Is This Trump Official The Most Ridiculous One Yet? (w/ Arthur Delaney)

Summary

Bulwark Takes: "Is This Trump Official The Most Ridiculous One Yet? (w/ Arthur Delaney)" Summary

Release Date: March 19, 2025
Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Arthur Delaney, Huffington Post

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Sam Stein engages in a compelling discussion with Arthur Delaney of the Huffington Post (formerly HuffPost) about recent significant changes within the Social Security Administration (SSA). The conversation delves into the administrative overhauls, their implications for the public, and the political undercurrents influencing these modifications.

2. Substantive Changes to the Social Security Administration

Sam Stein opens the discussion by highlighting substantial alterations within the SSA, specifically the shift away from traditional privatization. Instead of channeling benefits into the private market, the administration is modifying the program's operational aspects, potentially partnering with private companies for certain functions.

Key Change Discussed:

• Discontinuation of Phone-Based Transactions: As of Tuesday, beneficiaries can no longer apply for benefits or make changes to their bank accounts via phone. All such transactions now require in-person visits to SSA offices.

Arthur Delaney explains:

"It's part of the broader DOGE effort to flatten every federal agency. At Social Security, they're restricting the ability of people to make changes to their accounts or apply for retirement benefits over the phone already. They want you to use the Social Security website where you can log in and create an ID."
[00:00 - 02:28]

Impact:

• Accessibility Issues: Older individuals, who may be less tech-savvy, find it increasingly difficult to navigate these changes.
• Reduced SSA Personnel: With cuts to SSA staff, fewer personnel are available to handle in-person requests, exacerbating the problem.

3. Political Implications and Criticism

The changes are perceived by many, including Delaney, as politically motivated rather than driven by efficiency or fraud prevention.

Delaney Critiques:

"They are making a change that would appear totally contrary to the idea of convenient public service in order to fight this supposed fraud."
[02:59 - 03:17]

Fraud Prevention Rationale:

• The administration claims that these measures aim to curb common frauds, such as unauthorized changes to direct deposit information by relatives or unknown individuals.

Sam Stein’s Concerns:

"Old people being forced to... get up, go into a location, go through more hurdles in order to get their benefits that they've earned would be a political loser."
[03:20 - 04:26]

4. The Leland Dudik Controversy

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Leland Dudik, the acting commissioner of the SSA, whose actions have raised eyebrows and led to allegations of political retaliation.

Background:

• Conflict with Governor Janet Mills: Following a public dispute between Maine Governor Janet Mills and former President Donald Trump over transgender athletes in sports, Dudik implemented policy changes affecting Maine's SSA operations.

Specific Changes in Maine:

• Cancellation of Enumeration at Birth Contracts: Required new mothers to visit SSA offices in person to obtain Social Security numbers for their newborns, instead of the streamlined process at hospitals.
• Discontinuation of Electronic Death Registry: Funeral homes could no longer electronically report deaths, complicating benefit claims for deceased beneficiaries.

Key Interactions and Statements:

• Dudik's Admission of Mistake:

  "I screwed up. I played the wrong move there. I'm new at this job. It looked fishy."
  [12:36 - 13:13]

• Dudik on Making Mistakes:

  "Personally, I have made some mistakes which makes me human like you. I promise you this, I will continue to make mistakes, but I will learn from them."
  [11:10 - 12:36]

• Dudik’s Alleged Political Retaliation:

  "I work for the President. I need to do what the president tells me to do. I've had to make some tough decisions, some tough choices. Choices I didn't agree with, but the president wanted it and I did it."
  [14:50 - 15:26]

Analysis by Delaney: Delaney suggests that Dudik's actions may be influenced by personal grievances against Governor Mills, potentially weaponizing SSA operations as political leverage.

"It’s strong... what you did was political retaliation."
[09:38 - 10:07]

5. Reactions and Consequences

Political Pushback:

• Tom Cole, Republican from Oklahoma: Successfully intervened to prevent the closure of SSA field offices in his state.
• General Lack of Nationwide Pushback: While there have been isolated instances of resistance, broad opposition remains limited.

Potential Impacts:

• Reduction of SSA Workforce: Plans to cut personnel from 57,000 to 50,000 employees could severely disrupt SSA operations.
• Constitutional Challenges: Some changes, like cutting federal funding to Maine, may face legal hurdles as such actions are generally impermissible.

Public Statements and Accountability:

• Dudik has publicly apologized for certain policy reversals but maintains that initial decisions were not politically motivated, despite evidence suggesting otherwise.

6. Notable Quotes and Moments

Throughout the episode, several quotes from Leland Dudik and Arthur Delaney highlight the contentious nature of the changes:

• Dudik on Transparency:

  "I screwed up. I played the wrong move there..."
  [12:36 - 13:13]

• Dudik's Commitment to Transparency:

  "But he has been incredibly transparent about his own, like, thoughts, motivations."
  [17:00 - 17:11]

• Delaney on Doge's Influence:

  "We've witnessed something I don't think any of us expected. The weaponization of Social Security."
  [09:38 - 10:07]

7. Conclusion

The episode sheds light on troubling changes within the Social Security Administration that may be rooted in political motivations rather than genuine efforts to combat fraud or improve efficiency. The discussion between Sam Stein and Arthur Delaney underscores the potential adverse effects on vulnerable populations and raises critical questions about the politicization of essential public services.

Final Thoughts:

• Systemic Risks: The reduction in SSA personnel coupled with increased bureaucratic hurdles could jeopardize the timely and efficient distribution of benefits.
• Accountability: The interactions between Dudik and political figures like Governor Mills highlight the need for greater transparency and accountability within federal agencies to prevent misuse of administrative power.

Arthur Delaney remains a crucial voice in dissecting these developments, advocating for the protection of the social safety net against potentially destabilizing political interference.

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For listeners interested in the intricate dynamics between politics and public administration, this episode offers a thorough examination of recent SSA changes and their broader implications.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, welcome back. I'm Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. I'm joined by one of our premier guests. Truly not a diamond in the rough, just a diamond. Arthur Delaney of Huffington Post. Sorry, HuffPost, I forgot. Big changes over there. We're gonna be talking about Social Security, a serious topic. We're gonna have a little fun at the end, but we're gonna do the serious stuff at the beginning because there's some actual substantive changes happening to the program that are not getting enough attention. And then the administration of it is being done in a very weird kind of political matter that I think is worth touching on. Before we get to that. You know what to do. Subscribe to the feed. We're crushing it, but we want to crush it more. So give us your subscription, please. All right, Artie, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. I want to start with the substantive stuff. Obviously, there's been a lot of changes at the Social Security Administration basically around how the program is going to be administered. They're not privatizing the program as you would traditionally understand it. I mean, as you and I traditionally understand it, that means, you know, putting the benefits into the private market. Right. But what they are doing is they're taking part of the administration of the program and changing it in a way that might give it over to private companies and so on and so forth. The big story from this week was, was that you would now, if you are trying to apply for benefits, can no longer do them by phone, maybe not apply for benefits, but get changes to your bank account or things like that. You can no longer do it by phone. You have to do it in person. Can you just describe sort of the, the reasons for this change and just how disruptive it might be?

[Arthur Delaney]

Right. It's part of the broader DOGE effort to free flatten, like every federal agency. And what they're doing at Social Security is restricting the ability of people to make changes to their accounts or apply for, say, retirement benefits over the phone already. They want you to use the Social Security website where you can log in and create an id. And of course, you know, a lot of older people, they don't do that, so they phone. And so basically, a big change that they announced Tuesday would be that for transactions where you have to verify your identity, they're going to insist that you come in and do this in person. And, and that's, I don't get it.

[Sam Stein]

I, I, I gotta be honest, I don't get it. They're cutting the number of people who work at the ssa, so already there's less personnel to talk to for this stuff. I assume that they were going to try to automate a lot of these things and digitize them, but this is the opposite.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yeah, I mean there is some of that automation and AI stuff going on, but I can make this make sense for you. You've heard Donald Trump talk about how millions of people who supposedly are 200 years old are receiving benefits.

[Sam Stein]

If you're dead, you're not coming in.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yeah. Elon Musk is like, this agency is full of fraud. So they are making a change that would appear totally contrary to, to the idea of convenient public service in order to fight this supposed fraud that.

[Sam Stein]

Are they explicit about that as the reason for this?

[Arthur Delaney]

They don't want, they are not showing up that it's the 200 year olds like Crypt Keeper accounts. They are saying just fraud in general because they say one of the more common Social Security frauds is a relative or somebody you don't even know will say, I need to switch the bank account where I'm getting my direct deposit and then they'll steal your benefits. And so supposedly to cut down on.

[Sam Stein]

That, that's the fraud they're cutting down on. Gosh.

[Arthur Delaney]

But the point is, it's fraud in general.

[Sam Stein]

Freaking out about this. Like, I'm not, I'm not a genius about these types of things, but it strikes me that like old people being forced to, like in disabled and firm old people being forced to get up, go into a location, go through more hurdles in order to get their benefits that they've earned would be a political loser and that people who are in Congress would be like, you know what, maybe we shouldn't do this. Maybe this is a bad idea. These people are important in their constituency, but I've heard very little in the way of pushback on this.

[Arthur Delaney]

There has been pushback, but it's piecemeal. You know, at the same time they're doing this, like you mentioned, they're shutting a bunch of the field offices. There are, there are 1200.

[Sam Stein]

So there's fewer places to go to, but more requirements to go to those fewer places.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yes. But Tom Cole, a Republican from Oklahoma, last week actually put out a statement saying that he had stopped them closing field offices there and place. Right. So there's this small amount of pushback.

[Sam Stein]

When it's, you know, it's like Republicans can get their shit, their cuts reversed because they have Elon's direct line, but Democrats are screwed. Basically.

[Arthur Delaney]

There, there are other instances of Social Security Field offices or building addresses that are put on the Doge contract cancellation website that then are taken off. You know, as. As with everything else Doge, it's not done in really the most transparent manner. And stuff comes and goes. You can't really trust that it's Echo. They do intend to cut, you know, several thousand employees and perhaps dozens of field offices. I'm not sure about.

[Sam Stein]

I mean, it's just as crazy. To me, this is thoughtful thought, as long, long thought as the third rail of politics. And they're just like, let's take a hold of it. You have a piece up about another Social Security Administration episode. This one involves the acting commissioner, a man named Leland Dudic. He. And we'll get to him because he is truly a character, a kind of underappreciated character in the Trump World 2.0. But the backstory here is that there was some fight with the governor of Maine, Janet Mills, who was also in a fight with Donald Trump over transgender athletes. But this one involved policy changes at Social Security. What is the backstory here?

[Arthur Delaney]

So you know about how Janet Mills was in that fight with Donald Trump in February at the White House. All the governors were there, and he's like, we're going to get transgender athletes out of girls sports. And Maine wasn't on board with that. He singled her out. And she said, well, I'll see you in court. And so he then said, well, we're going to cut off federal funding to Maine, which, you know, you can't really do for that reason anyway. That's the background. One day, Maine announced that instead of checking a box when you have a kid, in order to get the Social Security number, you're going to have to go to the field office instead of doing this at the hospital when you're filling out the birth certificate paperwork and just say, yes, I request a number. Because the Social Security Administration had canceled the enumeration at birth contract, you had to make another trip to a.

[Sam Stein]

Which is exactly what a new mother is eager to do. You know, things are pretty easy, easy. Right now I'm gonna go with my kid and back into the hospital because that's fun.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yeah. And you need that number. I mean, you need it to get the kid on your insurance right away. So it's a potentially big deal. They also cancer canceled an electronic death registry thing that, you know, funeral homes would use to report deaths. So this was contrary to the mission of making sure 150 year olds aren't collecting benefits. There was an uproar over this I can't imagine why.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Arthur Delaney]

I think the entire main congressional delegation, very quiet complaint to the agency. There were a couple public statements, and they reversed it. And Leland Dudek, the acting commissioner, said, I'm sorry, that was a terrible mistake and an unnecessary burden appeal of min. Okay. He didn't say why he did it.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. What was the point of doing it in the first place?

[Arthur Delaney]

No idea. Every state has these same contracts. No other state had them canceled. So the obvious.

[Sam Stein]

Hold on. I can put two together. You tell me. Well, you go on. You tell the story, it's yours.

[Arthur Delaney]

Right. So I asked him right away, are you fighting with Janet Mills because she had a spat with Trump? They didn't say. But last night, on Tuesday night, I should say, Dudek had a press call where they were announcing their new rule for, you have to come in. You can't use the phone for these different transactions. And he took questions from reporters. So I asked him, why'd you cancel that contract in Maine? And he said, I screwed up. It was a mistake. I didn't know what it was. I fully take responsibility. I said, yes, but are you sure that you weren't mad at Janet Mills, that the Janet Mills fight with Donald Trump had nothing to do with it? And he said, being a very communicative and transparent person, I was upset with the governor, but it was still a weird contract. I said, you mean you were upset with how Janet Mills treated Donald Trump at the White House? And he said, yes. When people get together, they should be respectful.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Arthur Delaney]

So I said, so what you did was political retaliation? He said, no. He maintained that the contract looked weird, and yet at the same time that it was a total mistake to cancel it. So to me, it's strong.

[Sam Stein]

But just to be clear, he said he was upset with the governor. He acknowledged that he did cancel the contract, but he said the two are not related.

[Arthur Delaney]

Honestly, in my story on this, I said, he suggested that this was a political, a politically motivated thing that he did to Maine. In other words, if he canceled that contract because he was mad at Janet Mills, we just witnessed something I don't think any of us expected. The weaponization of Social Security.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, Now.

[Arthur Delaney]

Now that's. You know, he. He denied that it was a political retaliation.

[Sam Stein]

I know he denies it, but by definition, he was upset. And then he canceled the contract.

[Arthur Delaney]

He. He also alluded to an email he sent in which he spelled this out in some way. And I. I have asked them for that email. I actually had already filed a FOIA request for. For emails from.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, look at you. Super.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yeah, we're professional. So there's, it's not exactly the smoking gun that might be there, you know, we'll find out.

[Sam Stein]

We don't know. Have you talked to the Mills people about it?

[Arthur Delaney]

Janet Mills has not said anything about this to my knowledge and I've reached out to them repeatedly.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Arthur Delaney]

And they've not wanted to go there. I mean they are dealing with the Trump administration on multiple fronts with the Education Department, the usda, hhs. So maybe they just not interested in poking the bear on this.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, lesson learned. Don't fight the Trump administration on transgendered athletes. You might get screwed on Social Security. Let's talk about Dudak because boy like candor. It's interesting. I appreciate it. But he's quickly becoming sort of a repository for fairly head scratching quotes. Again. I appreciate them. I think they're, they're, they're great copy and I, I mean if, if the livelihood and well being of our nation seniors weren't so dependent on it, I'd find them more funny. But I still find them funny, I have to be honest. I'm going to read you a few quotes, you're going to tell me about the context here and then maybe we'll do, we'll figure out which one we think is our favorite. So this is from an email that he sent to SSA staff yesterday that you noted to me was pretty much earnest throughout, but he had some great lines in them. This is a direct quote. Quote. Personally, I have made some mistakes which makes me human like you. I promise you this, I will continue to make mistakes, but I will learn from them. So I like, I mean I like it. Yeah. But I will continue to make mistakes is not something you normally hear from nobody.

[Arthur Delaney]

Administration ideally say, I will try not to make mistakes.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, that's the usual.

[Arthur Delaney]

On the other hand, it's, it's nice to, you know, we're all, we all.

[Sam Stein]

Do make mistakes, but human to air is human. And to continue to air again and again, I guess is also promise to.

[Arthur Delaney]

Air is extremely human.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. All right. During a press call yesterday, he was asked, like you said, about why he canceled these death certificates or contracts and, and birth contracts, uh, with Maine. Uh, and he said, quote, I screwed up. I played the wrong move there. I'm new at this job. It looked fishy.

[Arthur Delaney]

I think a little context about who he is.

[Sam Stein]

Real quick, please.

[Arthur Delaney]

A mid level guy at Social Security for a few years and had worked in other agencies. He reached out to Doge when they came knocking at that agency and were not being answered by the top people. Top people said, stop that, Dudek, you are on leave. No. And then the top people refused to allow Doge into their sensitive data files with all of our information, and they resigned. And so then the Doge people put Dudek in charge. So he has been a vessel for Doge and has actually. I mean, we'll get to it. But that's why he's there, because he's been helpful to them and he's been apparently doing what they want.

[Sam Stein]

The real Horatio Alger story here. Yeah. And he's kind of admits that he's like a little bit in over his head, which is, which is interesting. All right. From an internal meeting with staff this month. Month, according to notes viewed by the Washington Post, he says this Doge people are learning and they will make mistakes. Again, he's obsessed with mistakes, but we have to let them see what is going on at ssa. I am relying on long term career people to inform my work, but I am receiving decisions that are made without my input. I have to effectuate those decisions. Again, a cry for help almost.

[Arthur Delaney]

The make mistakes line is also, he's repeating something Elon Musk says.

[Sam Stein]

Elon says, I don't bet a thousand. Everyone's just screwing up left and right, but it's a virtue.

[Arthur Delaney]

It's. Martin O'Malley, the previous commissioner of Social Security, told me that these mistakes could result in benefits not being paid for the first.

[Sam Stein]

Small, little, small, little side effect. Just part of, part of the process. All right, last one. From a recording of the same meaning attained by ProPublica, quote, I work for the President. I need to do what the president tells me to do. I've had to make some tough decisions, some tough choices. Choices I didn't agree with, but the president wanted it and I did it. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I get it. So do you serve at the, you know.

[Arthur Delaney]

Well, we don't, we don't know what he, what decisions he was referring to.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. What do you think he was referring to?

[Arthur Delaney]

It could be the main thing. We don't know. No reason has ever been given for, for the main contract cancellation.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Arthur Delaney]

And I don't know if he's saying the president told him to do that or he believed that he was supporting the president, if that's what he was referring to, or if it's simply that.

[Sam Stein]

He knows it would fit a sort of Trump characteristic to like, just be like, you know what? She crossed me in public. Let's screw her on this and.

[Arthur Delaney]

Yeah, or maybe he's simply speaking about the reduction in force, which is definitely happening in a big way. They want to go from 57,000 to 50,000. Had been reports they wanted to, to cut their personnel by half, which would.

[Sam Stein]

Be, that would be insane.

[Arthur Delaney]

Really hard to imagine without infuriating people across the country.

[Sam Stein]

Is Judek. He's, he's only acting. So what's the situation getting a permanent commission?

[Arthur Delaney]

There is a, A, a guy nominated named Frank Bizignano who will have a confirmation hearing next Tuesday. I'll be at that over in the Senate Finance Committee.

[Sam Stein]

I, I for one to get Dek, because I, I love him and I think he's good for quotes. Arty, thank you for unpacking this. It's always a pleasure talking to you. You really have your finger on the pulse. Let us know when you get that FOIA back. Probably in what, 20, 27.

[Arthur Delaney]

Dudek said he's committed to transparency and.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, I'm sure they never say, they never say that unless they really mean it, so.

[Arthur Delaney]

But he has been incredibly transparent about his own, like, thoughts, motivations. And I, I was surprised he had a press conference and, and maybe they'll hand it right over.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, let us know if they do. And let us know if you hear from Janet Mills. Very curious to know if she feels like she was screwed over here. Arthur Delaney, The wizard of HuffPost, the chronicler of the social safety net, one of the great friends of this podcast and YouTube page. Thank you so much, man. Really appreciate it.

[Arthur Delaney]

Thanks for having me, Sam.

[Sam Stein]

Take care.