Bulwark Takes – JVL and Bill Kristol React to Hegseth & Trump’s Strange Speech to Generals
Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: September 30, 2025
Featuring: JVL (A) and Bill Kristol (C)
Overview:
JVL and Bill Kristol break down, with urgency and alarm, the first-ever full briefing of the U.S. flag officer corps by President Trump and (now) Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. The episode explores the substance and symbolism of Trump's speech—marked by rambling, hyperbolic, and authoritarian overtones—and discusses the military's stolid response, the dangers of politicization, and the historic nature of this moment. Clips from the speech are analyzed, with particular focus on Trump's calls for domestic military deployment and Hegseth's reactionary vision for the armed forces.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Contrasting Immediate Reactions
- JVL’s View: The event was “as serious as a heart attack” in its implications for American democracy, even while featuring clownish elements.
- Kristol’s Perspective: Trump embodies a “dangerous clownishness.” The military’s notably reserved, professional response was somewhat reassuring, suggesting no open alignment with Trump’s agenda.
- Quote:
“Hegseth and Trump both wanted applause, offered applause lines, invited applause, really. ...They stood as they always do... gave him perfunctory and respectful applause at the end, but that was pretty much it.” — Kristol (01:10)
- Quote:
2. The Room’s Tense, Stoic Atmosphere
- Transcript Observations: Reports confirm senior officers were “expressionless and inscrutable” as Trump delivered rambling remarks mixing policy with grievance politics and attacks on domestic opponents.
- Quote:
"If you were expecting a scene from Triumph of the Will, that’s not what you got. You got fat Elvis." — JVL (02:41)
- Quote:
- Military’s Perception: Both speakers suggest the generals likely felt alarm at the incoherent and boastful performance.
3. The Content & Danger of Trump’s Speech ([09:14], [09:43], [11:45])
- Trump described American cities as war zones, repeatedly referring to citizens as “animals” and likening urban issues to military threats.
- Quote:
“Our firemen are incredible... they’re up in one of these ladders... and you have animals shooting at them.” — Trump via clip (09:14)
- Quote:
- Trump called America “under invasion from within,” equating domestic political opponents with foreign enemies and implying use of armed force against them.
- Quote:
“America is under invasion from within... no different than a foreign enemy... we are under invasion from within. We’re stopping it very quickly.” — Trump via clip (09:43)
- Quote:
- Trump openly advocated military action domestically—using cities as “training grounds” for National Guard and military intervention.
- Quote:
"He referred to people as animals, enemies. He wouldn't speak about Putin this way. He didn’t mention Xi at all… It’s his domestic enemies that he’s really, really focused on." — JVL (12:28)
- Quote:
- Trump attempted to justify domestic military deployment by referencing historical precedents, distorting history to fit his agenda.
- Quote:
“Our history is filled with military heroes who took on all enemies, foreign and domestic. …George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Grover Cleveland, George Bush… all used the armed forces to keep domestic order and peace.” — Trump via clip (11:45)
- Quote:
4. The Policy Problem: Militarization of Domestic Affairs ([12:22]–[16:38])
- JVL and Kristol underscore that the heart of the speech—and the administration’s agenda—is the expansion of the military’s domestic role, equating opposition (Democrats, urban residents) with enemies.
- Alarm Over Oath and Allegiance:
- JVL: “...it seems to me that this is a warning to everybody in that room that at some point in the future, they’re going to be forced to choose between their oath and Trump.” (12:50)
- Kristol: “It really is just so beyond deplorable that a President would give this kind of speech to military officers... even to say it not to military officers is bad enough.” (13:35)
- Contrast with Past Practice: Mobilizing troops for crises (e.g., LA riots in 1992) involved state and federal cooperation, not open-ended, politically motivated deployments.
5. Hegseth’s “Macho Cosplay” and Military Culture Wars ([17:24]–[22:22])
- Hegseth (Trump’s newly minted Secretary of Defense) presents a hyper-masculine, “warrior” vision—where military strength is for show but actual foreign wars are to be avoided.
- JVL: “The whole idea of America First is we’re not going to get into wars, we are not going to send troops anywhere, but we’ve got to be all butch... the only way to resolve that tension is to focus on using the military as domestic enforcers.” (18:46)
- Physical Fitness as Virtue Signaling:
- Hegseth’s focus on PT (physical training) is described as missing the point of modern warfare ("right now we are undergoing a transformation... it has all to do with drones... What does have a lot to do with bullying? Doing pullups is busting heads on the street.” (18:25))
6. Reactionary Revisionism and Authoritarian Trappings ([25:03]–[26:44])
- Renaming and Propaganda: Both hosts draw attention to Trump's and Hegseth’s fixation on symbolic gestures—renaming the Department of Defense, glorifying an imaginary past.
- JVL: “Every time you have an authoritarian movement, one of the first things they do is start renaming shit.” (25:09)
- Kristol: “It’s a sign of their authoritarianism and their disdain for the actual history…” (26:16)
- Skepticism about Cohesion:
- Kristol sees the contradiction in Hegseth/Trump rhetoric that denigrates the last 30 years of military leadership (who carried out the very missions and built the force being praised).
7. Politicizing the Military: Personnel and Promotions ([32:34]–[35:01])
- Attacks on Predecessors and Generals: Trump reviled previous generals and even prior commanders-in-chief (Obama, Biden), branding them as illegitimate or harmful.
- Worry about the Future:
- Kristol: “Three years of politicized promotions and firings, of rewarding people who go along with, with, with the MAGA agenda. Even if the military is holding for now, will it hold in three years? That, that I think is extremely worrisome.” (34:19)
- Legitimacy and Loyalty:
- JVL: “He is making the case for the person of Donald Trump being the only legitimate authority to hold the power of commander-in-chief.” (31:31)
8. Final Reflections and Uncertainty
- JVL and Kristol conclude with uncertainty and unease about how long the professional military will hold out under sustained politicization and internal purges.
- Kristol: “Maybe we muddle through it for three plus years, but three plus years is a long time.” (27:55)
- Both reiterate that the moment is historically unprecedented and fraught with risk.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “If you were expecting a scene from Triumph of the Will, that’s not what you got. You got fat Elvis.”
— JVL (02:41) - “The heart of Trumpism is that it's both clownish and very dangerous.”
— Kristol (00:51) - “He referred to people as animals, enemies. He wouldn’t speak about Putin this way. He didn’t mention Xi at all... It’s his domestic enemies that he’s really, really focused on.”
— JVL (12:28) - “Every time you have an authoritarian movement, one of the first things they do is start renaming shit.”
— JVL (25:09) - “It’s a sign of their authoritarianism and their disdain for the actual history... their wish to impose their own cartoon version of things on society.”
— Kristol (26:16) - “He is making the case for the person of Donald Trump being the only legitimate authority to hold the power of commander-in-chief.”
— JVL (31:31) - “Three years of politicized promotions and firings... Even if the military is holding for now, will it hold in three years? That, that I think is extremely worrisome.”
— Kristol (34:19)
Timestamps for Important Segments
| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Opening clash of perspectives; the seriousness and clownishness | | 02:15 | The military’s stoic response; pool/press observations | | 09:14 | Trump’s speech: urban “war zones” and militarized rhetoric | | 11:45 | Trump distorts military history for domestic military action | | 13:28 | Alarm about the oath: Trump versus Constitutional loyalty | | 16:58 | Trump’s lies about Biden and “strongest military” | | 18:25 | Hegseth’s “macho cosplay” and critique of military direction | | 22:30 | Tension between “warrior” rhetoric and policing at home | | 25:09 | Renaming & symbolism—authoritarian propaganda | | 31:31 | Trump as “only legitimate authority”; attacks on ex-generals | | 34:19 | Politicized promotions and the long-term risks |
Conclusion
This episode dissects an unprecedented moment in U.S. civil-military relations, highlighting the dangers of Trump’s overtly political, divisive speech to senior military officers, as well as the performative, reactionary vision of Secretary Hegseth. JVL and Kristol raise serious concerns about the future of civilian control, the politicization of military leadership, and the threat to democratic norms should current trends continue. Both hosts end on a note of uncertainty, warning that the greatest tests may yet be ahead.
(Summary preserves key speaker language and tone. Community, policy, and institutional vulnerability are recurring threads throughout the episode.)