Summary: "January 6 Was a Dress Rehearsal For Trump, Not a Finale"

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: January 6, 2026
Host: Bill Kristol
Guest: Tom Joscelyn (Lead writer, January 6th Committee Report)

Main Theme & Purpose

Five years after January 6th, 2021, Bill Kristol and Tom Joscelyn reflect on what they call the “January 6th world”—a landscape in which the events of that day have become not a finale, but the prelude to a deeper crisis for American democracy. The conversation explores the lack of accountability for Trump and his allies, the ways institutions have normalized or enabled antidemocratic behavior, and how the lessons learned (and not learned) from that day shape current and future threats—especially to elections and the rule of law.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “January 6th World” and Lack of Accountability (01:52)

• Current State: Tom Joscelyn asserts that America is now "living in the January 6th world," where there has been no lasting accountability for Trump or senior officials.
• Trump’s Pardons: Trump issued blanket pardons and clemencies to everyone prosecuted for January 6th, including extremist group leaders (Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, “3 Percenters”), and those who assaulted police.
  • “So there’s been no accountability for January 6th in the long run here for America. And that’s a very dire state to be in, I think.” — Tom Joscelyn (01:52)
• Victims Overlooked: There’s little societal recognition for the officers who suffered (assault, injury, suicide), as the pardoned rioters are now celebrated by the current government.
  • "We now live in the January 6th world where the officers are not the heroes…we live in a January 6 world where the people who attack them are the ones who are being celebrated by the government." — Tom Joscelyn (03:23)

2. The Fading Outrage and Polarization (04:59)

• Initial Reaction: There was early shock and expectations of strong consequences following the pardons, which quickly faded from public attention in a polarized media landscape.
• Polarized Media’s Role: Only half the country is even concerned; the rest are consuming information in echo chambers that justify or ignore the events.
  • “It speaks to how polarized our country is...the bottom line is in our polarized media, a lot of people aren’t going to care about it because they’re not going to hear about it.” — Tom Joscelyn (05:41)

3. Conservative Movement’s Transformation (07:19)

• From Reagan to Alex Jones: The modern conservative movement has shifted from traditional conservatism to reactionary thought and conspiracy, now prioritizing loyalty to Trump over legal or constitutional principles.
  • “This is much more the party now and the thinking of Alex Jones than it is Ronald Reagan.” — Tom Joscelyn (07:19)

4. Legal and Institutional Retreat (09:39)

• Judicial Delays & Barricades: Judges such as Judge Cannon stalled or killed significant investigations, with Supreme Court delays ensuring no courtroom accountability. The Republican-controlled House suppressed meaningful release or testimony on the January 6th plot.
  • “Judge Cannon definitely killed the Mar-a-Lago documents case.” — Tom Joscelyn (09:39)
  • “They live in their own alternative reality. They don’t want the real facts to get in.” — Tom Joscelyn (10:06)

5. Trump’s Retained Power Over the GOP (11:15)

• Liz Cheney’s Fall: The host recounts how quickly the party enforced loyalty, turning on those who did not, such as Liz Cheney, showing Trump’s ability to maintain control even out of power.
  • “The speed with which out of power, Trump was able to control the party or Trumpists were able to control the party, I guess I didn’t…appreciate that.” — Bill Kristol (11:15)
• The Mob as Leverage: Trump’s enduring support base and cult of personality became the means to enforce party loyalty and suppress dissent.
  • “He had lost the mob. The mob is the leverage he had.” — Tom Joscelyn (12:49)

6. Erosion of Constitutional Norms (15:11, 15:51, 22:04)

• Elections Under Threat: The podcast explores Trump’s ongoing efforts to undermine election integrity, including gerrymandering, federal overreach via DOJ efforts to collect voter data, and executive orders aimed at subverting state control of elections.
  • “Living in the January 6th world means we live in a world in which the leader has no respect for our elections or their outcomes.” — Tom Joscelyn (15:51)
• Disinformation as Weapon: Right-wing media continues to amplify Trumpist election lies; settlements like Fox’s have little practical effect.
  • “This disinformation…is one of the big threats.” — Tom Joscelyn (18:46)
• Government Staffed by Loyalists: Trump’s second administration has ensured DOJ, DHS, and other institutions are run by loyalists, eliminating the resistance present in 2020.
  • “This administration…Trump goes after Chris Krebs…names him to go after him and try and harass him for things that he did that were on the side of justice…this time around…Trump learned…he needed a DOJ that would be pliable.” — Tom Joscelyn (20:28, 20:46)

7. How Checks and Balances Could Work (22:04)

• Necessity of Democratic Wins: Both guests emphasize that only a functioning, competitive Democratic Party and majority in Congress can check Trump’s power and begin restoring accountability.
  • "The first way back…is to have a functioning Democratic Party that actually wins power and holds this administration in check.” — Tom Joscelyn (22:22)
• All Hands on Deck: The political and legal fight must happen across every possible front—congressional, legal, state, grassroots, and media.

8. The “Velociraptors” Analogy (20:28, 23:37)

• Learning from 2020: Trump and his allies have learned how to “open the cages”–they now have the knowledge and personnel to manipulate government and elections more effectively than in 2020.
  • “The Velociraptors have learned how to open their cages. That's what we talked about…Trump learned in the lead up to January 6 that he needed a DOJ that would be pliable.” — Tom Joscelyn (20:28)

9. The Deep Post-Constitutional Shift (26:17)

• Systemic Threats: Rights under the First, Fourth, and Fourteenth Amendments, among others, have been openly threatened or violated, with the Trump administration seeking to centralize executive power at the expense of Congress and the judiciary.
  • ”The modern right is a post constitutional movement, and they have a post constitutional leader attempting to be.” — Tom Joscelyn (26:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "So there’s been no accountability for January 6th in the long run here for America. And that’s a very dire state to be in, I think." — Tom Joscelyn (01:52)
• "This is much more the party now and the thinking of Alex Jones than it is Ronald Reagan." — Tom Joscelyn (07:19)
• "He had lost the mob. The mob is the leverage he had." — Tom Joscelyn (12:49)
• "Living in the January 6th world means we live in a world in which the leader has no respect for our elections or their outcomes." — Tom Joscelyn (15:51)
• "The Velociraptors have learned how to open their cages." — Tom Joscelyn (20:28)
• "The modern right is a post constitutional movement, and they have a post constitutional leader attempting to be." — Tom Joscelyn (26:17)
• “It’s why we need the center left to really own a constitutional form of patriotism…and claim that they are the ones who represent America in the flag. Because they don’t.” — Tom Joscelyn (28:18)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:59 – Conversation begins, Kristol introduces Joscelyn
• 01:52 – Joscelyn on “no accountability” and the January 6th world
• 03:23 – Impact of blanket pardons and redefinition of heroism
• 05:41 – Polarization and media echo chambers
• 07:19 – The transformation of the conservative movement
• 09:39 – Judicial stalling of January 6th investigations
• 11:15 – Cheney, Republican loyalty, and Trump’s control
• 12:49 – “The mob is the leverage he had”—Trump’s grip on GOP
• 15:11 – Present and future threats to elections
• 15:51 – Details on Trump’s anti-democratic executive actions
• 20:28 – “Velociraptors open their cages”; Trump’s institutional learning
• 22:04 – What it would take to restore checks on presidential power
• 26:17 – The post-constitutional right: comprehensive assault on constitutional order
• 28:18 – Center-left must reclaim constitutional patriotism

Conclusion & Call to Action

The episode delivers a stark accounting of how the structures, responses, and norms in American democracy have been rewritten since January 6th, 2021. The guests underscore that restoring a constitutional order and defending future elections will require vigilance, action on every front, and the willingness to confront the interconnected, systemic nature of the threat. Their message is sober but not defeatist—there remains opportunity for resistance and renewal, but only if all defenders of democracy, across the political spectrum, recognize the scope and urgency of the challenge.