Bulwark Takes — Episode Summary
Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Will Saletan
Guest: Mona Charen
Episode: JD Vance Can’t Handle Reality—So He Rewrites It
Date: October 13, 2025
Overview
This episode features Will Saletan and Mona Charen dissecting J.D. Vance’s recent appearances on Sunday political shows, notably ABC's "This Week" with George Stephanopoulos and NBC's "Meet the Press" with Kristen Welker. The discussion centers around Vance's distortion of reality and dodging tough questions regarding federal overreach, prosecutorial double standards, and Donald Trump's authoritarian impulses. Saletan and Charen critique Vance’s evasions, his willingness to undermine foundational norms, and the broader themes of democratic erosion and rule-of-law subversion under the Trump administration.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Federal Overreach and the National Guard in Chicago
[02:02-05:04]
- Stephanopoulos asks Vance about sending federal troops into Chicago despite state opposition.
- Vance argues for intervention due to Illinois leaders’ alleged failures:
"Why shouldn't federal troops empower the people in Chicago to live safe lives when the governor and the local mayor just simply refuse to do their job?"
— J.D. Vance [02:02] - Mona Charen highlights the federalism violation and the hypocrisy in Vance's stance:
"He knows that this violates every standard about not mixing the military with domestic law enforcement...this idea that we can just, you know, on the grounds there’s crime, militarize the situation, send in the National Guard is appalling."
— Mona Charen [04:25] - Saletan underscores the abandonment of federalist principle:
"The whole Federalist system is...local control...But the Fed's going in is like—that is exactly what [Governor Stitt]’s talking about."
— Will Saletan [05:04]
2. Criminalizing Political Opponents and Authoritarian Overtones
[05:47-08:41]
- Trump suggested Illinois Governor Pritzker and Chicago Mayor Johnson should be jailed; Vance dodges answering.
- Stephanopoulos presses, and Vance only says leaders have "failed" and "should suffer some consequences," but leaves criminality vague:
"Whether he’s violated a crime, ultimately I would leave to the courts, but I certainly think that he has violated his fundamental oath of office. That seems pretty criminal to me."
— J.D. Vance [06:15] - Charen notes the danger:
"It is not a criminal offense for a governor of a state to not be fulfilling what the vice president thinks are his obligations. That is not a crime."
— Mona Charen [06:42] - Saletan calls out the slide into authoritarianism:
"If the president...posts a social media message saying that the governor and the mayor should be jailed...and the vice president asked three times will not say, 'no, it's not a crime'...that is authoritarianism."
— Will Saletan [07:40] - Charen underscores the slippery slope:
"This is only the beginning because the President is gearing up to invoke the Insurrection act...gives the President all kinds of authority to use the military as he sees fit. And that is the direction they're going."
— Mona Charen [08:05]
3. Selective Law Enforcement and Hypocrisy on Mortgage Fraud
[09:17-12:44]
- Highlighted by allegations that Trump officials committed similar mortgage fraud as Letitia James, whom the administration is prosecuting.
- Vance dismisses the ProPublica report as partisan:
"ProPublica is basically a left wing blog. I’m not shocked that you found a left wing blog that can attack members of the Trump administration."
— J.D. Vance [10:00] - Charen laments the MAGA strategy of delegitimizing any inconvenient fact:
"Anything that they don’t like, they will just brand as, you know, ultra left wing, you know, whatever...The issue is, are the facts true or are they false? But the MAGA people always want to make it...that you can dismiss facts if they come from a source you don’t like."
— Mona Charen [11:30] - Vance shrugs off accusations against Trump officials, focusing only on prosecution of political enemies:
"I’m not worried about what they said about members of our administration..."
— J.D. Vance [12:06] - Saletan calls out the double standard and lack of accountability:
"He just said, it doesn't matter what people in our administration did, we’re going to prosecute them for the same thing."
— Will Saletan [12:25]
4. Evasion and Reality Denial
[12:44-13:53]
- Charen points to Vance's broader strategy:
"He will just blatantly sit there and deny reality. And he does it with great aplomb...He simply says, well, I saw reports, media reports about this, media reports. So an inconvenient fact becomes just a media report, not something that is part of our agreed upon mutual reality."
— Mona Charen [12:44]
5. Direct Political Prosecution: Presidential Interference with Justice
[13:53-18:15]
- On "Meet the Press," Vance defends Trump directing DOJ investigations against political opponents.
- Vance claims due process and legal standards are preserved:
"If the law didn't necessitate an investigation and a prosecution...it wouldn't happen...The president is allowed to have opinions about the law enforcement of the federal government."
— J.D. Vance [14:36] - Saletan calls out factual inaccuracy regarding prior prosecutors declining to indict until pressured by Trump.
- Charen warns of danger:
"He knows full well that in our system, you prosecute the crime, not the man...Any other system where you 'show me the man and I’ll show you the crime,' which was a line attributed to Stalin, is unjust and is not the way we do things here...Trump is going after his critics. He cares about going after his critics."
— Mona Charen [15:29 & 17:20] - The synergy of legal knowledge and ethical bankruptcy is spotlighted:
"Law school will teach you how to argue something...It will not teach you ethics. It will not teach you to be an honorable, honest person."
— Will Saletan [18:15]
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
- "Our Pinocchio Vice President. J.D." — Will Saletan [00:56]
- "It’s like in a movie when there’s a villain who tells a horrible lie...and you in the audience are just cringing...The problem here is that with these MAGA people, and I have to say, JD is really the master of this, that they never get [caught]. Their lies just go on and on and on forever." — Mona Charen [02:30]
- "The Insurrection act...is very poorly drafted, it's very vague, gives the President all kinds of authority to use the military as he sees fit. And that is the direction they're going." — Mona Charen [08:05]
- "He cares about going after his critics. He cares about people who criticized him or who made him feel bad or who annoyed him or who were some kind of thorn in his side. And that’s the only reason [for prosecution]." — Mona Charen [17:20]
Important Timestamps
- [02:02] Vance justifies federal troop intervention in Chicago.
- [04:25] Charen explains how Vance violates federalist and legal norms.
- [06:15] Vance equivocates on whether Governor Pritzker committed a crime.
- [08:05] Charen discusses presidential plans to invoke the Insurrection Act.
- [10:00] Vance dismisses ProPublica's reporting as partisan.
- [12:06] Vance openly shrugs off double standards in law enforcement.
- [14:36] Vance defends presidential interference in DOJ prosecutions.
- [15:29] Charen draws analogy to Stalinist justice.
Conclusion
This episode underscores JD Vance’s and the Trump administration’s alarming willingness to rewrite legal and political norms for partisan purposes. The hosts emphasize the dangers of undermining federalism, embracing authoritarian tactics, and fostering a post-truth political environment. Using direct quotes and sharp critique, Saletan and Charen expose the rhetorical tactics and ethical evasions that have come to define the current political landscape.
For listeners:
If you missed the episode, this summary captures the central arguments, notable exchanges, and the tone of alarm that runs through the Bulwark’s analysis of JD Vance’s media tour and its broader implications for American democracy.