Bulwark Takes: “Just Measles” Left Her Sister Disabled for Life (w/ Therese Vogel)

Date: March 20, 2026
Host: Sam Stein (Bulwark)
Guests: Jonathan Con (author of Breakdown newsletter), Therese Vogel (retired RN, Grandparents for Vaccines advocate)

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the resurgence of vaccine hesitancy in the United States, focusing on the forgotten dangers of diseases like measles due to decreased vaccination rates. Through a personal and moving story shared by Therese Vogel about her sister Nancy, the conversation highlights the crucial work of the advocacy group Grandparents for Vaccines. The group seeks to remind the public of the real and lasting consequences preventable diseases can have—consequences now resurfacing as anti-vaccine sentiment grows, even among political leaders.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Forgotten Dangers of Measles (00:28–08:18)

• Therese Vogel’s Story:

  • Therese recounts her sister Nancy, who contracted measles as a child in the pre-vaccine era. Nancy suffered from severe complications (encephalitis), resulting in lifelong intellectual disabilities.
  • “She was born developmentally normal, but when she got measles, she was one of the ones who developed encephalitis as a complication... She was left with intellectual disabilities that affected her for the rest of her life.” (Therese Vogel, 02:21)
  • Nancy’s trajectory: special education, sheltered workshop employment, semi-independent living, and, ultimately, dementia and assisted living support.
  • The family’s enduring feeling: grief for “the kind of life she could have had if the measles vaccine had been available then” (Therese Vogel, 06:26).

• Generational Memory Loss:

  • Sam and Jonathan emphasize that because vaccination has long kept diseases like measles at bay, many Americans have no lived memory of its dangers.
  • “There’s a whole generation of people that just really have not quite... it hasn’t dawned on them that this sort of thing can become part of life again.” (Therese Vogel, 08:32)

The Political and Social Landscape (08:18–15:47)

• The Rise of Vaccine Hesitancy:

  • Sam asks Therese about witnessing public figures cast doubt on vaccines: “What it was like for you to watch... political leaders go out there and say, well, this is... an unnecessary vaccine, or it’s a vaccine that actually causes more harm than good?” (Sam Stein, 07:35)
  • Therese’s response: “Really challenging, really difficult... we’re going to probably have to go through some tough times where people are going to be caught in this web... not vaccinated that, that weren’t expecting that.” (Therese Vogel, 08:18–09:12)

• Complacency and Collective Amnesia:

  • Jonathan: “It’s extraordinary... people lined up for the polio vaccine... That was because these people... everyone knew people who had had these diseases... they appreciated what a life-changing, life-saving development these were. And we have seen vaccine hesitancy rise.” (Jonathan Con, 09:56)
  • The effect of political leadership (e.g., Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as HHS Secretary) fanning the flames of distrust, but also that it’s easier now because “people have forgotten” (Jonathan Con, 10:50).

Measles, Outbreaks, and the Science (11:21–15:47)

• Herd Immunity Thresholds:

  • Therese shares recent data: “Measles is one of the most contagious diseases in the world. It takes a vaccination rate of 95% to achieve herd immunity... now we’re seeing communities... down to 75–78%.” (Therese Vogel, 12:30)

• Recent Outbreaks:

  • Jonathan outlines outbreaks in South Carolina, Texas, North Carolina, Florida—how declining rates in communities, especially those with large numbers of unvaccinated/homeschooled individuals, leave many vulnerable.
  • “An outbreak can start and... you’ll find hundreds of people. You can get above a thousand... now you have an outbreak there.” (Jonathan Con, 14:23)
  • Importance of protecting immunocompromised: “There are people who can’t get the vaccine... if measles is circulating... this is affecting them.” (Jonathan Con, 15:32)

Messaging, Memory, and Grandparents for Vaccines (19:30–25:26)

• Outreach and Storytelling:

  • Therese describes the strategy: “We tell our stories... to community gatherings, maybe at our church or, you know, community center... made YouTube videos to just sort of talk about it... we’re not trying to... shame people or... scare people... we’re just simply telling our stories.” (Therese Vogel, 19:56)
  • Addresses how non-vaccination is not “just a personal decision. It affects everyone around you.” (Therese Vogel, 20:59)

• Social Media and Trust:

  • Sam references a surprising study: exposure to social media increased vaccine uptake among Republicans, especially when it showed “people important to them were getting vaccinations.” (Sam Stein, 22:06)
  • Jonathan: “The messenger matters... it isn’t even so much that someone is telling them these are what the facts show. What the studies found was that, oh, people I know are getting vaccinated. Wait a minute, then maybe this thing is okay.” (Jonathan Con, 23:20)
  • Direct peer connection and seeing “real live person” is key.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Forgotten Dangers:
  “Kids that get measles... most kids... it’s fairly benign. But there’s... those one in however many... that either can die from it or can develop encephalitis and suffer a lasting disability such as my sister, or blindness or deafness.”
  — Therese Vogel (07:01)

• On the Emotional Toll of Skepticism:
  “It’s really challenging... because it has been under control so well... people hadn’t seen situations such as Nancy’s... it hasn’t dawned on them... that this sort of thing can become part of life again.”
  — Therese Vogel (08:18)

• On Complacency After Progress:
  “It’s an easy door to push on because people have forgotten and they don’t remember these things.”
  — Jonathan Con (10:50)

• On Vulnerability of the Unvaccinated and Immunocompromised:
  “There are people who can’t get the vaccine... if measles is circulating... this is affecting them.”
  — Jonathan Con (15:32)

• On Hope and Motivation:
  “It has helped me because it was really hard when Nancy died... This has given me kind of a... mission, basically. And I truly think... my sister Nancy... she’s up in heaven looking down and cheering me on... she would go talk with people about developmental disabilities and what it’s like living with a disability, and she’d be going, ‘Go for it.’”
  — Therese Vogel (25:34)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Therese Vogel’s backstory and Nancy’s life: 01:56–06:31
• Generational amnesia and resurgence of disease: 09:56–11:21
• Science of herd immunity and falling vaccination rates: 12:30–13:36
• Recent measles outbreaks and their implications: 13:25–15:47
• Grandparents for Vaccines’ strategy and impact: 19:30–21:41
• Social science of messaging and effective outreach: 22:35–24:36
• Therese’s personal motivation and closing thoughts: 25:26–27:12

Summary

This episode provides a compelling look at how fragile public health victories can be when collective memory fades. Therese Vogel’s story puts a human face to the statistics, reminding listeners of the profound and preventable damage illnesses like measles can cause. The conversation demonstrates that personal stories and community-based advocacy can offer a powerful counter to misinformation, particularly as many Americans, including political leaders, grow skeptical of scientific consensus.

Takeaway:
Vaccines are not just a personal protection; they are a shared responsibility, the benefits of which can be forgotten in a single generation—sometimes with tragic consequences. The voices of those who remember, like Therese and other grandparents, are vital in preserving hard-won public health progress.