Kaine: Trump’s Shutdown Is Pure Neglect

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Bulwark Takes — “Kaine: Trump’s Shutdown Is Pure Neglect”
Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Senator Tim Kaine (Virginia)
Date: November 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Sam Stein in conversation with Senator Tim Kaine the morning after significant Democratic victories in Virginia and across the country. The pair analyze the political lessons from these wins, discuss the ongoing government shutdown under President Trump, address the evolving filibuster debate, touch on the politicization of federal prosecutions in Virginia, and close with Senator Kaine’s sustained push for congressional restraint on presidential war powers—especially in light of Trump’s military actions in Venezuela.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lessons from Democratic Electoral Victories

• Core Strategies: Kaine credits disciplined, focused campaigns—like Abigail Spanberger’s in Virginia—for prioritizing the economy, affordability, jobs, and education over distractions.
  • Kaine: “There were three pillars. It was affordability and jobs and... education. But education is really key to the workforce. Not just kids, but to the workforce. And she stuck in that lane... we don’t make the economy front and center.” (01:42–02:51)
• Democratic Messaging Weakness: Historically, Democrats have allowed themselves to be sidetracked from economic messaging—something Kaine believes the latest results could correct.
  • Kaine: “The economy is always the issue that matters the most… But Democrats just talk about other stuff. We just can’t resist…” (02:08–02:51)
• Comparisons to 2016: Stein draws a parallel with the Clinton-Kaine campaign, noting the struggle to focus on proactive, positive messaging over Trump attacks.
  • Kaine: “I would get talking points… always attacks on Trump rather than celebrating either Democratic accomplishments or Hillary’s own virtues… not what the campaign was hoping to focus on.” (03:18–03:37)

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2. Economic Case Against Trump

• Implicit Critique: Kaine sees recent electoral successes as partially rooted in making economics a referendum on Trump’s presidency.
  • Kaine: “It is an implied criticism of Trump… we have an economy that was the strongest in the world when Donald Trump took it over, that now has smoke and red lights flashing… he’s taken the wrecking ball to it.” (03:53–04:29)
• Expanding the Map: Citing unexpected gains in states like Georgia and Mississippi, Kaine expresses growing confidence in Democrats’ Senate prospects.
  • Kaine: “Six months ago I would have said it would have been drawn to an inside straight to do that. There was a chance, but it would have been very hard. I think the directional arrow has been stronger and stronger…” (04:52–05:19)

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3. Virginia as a Template for National Campaigns

• Turnaround State: Kaine positions Virginia as a reflection of shifting political tides and a model for winning swing states through competence and economic focus.
  • Kaine: “Virginia’s electorate is... similar to North Carolina and Georgia, maybe a little bit similar to Ohio and Pennsylvania… We believe we're the best turnaround project in the United States from red to blue in the last 25 years…” (05:19–06:08)
• Governance: Emphasizes the importance (and voter appreciation) of competent, if sometimes ‘boring,’ management.

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4. Congressional Redistricting and Virginia’s Future

• Redistricting Momentum: With new Democratic majorities, Virginia is likely to proceed with mid-decade redistricting, unless Republican-led red states halt their own.
  • Kaine: “It's going to happen unless the red states sort of back off. But that may be already horses out of the barn...” (06:34–07:22)

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5. The Ongoing Trump Shutdown

• Presidential Neglect: Kaine lambasts Trump’s refusal to personally engage in negotiations as the core reason for the historic government shutdown.
  • Kaine: “The problem... has been that the missing party, Donald Trump… he says, ‘I won’t be extorted.’ …We would be out of this in a few hours if he would engage.” (07:42–08:19)
  • Quote: “I don’t know why sitting down with congressional leadership reminds him of extortion. Maybe in his life, extortion has been a more common theme than in most people…” (08:04–08:15)
• Impact of Elections: Hopes the fresh Democratic victories force Trump to realize “sitting on the sidelines and just waiting for a solution isn’t going to happen.” (08:26–08:33)

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6. Filibuster Debate

• Reform Stance: Kaine supports reform, not elimination, of the filibuster—preferring a return to the “talking filibuster” tradition.
  • Kaine: “It’s not eliminating it, but it’s putting it back to how it used to be used—sort of the talking filibuster model.” (09:08–09:37)
• Balance of Power: Stresses the need to consider both majority and minority perspectives when weighing such reforms.

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7. Politicization of Federal Prosecutors

• Eastern District of Virginia Crisis: The Trump administration's controversial nomination of Lindsey Halligan and prosecution of James Comey have raised serious concerns.
  • Kaine: “She’s going to need to come through the Judiciary Committee for a confirmation hearing... If she does, I’m going to be glad to sit down with her.” (10:03–10:46)
  • Notes previous nominees were dismissed for refusing to pursue political prosecutions.

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8. War Powers and Venezuela

• Push for Congressional Authorization: Kaine is preparing a Senate vote to require explicit authorization before any further U.S. military action in Venezuela.
  • Kaine: “We will likely have a vote tomorrow... no war in Venezuela without a vote of Congress. And… more Republicans might join me.” (11:27–12:12)
  • On Congress’s Duty: “Members of Congress need to have the guts to cast a vote about war. And that’s what I’m going to try to force tomorrow...” (12:16–12:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Democratic Discipline:
  “She never got out of that. And, and that has been my critique, Sam, of Democrats for a long time…”
  – Tim Kaine, (01:42–02:08)

• On Trump’s Shutdown Strategy:
  “The missing party, Donald Trump… If he would have engaged, we wouldn’t even have been into it.”
  – Tim Kaine, (07:47–08:13)

• On Filibuster Reform:
  “It’s basically returning the filibuster to what it had been during virtually the entire life of the United States Senate.”
  – Tim Kaine, (09:21–09:28)

• On Congressional War Powers:
  “Members of Congress need to have the guts to cast a vote about war. And that’s what I’m going to try to force tomorrow…”
  – Tim Kaine, (12:29–12:37)

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Timeline of Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:00 | Episode begins, election recap intro with Tim Kaine | | 01:42 | Kaine outlines lessons from Virginia Democratic victories | | 03:18 | Reflection on 2016, weak Democratic economic messaging | | 04:52 | Democratic Senate prospects after election results | | 06:34 | Discussion of redistricting and Virginia’s direction | | 07:23 | Government shutdown—the missing president in negotiations | | 08:39 | Filibuster reform—“talking filibuster” model | | 09:38 | Issue of politicized prosecutions in Virginia | | 10:46 | War powers, Venezuela, and congressional prerogative |

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Tone & Language Notes

The episode features a conversational, candid tone, reflecting both Sam Stein’s incisive questioning and Senator Kaine’s willingness to admit party failings and frustrations. Kaine’s rhetorical style remains practical and earnest, frequently pausing to underscore the need for Democratic discipline, effective economic messaging, and restoring broader democratic norms—both in domestic politics and foreign affairs.

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For listeners seeking a crisp but comprehensive briefing on current Democratic strategies, the Trump-induced shutdown, and the delicate constitutional stakes in war powers disputes, this episode stands out as both timely and insightful.

Transcript

[Senator Tim Kaine]

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[Sam Stein]

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[Senator Tim Kaine]

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[Senator Tim Kaine]

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[Sam Stein]

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[Carvana Narrator]

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[Sam Stein]

Hey, everybody, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bork. And I am pleased to be joined by Senator Tim Kaine of the great Commonwealth of Virginia. I got that right. See you did, Sam.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Very good, man.

[Sam Stein]

A few things I can still get right. We are talking the morning after a fairly smashing and resounding victory for Virginia Democrats and frankly for Democrats across the country. The party captured, recaptured all the statewide offices, made huge gains in the state assembly. And yeah, I want to start off with a difficult question, but it's very hard to find one for you. So I'm going to. I'm going to go with this one. What's your hot take on the elections from last night? And it has to be unique. Don't make it a bland take.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Okay, yeah, no, I'm going to. I mean, I'll tell you the truth. Abigail was very, very disciplined and she made her campaign about the economy. There were three pillars. It was affordability and jobs and. And education. But education is really key to the workforce. Not just kids, but to the workforce. And she stuck in that lane. No matter what they tried to throw at her, no matter what the other side was going after.

[Sam Stein]

She.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

She never got out of that. And, and that has been my critique, Sam, of Democrats for a long time, is that the economy is always the issue that matters the most to the most people. But when you do a generic polling of the American public, well, who's better for the economy, Republicans or Democrats? And usually they say Republicans, even though I think the evidence is actually better for Democrats. But Democrats just talk about other stuff. We just can't resist chasing this or that rabbit and talking about other stuff. And we don't make the economy front and center. And I think campaigns like Abigail's and look very different than the New York mayor, but they ran on affordability. So I think they're showing us a path which is put the economy front and center. Many other issues are really important. Talk about them, too, but put the economy front and center.

[Sam Stein]

It's funny you mentioned that. I hadn't. I wasn't planning on bringing this up, but it does sort of remind me of you and Hillary Clinton, frankly, in 2016, where you're running down the stretch and, you know, Trump presents this unique kind of existential threat and you feel the need to grab onto that and campaign on it. And that tripped you up in 2016. Is that something that's. Is that a fair assessment?

[Senator Tim Kaine]

I think it's fair. Look, I would get talking points from the campaign every day about what they wanted me to say, and it was always attacks on Trump rather than celebrating either Democratic accomplishments or Hillary's own virtues and accomplishments. And I would always have to add that in and ad lib that in, because that was not what the campaign was. Was hoping to focus on.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. It's amazing that we're like 10 years down the road and we're still. And Democrats are still having these discussions internally about how to focus, but it does seem like across the board, even Zoram Hamdani, it was really cost of living economics, and that was the main focus.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Yep. And look, it is an implied criticism of Trump because obviously the guy ran on it. You know, I'm going to help the price of eggs go down. Price of everything's gone up. Tariffs, reckon folks deportation, and the immigration policies are screwing up the workforce in the AG and other sectors. And so we have an economy that was the strongest in the world when Donald Trump took it over, that now has smoke and red lights flashing and, you know, all kinds of challenges because he's taken the wrecking ball to it. And Democrats can make an economic argument that sticks with people because they don't like the way Donald Trump's running things.

[Sam Stein]

When you look at the results from last night, and I know Republicans are spinning it by saying, well, these are blue states. And I mean, look, maybe so Jersey and Virginia are not the most blue state, but there were real results in Georgia and Mississippi as well. Not blue states. Yeah. Do you look at that and say, hey, my party has a legitimate chance actually to win back control of the United States Senate?

[Senator Tim Kaine]

I do. You know, six months ago I would have said it would have been drawn to an inside straight to do that. There was a chance, but it would have been very hard. I think the directional arrow has been stronger and stronger and stronger and I think last night shows that. And I am Virginia centric. So I will say I don't think the New York City electorate or even the New Jersey electorate is like the precise match for the American electorate. But here in Virginia, we, we do have a Republican governor right now. We will elect Republicans. I think that Virginia's electorate is, is, you know, kind of similar to North Carolina and Georgia, maybe a little bit similar to Ohio and Pennsylvania. Some of the states we have to win to win the Senate, we have to win electoral votes there if we're going to win the presidency in 28. I think Virginia is a pretty good barometer for how to do that. We, we believe we're the best turnaround project in the United States from red to blue in the last 25 years. And we by winning the economic argument. And then when we get the chance, we govern competently, even if boringly, you know, competent, good management give people bang for their buck, you know, and you know, folks like that competence usually isn't a big campaign issue unless people perceive there's vast incompetence, in which case they suddenly like confidence.

[Sam Stein]

Look, no one's going to say Terry McAuliffe was boring, but Mark Warner will give you.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Warner and me are more boring than Terry.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, big. So the election was big also for the House. I know there were no House races, but Virginia Democrats are now in the position to go full throttle, it appears with this redistricting effort that they're going to do. I assume you believe this will happen.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Sam, it's going to happen unless the red states sort of back off. But that may be already horses out of the barn because the Dems position this, I think even in the legislation that they passed, you know, so long as X number of states are, you know, being lemmings and following President Trump and doing a mid decennial redistricting for political purposes, we're doing this. So I think they've maintained an off ramp to not do it if Republican states choose to stop or go backwards. But I think that die probably is cast. Donald Trump is, is forcing Republican states, you know, to, to do it. Some states like Kansas are choosing not to, but Texas has, Indiana is looking at it. Other states have. So I think this will happen in Virginia.

[Sam Stein]

I only have about five more minutes. I got three topics so I'm going to get them all in. You're in the middle of a government shutdown. Longest shutdown in history. There have been rumblings that a deal was imminent, or at least close to imminent. And now we have this election. How does this election affect the shutdown negotiations, if at all?

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Here would be a way it could affect the negotiation. The problem with the negotiation thus far has been that the missing party, Donald Trump, it's like Waiting for Godot. You know, we avoid shutdowns or get out of them when the president engages. The president thus far has chosen not to engage. He even says that negotiation, you know, which is what you always do. He says, I won't be extorted. I don't know why sitting down with congressional leadership reminds him of extortion. Maybe in his life, extortion has been a more common theme than in most people, but he thinks, you know, negotiation is beneath him, and this is what presidents do. We would be out of this in a few hours if he would engage. We wouldn't even have been into it if he would have engaged. And so I think if the elections last night have any effect on this, it's going to be maybe convincing him that sitting on the sidelines and just waiting for a solution isn't going to happen. If it'll make him engage, then we will find a quick path forward. There are bipartisan discussions.

[Sam Stein]

It doesn't appear that's the way he's going. He renewed his call to get rid of the filibuster this morning, although Majority Leader Thune says the votes aren't there. Look, you've been in favor of filibuster reform. You've been.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Yes.

[Sam Stein]

You probably don't remember this, but the first time you and I talked was 2016, close of the campaign, where you embraced eliminating the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees. Are you quietly comfortable with the idea of them getting rid of the filibuster for this?

[Senator Tim Kaine]

You know. You know, you got.

[Sam Stein]

If.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

If you're for filibuster reform, you have to put. Try it on for size and think in the majority and think of the minority in the. The reform that Senator Merklin I put on the table. We had a vote on it in the Senate in 2021, I believe, or. Or 2022, I would still embrace. And it's basically returning the filibuster to what it had been during virtually the entire life of the United States Senate. It's not eliminating it, but it's putting it back to how it used to Be used sort of the talking filibuster model.

[Sam Stein]

Talking filibuster, yeah. The other question I had was there's a kind of mini crisis, not really mini, but a real crisis, happening in the Eastern District of Virginia. The, the installment of Lindsey Halligan there as the U.S. attorney, and now the prosecutions of James Comey, which apparently are not going well in court. That's for another conversation. I am curious, have you had any conversations with Lindsey Halligan since she's been installed?

[Senator Tim Kaine]

No. No. And she, you know, she's going to need to come through the Judiciary Committee for a confirmation hearing and vote, but thus far, she, she has not reached out to our office or Senator Warner's office for a discussion. If she does, I'm going to be glad to sit down with her. You know, we had a really good process. We recommended people to the White House that the White House liked so much. They put him in a position, Todd Gilbert in the Western District, Eric Siebert in the Eastern District. But then neither of those guys would compromise on their integrity and push political persecutions, and so they both lost their jobs as a result. But if Ms. Halligan wants to reach out, I know Senator Warner and I would be glad to talk to her.

[Sam Stein]

My last question for you is what's happening in Venezuela? I mean, there's been a campaign in the Caribbean and now in the Eastern Pacific. You have pushed for a war power resolution. This is, this is your hobby horse, I would say you have as a partner in this. You have ran Paul, who's been saying, lone Republicans, saying this is both illegal and unethical. And yet there's no indication that the administration is going to abide by any congressional restraint. In fact, it looks like they're ramping up efforts to unseat Maduro. What are your fears here and are there constraints that Congress can apply realistically to what Donald Trump's doing?

[Senator Tim Kaine]

Yes, The. We will likely have a vote tomorrow, Sam, on my, on my resolution, no war in Venezuela without a vote of Congress. And I got, we got two. When Adam Schiff and I did, you know, no strikes in the Caribbean without a vote of Congress, we got two Republicans, Rand Paul and Lisa Murkowski. The White House at least claims a, you know, legal rationale for the strikes in international waters. I've read that rationale. It says nothing about allowing strikes in a sovereign nation. And so I'm hoping that more Republicans might join me tomorrow. But look, you're right, this was my obsession when I came into the Senate. I, I came in, in the middle of two wars, you know, or with Afghanistan still going on, but the lessons of Iraq fresh in mind. And then we were back in Iraq to fight isis. We should not be going to war without a vote of Congress. And Congress should craft the authorizations carefully and debate them in front of the American public and have a vote. Too often, members of Congress are afraid to sign on the dotted line. They want the president to just initiate war. If it goes well, we were with you. If it goes bad, how come you did it? Members of Congress need to have the guts to cast a vote about war. And that's what I'm going to try to force tomorrow with respect to Venezuela.

[Sam Stein]

All right, we fit a lot in there for 12 minutes. Senator Kane, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Take care. Always. Go.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

See, you've wrangled filibustering senators before into giving short answers, so I'm glad we could do that.

[Sam Stein]

I try my best, man. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you. Thank you guys for tuning into these conversations. Subscribe to the Bulwark.