud has deeper roots in the shifting, radicalizing right— Megyn Kelly increasingly aligns herself with the most conspiratorial MAGA circles (Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Nick Fuentes).
    • “She’s chosen to throw her entire reputation in with Tucker and Candace and like the more conspiratorial wing of MAGA.” (A, 20:23)
    • “It’s telling that she thinks the wind is pointing towards Tucker, Nick Fuentes, and Candace, not towards Ben.” (A, 27:18)
  • Ben Shapiro, increasingly isolated, is drawing a hard line on open antisemitism.

• Media Self-Parody & Ageing Out

  • The hosts gently roast the pettiness of the feud, suggesting it’s beneath Kelly (age 55) to “still be feuding online.”
    • “She’s ten years from Social Security … At some point, you just don’t need to care about [these feuds].” (B, 25:56)

Notable Quotes

• “She decided she wanted to, like, be a shit. An online shit.” (A, 27:16)
• “She streams, and she gets into imaginary online feuds, and pretends like she’s friends with people to the extent they’re useful.” (A, 26:11)

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3. Miscellany: Trump, Cabinet Shoes, and Eugenics Talk

[27:41–31:10]

• Trump’s Cabinet Shoe Uniform

  • Reports surfaced of Trump making Cabinet members wear matching Florsheim dress shoes.
  • Trump, asked about this on Fox, claimed innocence but confirmed gifting shoes to “spiffy up” the Cabinet.
    • “I never like cabinet members walking in on sneakers … So I’ll get them a pair of shoes.” (A, 28:08)

• Incidental Eugenics

  • Trump, on Brian Kilmeade’s show, veered into eugenicist language:
    • “Their genetics are not your genetics. … it’s a terrible thing.” (A, 29:00)
  • Hosts point out this is nothing new for Trump, referencing past reporting on his habit of quietly racializing people's traits.

• Cultural Downward Spiral

  • The episode ends with the trio reflecting on the throughline: from Lang’s grotesque prejudices and crimes to Trump’s enduring, open bigotry.
    • “There’s a through line to this trio episode. We start with Jake Lang talking about, you know, anti Muslims, anti Jews, and then we end with Donald Trump talking about eugenics. Great times.” (B, 31:01)

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Memorable Moments and Notable Exchanges

• Zerg’s Entrapment Style ([09:01])

  • The hosts play a clip of Zerg dramatically recapping his sting, heavily mocking both the style (“a lot of flair, that guy”) and the content.

• Mocking the Disavowal Video ([16:43])

  • Hilarious breakdown and speculation on the makeshift aesthetics of the “Americans Against Islamification” video:
    • “Is that actually on the flag? Did they deface…?” (A, 17:54)
  • The group laughs over the wood paneling, podium, and the mysterious absence of the speaker’s legs.

• Metacommentary on Right-wing Infighting ([24:23], [25:00])

  • The hosts roast the artificiality of “friendship drama” between major right pundits as pure performance for clicks.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:51–03:06: Jake Lang’s hate group antics, goat incident at rally.
• 05:27–07:19: Breakdown of the “predator hunter” sting text exchange.
• 11:17–13:21: Lang’s failed defense and bizarre “bikinis and burkas” excuse.
• 14:59–16:35: Americans Against Islamification disavows Lang; hosts mock the disavowal video’s quality.
• 19:13–27:41: Megyn Kelly vs. Ben Shapiro feud; media dynamics and ideological splits.
• 28:08–29:49: Trump and the cabinet shoe uniform, plus eugenics rhetoric.
• 31:01: The episode’s through line—bigotry as an animating force across MAGA scandals.

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Tone and Language

The episode is fast-paced, irreverent, and darkly comic—delivering sharp political commentary mixed with peer-group ribbing:

• “Poor negotiator, didn’t even try.” (A, 07:06)
• “It makes you wonder whether she has any actual friends, actually.” (A, 24:57)
• “She decided she wanted to, like, be a shit. An online shit.” (A, 27:16)
• “There’s a through line to this trio episode. We start with Jake Lang … and then we end with Donald Trump talking about eugenics. Great times.” (B, 31:01)

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Summary

For those who haven’t listened:
This episode dissects a stomach-turning scandal of MAGA-world backstabbing and moral bankruptcy. Jake Lang, already infamous for racism and bigotry, is exposed in a pedophile sting and quickly ditched by even his own comically inept affiliates. The hosts use his case to lampoon the bizarre self-regulation and cannibalism of far-right grifters and their would-be vigilantes. The show then pivots to the performative feuds of right-wing media stars, highlighting how today’s “mainstream” conservative voices are increasingly aligning with their most toxic, conspiratorial brethren. All this is capped by Trump’s cartoonish Cabinet shoe rules and offhand eugenics talk, painting a bleak but darkly funny portrait of MAGA’s continuing freefall.

Transcript

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Hey, everybody, it's me, Sam Stein, managing under the bulwark. I'm joined by the Fingerling Trio. The rest of them, we go. Tim Miller. Well, summer, it's Friday afternoon when we're taping this. I'm not drunk yet.

[A]

Me neither. I'm having a Coca Cola.

[B]

Me too. This is not right. We're here to talk about Will's latest, the most depraved one yet. Felt like I needed a shower after.

[A]

I was hoping for more laughs. I do have to tell you, you, when I use. I got a note from Sam yesterday, and he's like, we gotta do a trio video tomorrow on Will's newsletter. And so I was opening it this morning. I was like, ready for. For a chuckle. And I started to read it and I was like, woof.

[B]

It's not funny.

[A]

Dark.

[C]

It's a. It's a dark chuckle. It's a dark chuckle.

[B]

It's a dark chuckle. All right, well, what is it? Why don't you tell the reader, the viewers, what's going on here?

[C]

Sure. So this is a story about Jake Lang, a rising up and coming hate monger in America. He makes a lot of the guys we talk about look like, you know, real wokies. This is a guy who was a J6 rioter. He was wielding a baseball bat. He emerges from that. He kind of travels the country, you know, whipping up hate against Jews, Muslims. And he was really in the news last weekend because he was doing a rally outside of Zoran Mamdami's, the mayoral mansion. And then some, you know, people allegedly threw a bomb at him who were inspired by isis. Fortunately, it didn't happen.

[A]

That happened. I don't think we need to. Allegedly, that. Yeah, that happened, right?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

We need to allege the inspiration by isis. A bomb was thrown. Yes.

[C]

Yeah. So the bomb was thrown. And this obviously really sort of elevated his profile on the right. But in record time, his image has been, you know, I was going to say tarnished. It's obviously very tarnished already, but he's kind of had his downfall now.

[B]

Did he bring a pig to the rally? Because he was trying to like make

[C]

fun of Muslims and he brought a goat. He brought a goat. There was a previous incident involving a pig. This time he brought a live goat. And you know, it kind of. To be frank, I don't think it worked very well. He was trying to kind of make a point about, you know, some vile thing about sex with goats.

[A]

So it's a goat fucking joke.

[C]

Exactly. But at one point the van opened up and he was kind of hunched over the goat so it sort of looked like, you know, like he was. He was sort of like, oh, now

[B]

I just got to say, before we start, Jake Lang is a raging anti sex Semite who also happens to be Jewish. His mom's Jewish. So I find that all very odd and selfish.

[A]

It's a mommy issue story here.

[B]

There's many issues. Many issues. There would be a lot of. A lot for Freud to chew on over here. So Jake Lang, as, as Will notes, gets caught in a classic To Catch a Predator squeeze here. If you people don't know To Catch a Predator.

[A]

I don't know. I don't think it's Scott Hansen.

[B]

Yeah, it be those things where I got to tell you.

[A]

Did you watch the documentary? No. So there's a new documentary about Scott Hansen and To Catch a Predator and I. Chris Hansen. Shit. Chris. Whatever. I was going to say, we can fix it in post, but just make me look like an idiot. Thank you. Well, Chris Hansen, we'll keep it. Chris Hansen. There's a documentary and you're about to learn why I didn't get the name right. Because it was the weekend husband's. Like, this is some good nostalgia. Like, you know, it's something from our childhood. To Catch a Predator. Let's turn on the documentary. I made it three minutes. I had forgotten how just horrible and depraved and grotesque it was. It was these men and the Whole thing. And the whole thing.

[B]

The idea that they would broadcast that as a TV show is pretty, in retrospect, awful. You were just being like, hey, look at this sex predator pedophilia who we just.

[A]

And then he would do the thing where he is like. He'd be like, you have a chance to leave right now if you want. And the guy's like, yeah, I'm out of here. And then he'd go outside and be like, tackle them, tackle them. And then they're like interviewing the girls that had grown up, that had been millennial. I was like, every part of it. I was just like, no. I was like, give me Love Story. You know, something with a happy ending. Oh, wait, whatever.

[B]

No, not a happy ending on Love Story. I don't want to break the news about how Love Story ends to anyone who hasn't seen it yet, but he crashes anyway. So back to Jake Lang. He's texting with someone who he. I guess we don't know how the texts start from this, but can you explain who he's actually texting with? With?

[C]

Yeah, so he thinks basically, Jake Lang got busted by to catch the sort of the son of To Catch a Predator. There's this whole universe now of Instagram, you know, or social media. Pedophile hunters.

[B]

Not literally Chris Hansen's son.

[A]

It's.

[C]

No, you're right. Ideologically. Okay.

[A]

And they don't literally hunt the pedophiles, like with guns. Like, it's.

[C]

Well, sometimes they confront him in person and sometimes they do beat him up or whatever. But anyways, this guy's named the Zerg and he's like, you know, a young man with like a kind of a wispy mustache and a hoodie. And so he's posing as a 15 year old and saying, oh, Jake Lang, I love you so much. And then he, you know, I will say, Jake Lang does not, you know, send nudes or really like arrange meet up with this young woman. But. Or this teenager, what he believes to be.

[B]

But.

[C]

But he's very flirtatious, I guess, in a way that is you would not want to be with a 15 year old when Jake Lang is 30, right?

[B]

And he's texting this person who he thinks is. Well, at first he's like, what's your age? And he says something that is so peculiar and specific. And he says, how old are you, baby? Unless you are under 18, I don't care. Haha. And then this person who's pretending to be this underage girl says, I'm 15. LOL. And adds a picture of her clothed. Now, Jake Lang has just said 18 is his minimum. Okay. He's like, unless you're under 18, I'm fine. If you're over 18, I'm cool. And then he, and then he responds, when do you turn 16? So within like a couple seconds, he's setting a new floor, downgraded his age to 16.

[A]

Poor negotiator even try.

[B]

It was just like, yeah, actually, you know what that 18 thing, let's go to 16. And then this person responds. Lazer responds in six months. And it doesn't end there. And it keeps going.

[A]

Can I ask? Well, so how did this get out? Like, this was like the Zurg published

[C]

it or the Zerg posted this on Instagram. Sort of as it seems like I've seen him go after other influencers before. Not kind of right wing ones, but sort of like it seems like maybe he just kind of carpet bombs people with these and does like some sort of entrapment. So in, in his case that he posted it, I think on Monday and then it started circulating from there.

[B]

Well, we can play the video because the Zerg post that we have the video of him talking about it. He takes almost particular delight in the fact that he's entrapped Jake here. So let's.

[A]

I want to play the video, but I just, I just want a little bit more on the personalities because I feel like I'm Sam in this case. Usually in the trio videos, like, Will really knows everybody's backstory where they went to high school. I know the gist. And Sam knows nothing. I know I've never heard of the Zerg. I really have barely followed Jake Lang just because he's like so cartoonishly racist and awful, you know, that it's like, it's just like, why care about this person? They're just so sick. But so why if Desert himself is a right wing pedophile hunter, why did that person target Jake Lang? Can you explain that before we watch the video?

[C]

Yes, and we'll get into this. But basically Jake Lang alleges that I should say Nick Fuentes and the Gripers hate Jake Lang because they see him as an optical.

[A]

He's putting a bad face on their ideology.

[C]

Exactly. Or they say he's a federal plant.

[B]

He's also part Jewish. He's part Jew.

[A]

That too.

[C]

And so the Zerg, more high class white supremacy. He said, well, I like Nick Fuentes. This was not a groiper operation. But, but, but I think perhaps, you know, there are people on the far right, who see Jake Lange as sort of a comical figure to. To mess around with.

[B]

Okay, let's play the Zerg. Breaking this case wide open.

[A]

So they were talking about the march and how he wanted her to be at the march in Texas. And he said that I have too many DMs.

[C]

Text me, baby.

[A]

So she sent her number and let's see what he said on text. She says, how old are you, by the way? He said, I just turned 30, honey. What are you doing up so late, young lady? Then tells Jake, I might be too young for you. And he says, how old are you, baby? Unless you are under 18, I don't care. Then she says, I'm 15. Lolo. Now, keep in mind at this point what you should do is you should block the girl or just not talk to her. But let's see what Jake says next. He asks her, when do you turn 16? And she says, in six months. And then says, I won't get you in trouble if that's what you are worried about. And Wordy, she likes that message. And then ask, what state do you live in? Question mark.

[C]

I can't see you till you're 16. He. He really relished that.

[A]

The aesthetic. I get it. You know, I don't. I'm not, I'm not the target market for a right wing griper, pedophile hunter content. But, you know, he.

[B]

If you're not the right target for that, then there's not much of an audience.

[A]

Yeah, he's got. I don't know, he's got a lot of flair, that guy.

[C]

What do you say, baby? Baby?

[B]

Yeah, I loved how he said lol. The second one, I think has to do with Lang kind of defending himself. So let's, let's not go to the second one yet. Let's talk about what happens when Lang is confronted with this, because he makes a very audacious move. He goes and he tries to explain. Tries to explain himself to another Catch a Predator guy. Like, why did he choose the. Of all the people to choose to explain to someone else in the game of Catching a Predator, predator would not be my top choice. It's like that guy also is invested in catching you, but he decided to do that so. Well, explain this also. Why are there multiple to Catch a Predator people on the right?

[C]

Oh, it's a universe out there, Sam. I mean, I think there's hundreds of them. Now. This guy's named Alex Rosen.

[A]

He is also Jewish, I think. Well, again, I just. If you're thinking about people to go to for help. If you're the anti Semite who has had issues being caught flirting with a 15 year old, I don't know if you should go to a Jewish predator hunter.

[B]

It's the worst choice possible. All the people, oh, the guy who's gonna hate me because I'm an anti Semite also is invested in catching predators like me. That's the guy I'm gonna go to. It makes no sense.

[A]

All right, go on. Sorry, go ahead.

[C]

So his name is I Fight for kids Online.

[A]

And he.

[C]

But he's like a really notorious figure. He's always mixing it up with people. Like, I was aware of him. I wasn't aware of the Zerg before this. And so basically, Jake Lang hits him up and he says, like, bro, it wasn't like that. I was just recruiting girls for a bikinis and burkas protest. I was gonna do where. Where, you know, young women were gonna wear bikinis and burkas. And once I found out she was 15, I said, like, don't do it.

[B]

Speechless. Is there any evidence that there was a bikinis and burka protest in the works?

[C]

Not that's been released. No. I mean, and you know, Alex Rosen, this whole time is going, oh, yeah, bro, tell me more, man. Tell me more. You know, he's both throwing it all up online.

[B]

So Rosen does what of course he was going to do, which he gives it all this recording to the Zerg, and then the Zerg decides to put up a second part of the series, which he titled Jake Lang Files, Part two Siren emoji. And he blows up Jake Lang all over again.

[A]

I've got whole entire teams of people messaging people. And we were gonna do a big burka bikini march I had announced for February.

[B]

Like, you know, you shouldn't even be

[A]

anywhere near this thing until you're like, of the legal age to even be around adults. So anyway. Right, Right. I mean, what was it? You know, and that's where. And that's where it ended. Like, as soon as I said that,

[B]

when I said, I can't see you.

[A]

And that's it, that was the last message.

[B]

You know, that's right. Have you.

[C]

Have you, like, shared your password with anybody or given that out to people before?

[A]

I don't think so. Why? So your team, DMs girls, and asks for their number and then says, I have too many dms. Text only, sweetie. So that's like a normal way for your team to DM girls, huh? Or is it normal for your team to Text them saying, did you see me get freaking lynched, babe, good to hear from you. And I'm sure this is normal for

[C]

your team to say too, right?

[B]

Okay, I think Zerg's got him.

[A]

Should the trio be doing our pedophile hunting content in tank tops like that? Which is interesting. The sartorial choice was notable for me.

[B]

Of all the things to focus on, I feel. I feel like Lang really gave himself out here.

[A]

This isn't CSI Miami type episode that we're dealing with here. I don't, you know, I'm running out of kind of commentary. It's a pretty open and shut case.

[B]

Well, okay, so leads me to the question of, like, what's the reaction been? Because we ended this. So we ended the story where it's like, okay, yeah, you got him. He's pretty much cooked on this one now. Since then, he did go on Laura Loomer's podcast, as you noted, where they talked both about being white and Jewish, which always comes back to the freaking Jews. But has any. Has there been any other fallout since then?

[C]

Well, Jake Lang's organization, Americans Against Islamification, has disavowed him. You know, this came out right as our newsletter was coming out. You know, he's been banished, so now he can't even hang out with the crusaders anymore.

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[C]

There's not a lot that I know about them, to be frank. I mean, they are sort of a shadowy group. I think they're kind of a Jake Lang front group that is like a handful.

[A]

So his own front group is disavowed.

[B]

You got to watch this video. They cut a video, you can see

[C]

from the production values that this is, you know, not the most credible organization.

[B]

This is Wayne. This is Wayne's world basement filming type stuff here. Let's play. Let's play this stupid video where they disavow Jake Lang.

[A]

My co founder, Jake Lang. No. Was caught in a. No. A period trap set by a sex decoy company or sexy coin account to catch predators. I cannot confirm the authenticity or the intentions behind Jake's messages. I can however, confirm the authenticity. And until further notice, Jake Lang, American Crusader, has been suspended from all of our organizations until a pending an internal investigation opened up by my team.

[B]

Now, Tim, you're the, you're the comms pro here.

[A]

What is that like? What. What was that filmed on?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Because it almost looks like it's like a zoom backdrop or something. Right? Because if you look at the podium, unless his body just like tapers, like, shouldn't his legs be visible?

[A]

Is that a real. What? This is like a North Korea. What is this? And as the Americans. Again, the font on that, is that. Is that actually on the flag? Did they deface?

[B]

I'm more interested in the paneling. What's that wood paneling that he's in front of?

[A]

Could this be in America? Wow.

[B]

This is the stuff that will deals with on a regular basis. I don't know if. I don't know. I don't know what to make of this. I'm a little bit surprised that it took this turn. I don't know if there's anything else to add. This is truly like bottom of the barrel.

[A]

I mean, I guess I'll say this. I'm shocked by the integrity of the Americans against Islamification. I don't support their mission at all. We're a pluralistic society. I respect every one of every FAI in this country. It's the fundamental American value. So they're, they're very wrong in their mission. But, you know, they're showing more integrity than the Republican senators did when Donald Trump admitted to grabbing women by the pussy. So something to be said for that.

[C]

Well, Tim, I wouldn't be so fast to say that because later in the video they say they still love Jake and he's only temporarily suspended. So, you know, and they hope to welcome him back.

[A]

That sounds right.

[B]

I'm eager to see their next broadcast. Let's, let's switch gears a little bit here to something only slightly more elevated. There is a feud that is just absolutely raging and I've been dying to

[A]

get to this one.

[B]

Okay. Megan, Kelly, Ben, Shapiro. They have been just absolutely at each other's throats. I'm not totally up to speed on what new happened. I'm assuming it has to do with Iran or, or Erica Kirk or Candace Owens. But Tim, you seem to be eager to talk about this one, so.

[A]

I'm extremely eager to talk about that. Sure. Because yeah, like these are two of like the top four or five voices, podcaster voices in on the right right now. You know, there's something a little bit unsatisfying to me about the Meg about the Ben versus Candace feud. I mean, Candace is so noxious and stupid and you know, she and, and their id, their fight was basically just about the fact that she hates Jews and he really loves Israel. And so, you know, there's some limits to how much you can dissect the feud. The Megan Ben feud is interesting because Megan comes from primetime Fox. Then she goes to NBC where she goes woke for like a year or two and like dances around with Hoda. Like her and Hoda, she was talking

[B]

to kids who are transitioning and all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, it's like me and Hoda having mimosas, loving trans kids. Okay, so she goes that way and then she goes into pro Trump podcasting. Great success. Kudos to her for success. And. And it's like in this moment where you could see her like choosing to just like either she could be a Trump propagandist, she could just be kind of like, I don't know, like a E. Entertainment for right wing politics kind of neutral figure. And there's a lot of different ways that she could go. And she's chosen to throw her entire reputation in with Tucker and Candace and like the more conspiratorial wing of Maga. And I think that's very telling. It's telling about where things are going. Her fight with Ben is a lot about like, she tries to, like little Ben's losing in the rankings. Like, she's doing Trumpy stuff about his, about his YouTube stats. So like trying to do dick measuring context about her YouTube stats. And Ben, like, who went through a period of time of kind of like playing footsie with the Candaces of the world and kind of like obliquely criticizing these people. Now Ben is just like, no fucks to give me. Kelly is a conspiracist and a racist and she, and she's just a click whore. And, and I'm just, I'm titillated. I'm enjoying the show.

[B]

So in this case, in this case, the fight started because Ben called Piers Morgan, the Jerry Springer of politics, which I don't know what that makes you, Tim, because you're on Piers show every now and then.

[A]

And by the way, had somebody come up to me at a crawfish boil last weekend, said that they're like, you're. You're the guy that's on Piers sometimes, right? And I said, yeah. And they're like, I watch it when I'm working out. It's kind of like Jerry Springer for politics. Just a regular guy. He's like, I just watch it for the entertainment, like. And so I think, I don't even think Piers would take that as an insult. Maybe you would be. Shouldn't, because that's just. Is what it is.

[B]

Megyn Kelly took it as an insult on Piers's behalf, I guess because it went. I don't know. Well, let's. Let's play the Shapiro Jerry Springer clip so we can get a sense of how this all started.

[A]

I think that Tucker Carlson has fostered anti Semitism by having on some of the worst anti Semites in America over and over and over and then essentially laundering their views. I have never remotely called Megyn Kelly an anti Semite, nor, by the way, did I call Piers Morgan an anti Semite. I said that his show is the Jerry Springer of politics, a clown car of stupidity. And it is. That's all.

[B]

Well, Megyn Kelly came to Pierce defense. She said the following.

[A]

So obviously, in Ben's view, Tucker had to go.

[B]

Clearly, even though he helped build Candace, she had to go. Then I had to go. Even though I've had a 15 year friendship with a guy publicly attacked me.

[A]

Same thing. Not even a text in advance.

[B]

Even though we had had a text like literally four months or four weeks earlier saying no matter what, who we're

[A]

friends with because he was mad I

[B]

was friends with Tucker. Our friendship means more to us than anything and we won't do anything to eff it up. Next thing I know, I get attacked by him on stage at Turning Point. Now Piers Morgan, like, how many people have to go, truly, how many people must be culled from the conservative movement in order to make Ben happy?

[A]

Kind of a, you can dish it, but you can't take it there a little bit. For Megan, one of the other reasons I want to bring this up. And Sam, you can kind of. I'm sure you have perspective on this. I love the appeals to the friendship on this because, like, it's such a D.C. and media thing. Like the idea that Megyn Kelly and Ben Shapiro are Actually, friends is complete nonsense. They're obviously not friends. It's totally fake. Like, they're friends to the extent that, like, they're on the same political side and they go to the same party sometimes. Like, they're at the same political functions. Like, do you think that Megyn Kelly has ever been to Ben's house? Can she name all of his children's names? I would really struggle to believe that she can. And so it's just like, this whole, like, oh, I thought we were friends. And then you called me Jerry Springer, you know, and, like, the whole thing is. It's really sad.

[B]

Yeah, they're friends in the same way that, like, Will and I are friends, which is we're not. And Will, for instance, you know, we pretend to get along, but right before we broadcast, we will started throwing shade at me for tweeting his story out. He's like, oh, you stole my Twitter clout. You tweeted my story. I got all my likes, and I called him the Jerry Springer of Twitter. And now we're fucking fighting. Now, what's crazy about this is Megyn Kelly's 55 years old. Seriously, there's got to be things that you care about more than these stupid feuds. Like, just. You don't need this.

[A]

It makes you wonder whether she has any actual friends, actually.

[C]

I mean, I think she. It's almost to her. In Her. In her interest to suggest that this is a feud or make this look like Ben Shapiro is just out on the loose and bullying everyone, because I think it kind of covers up what Tim pointed to, which is that she. And I find this situation really interesting as well, but, like, where she is really triangulating herself and making nice with people like Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson and Candace. Candace, Nick in particular, being especially inflammatory in order to kind of, like, you know, avoid getting hit here. And, you know, the. The Ben Shapiro people are calling her, like, Grandma Groiper, things like that, which I only bring up because, you know, it's kind of catchy.

[A]

I like that.

[C]

I think there is, like, a real ideological thing at stake here. And Ben Shapiro is saying, you know, like, here are the two lines like anti Semitism and, you know, terrorizing Charlie Kirk's widow, which I think are fair things for him to be, like, kind of freaking out at people about, you know, and for her to sort of be saying, like, you know, I don't know. I mean, you can tell that she's trying to make this about, like, cancel culture instead of that.

[B]

Again, though, she's 55. She's 10 years from Social Security. Like, there are things in life that at some point you just don't need to care about. And, like, these little online tiffs is ridiculous. I hope to God that when I'm that age, I'm not so invested in this.

[A]

It's important to understand the psychology. Sorry, to do armchair psychology. Mega. Kelly has no friends. She has her house. She sits there. It's fancy house. She has her husband, she has her children, and she streams, and she gets into imaginary online feuds, and she pretends like she's friends with people to the extent that they're useful. And she's at Fox, she pretended like they were all her friends, and she had. Then she had a movie made about her, about how she burned everybody at Fox. And, like, really, like, this is. This is a. This is. This is psychopathic behavior is what it is. Like, it's from somebody that, like, got an unimaginable payout to not work at NBC because she was so unpopular there. And it's like, rather than just doing what you're. What you're asking for is for the response. For a healthy person, that would be like, you know What? Hey, I'm 50 now. I just got this huge payout. My kids are in high school. I'm going to go on some boards. I'm going to find some things that are meaningful to me. I might start a volunteer organization if I really love working. Maybe I'll find, like, that's not what she's doing. She decided she wanted to, like, be a shit. An online shit.

[B]

Can't quit the game. She can't quit the game.

[A]

That's it. So that's what's happening here. But it is. I just think it's super telling who she's going siding with. Candace was always going to Candace. Ben was always going to get Ben. Right. And I think that you can tell a little bit. We don't know. Nobody can see the future. So Megan's. Her crystal ball may be wrong, but it's telling that she thinks that the wind and the arrow is pointing towards Tucker, Nick Fuentes, and Candace, not towards Ben.

[B]

All right, last topic to close this bad boy out. This one's near and dear to my heart. This whole story about Trump making all his members of the Cabinet buy the same shoes or that he's buying them from or something like that. Tim and I talked about this yesterday, and how absurd it is that Marco Rubio has to prance around shoes that are two sizes too big for him because he needs to impress Dear Leader. Trump was asked about this on Brian Kill Me Today. And he addressed it and he sort of danced around it. And he had this to say.

[A]

Is it true that you're, you're telling your whole cabinet to wear the same shoes? These Flora shine shoes? No, but it's a nice shoe. But what I do is as somebody that for many, many years has walked around in shoes that were no good and, you know, would not be that comfortable, so I have fun with it. When they tell me they have a problem, I say, let me get you a pair of shoes. And seems to work out pretty well now. They look all spiffy and nice. I never like cabinet members walking in on sneakers. Right. You know, sneakers are wonderful, but I don't want my cabinet members wearing sneakers. So I'll get them a pair of shoes. It's a gift from Donald Trump. That's cool. You could write it off too, at the end of the year with this new, with your new tax reform.

[B]

There it is, outfitting his entire cabinet, making them look spiffy.

[A]

Nice.

[C]

I like the implication that Scott Besant was like wearing sneakers to the White House. All these slobs walking around. Who was wearing sneakers?

[B]

I am kind of curious who was wearing sneakers.

[A]

The only thing surprised me that could was that Brian Kilby didn't show him his Florsheim shoes right there because. And Brian Kilby looked like he wanted to shine Trump's shoes during that question. I do want to just weigh in on that other Kill Me clip. I don't know if you guys have heard that, but Trump dabbles a little bit in like he takes out his calipers and starts doing a little eugenics talk on the subject of the immigrants coming to the country and terrorism and things of that nature. Let's listen. A lot of them were let in here. They shouldn't have been let in. Others are just bad. They go bad. Something wrong. There's something wrong there. So the genetics are not exactly. Well, they're not exactly your genetic. It's one of those problems, Brian. It's a, it's a terrible thing. And it happens and it happens and it happens too often. Well, there you go. Their genetics are not your genetics. Sam, that's an intriguing old man comment

[B]

very much expected from Donald Trump. I mean, look, we have Tommy Tuberville talking about how, you know, the enemies were in the gate and he's posting pictures of mom, Danny. And you have Randy Fine and who that other Andy Ogles or whatever his name is down In Tennessee. So it's like this is now mainstream, Right. It's basically like we need to be a white Christian country. And they're outwardly saying it. So. Not surprised it's that Trump said it, are you?

[A]

No, I'm not surprised. It's just, I think it's interesting. To me, it's more telling about like he's getting old. This is if you read, if you had confidence, man. Maggie, have Everman's book about Trump. One of the interesting things is you go way back. Was in between one of his marriages, he was dating a mixed race woman.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When that was, you know, I forget if her dad was black, her mom was black, and the other one's white. And Trump like literally did eugenics talk with this woman about how like, oh, like this side of your family is your athleticism and the other side is your brains or whatever I don't have in front of me. But it was like something to that effect. Like he thinks this way. And so I think that it's just, it's only interesting to the extent that like, you know, when you become 80, you start to let, let, let some of your truth feelings out. I think maybe that was happening on the Kill Me show this morning. That's all.

[B]

There's a through line to this trio episode. We start with Jake Lane talking about, you know, anti Muslims, anti Jews, and then we end with Donald Trump talking about eugenics. Great times.

[A]

What a topic. What a fun show. Can we pull up that one guy at the, at the anti Islamic. Can we look at his picture again? Can we get a laugh? I want to look at his legs one more time.

[B]

They don't exist.

[A]

I want to see what's happening with his legs one more time. How does it, how is that possible that he doesn't have legs?

[B]

They must be hidden behind the lectern, right?

[A]

I don't know, but he'd have to be like

[B]

standing with his legs really close together.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

We gotta get him on the pod, Tim.

[A]

All right, we'll talk, we'll effort that. Good to see you guys.

[B]

Hey everyone, thanks for watching the latest trio. Subscribe to the Bulwark, subscribe to our takes. Have a great weekend, fellas. Talk to you soon.

[A]

Bye. You're my friend, Will.

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