Kash Patel Gets Grilled on His Drinking Habits in Senate Hearing

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Kash Patel Gets Grilled on His Drinking Habits in Senate Hearing

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Hosts: Sam Stein, Will Sommer
Date: May 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes features Sam Stein and Will Sommer analyzing a Senate hearing where FBI Director Kash Patel faces pointed questions from Senator Chris Van Hollen about Patel's alleged drinking habits, as well as his reported paranoia regarding leaks within the FBI. The hosts play and dissect hearing clips, highlight the evolving norms of Senate combative questioning under the Trump administration, and reflect on the dynamic between Patel, Trump, and Congressional oversight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Why This Hearing Mattered

• [00:30] The episode kicks off with Sam and Will explaining the background: a high-profile Senate hearing with FBI Director Kash Patel, marked by “explosive stuff” involving questions about Patel’s drinking.
  • Sam Stein: “It was worth doing anyway… the most explosive stuff was around Kash Patel’s alleged drinking.”
  • Will Sommer: “He is handing out bourbon bottles all over the place. So, like, semi alleged drinking, I guess.”

2. The ‘Audit Test’ Exchange

• [01:11–01:34] Senator Chris Van Hollen presses Patel to take the Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test (AUDIT), commonly given to military personnel.
  • Senator Van Hollen: “Are you willing to take the... AUDIT test?”
  • Kash Patel (reply via Sam): “I’ll take any test you’re willing to take.”
  • Hosts note Patel looks “pretty disheveled… top button’s open, tie’s a little askew” – visual cues of discomfort.
• Discussion on the AUDIT test's unfamiliarity and need for honesty:
  • Will Sommer: “I had not [heard of it]… you add up the numbers, you know, how many times has someone been hurt by your drinking or what have you?”
  • Sam Stein jokes about whether it’d be more like a field sobriety test.

3. Deflection and Oppositional Tactics

• [02:07–03:27] Hosts describe Patel’s defensive counterattacks against Van Hollen, such as referencing a $7,000 bar tab (later debunked as paid for with campaign, not taxpayer, funds).

  • Sam: “They obviously do oppo research on the senators prior to hearings… Patel went after Van Hollen by saying, ‘you opened a bar tab for $7,000…’ which was not true.”
  • Van Hollen’s retort: “You got me. I catered a holiday reception for my staff with campaign, not taxpayer dollars. Now, let’s see your receipts.”

  Notable Quote:

  • Will Sommer: “The sort of default attitude when you’re in trouble… you go in front of Congress… you kind of throw out whatever you can.”

4. Patel’s Reported Paranoia and Leak Hunts

• [04:17–04:47] Discussion of media stories reporting Patel’s paranoia, polygraphing of aides, and litigation with The Atlantic.
  • Sam Stein: “He was asked about this during the hearing, and he’s like, ‘we do polygraph tests all the time.’ But it wasn’t like he wasn’t saying, no, I’m not polygraphing my top aides.”
  • Will Sommer: “It’s crazy that he’s suing The Atlantic over this reporting while also running this leak hunt for, like, whoever talked about his lost weekend…”

5. Going Through the Numbers: The Actual AUDIT Test

• [05:00–06:52] Van Hollen publicly releases his AUDIT score (“three,” indicating light drinking). Sam and Will joke about their own drinking habits.
  • Sam Stein: “I’m probably a little bit higher…”
  • Will Sommer: “I don’t drink, so it’s—”
  • Sam: “Zero? Okay. Maybe they should make you FBI director.”

6. Polygraphs and Evasiveness in the FBI

• [07:12–08:28] Another key hearing exchange is played regarding leak investigations and polygraph tests.
  • Senator Van Hollen: “Have you ordered polygraph tests of members of your team to determine how that story came about?”
  • Patel (via Sam): “The FBI conducts polygraph tests all the time.”
  • Van Hollen: “So I’ll take that as a yes…”
• The hosts call Patel’s answer “very evasive, but it’s not that effective.”
  • Will Sommer: “I feel like this tactic… is having diminishing returns.”

7. Why Has Patel Survived as FBI Director?

• [08:28–09:56] Deep dive into why Kash Patel remains in his position despite controversies.
  • Will Sommer: “The answer is the FBI is a really important agency for Donald Trump… so he needs a guy who is totally pliable… totally dependent on Trump for his position… Like, worm mode.”
  • Sam, half-joking: “You don’t think that he could just bend some other fool around his thumb?”
  • Will: “You need… someone who’s really unique in terms of, like, how compromised he is in terms of, like, really needing Trump.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sam Stein [00:30]: “The most explosive stuff was around Kash Patel’s alleged drinking. Although I guess he’s not alleged because we did see him smash beers with, like, the hockey players.”
• Will Sommer [03:27]: “You know, we’re used to people like Kash Patel… when you’re in trouble… you kind of throw out whatever you can.”
• Will Sommer [09:10]: “I’ve described him as, like, going, like, worm mode… A guy who’s just, like, totally [in] mode. Like, a worm, you know, like, kind of leeching off Trump.”
• Sam Stein [06:12]: “Maybe they should make you FBI director.”
• Sam Stein [05:00]: “The irony, of course, is that they said all the reporting is absolutely false and made up, and yet they’re looking for the leaker, so… doesn’t quite compute.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:30] – Context for the hearing; overview of allegations
• [01:11–01:34] – The AUDIT test challenge and body language assessment
• [02:07–03:27] – Patel’s attacks on Van Hollen, campaign vs. taxpayer funds
• [04:17–04:47] – Paranoia and polygraphs in the FBI
• [05:00–06:52] – Hosts and Van Hollen walk through the AUDIT questionnaire
• [07:12–08:28] – Polygraph evasiveness, hearing dynamics
• [08:28–09:56] – Analysis: Patel’s continued role as FBI Director under Trump

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is irreverent yet incisive, balancing humor (particularly about drinking habits and Beltway party gossip) with sharp analysis of political and bureaucratic survival tactics in the Trump-era FBI. The hosts point to a shifting norm in congressional confrontations—deflections and combative posturing are now expected, though perhaps growing less effective. Lastly, the episode offers continued skepticism about whether accountability (or honest AUDIT test-taking) will follow public grilling.

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This summary aims to capture all central themes and noteworthy exchanges, providing a comprehensive guide for those who missed the episode.

Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Hey, everyone, it's me, Sam Stein again with Will Summer. And we're. We're sadly a little late to this, but it was worth doing anyway. We were watching the hearing over a hearing involving ATF and FBI personnel in the Senate. And FBI Director Cash Patel got into it with Senator Chris Van Holland about a host of things, but the most explosive stuff was around Cash Patel's alleged drinking. Although I guess he's not alleged because we did see him smash beers with, like, the hockey players.

[Will Sommer]

Right.

[Sam Stein]

Like, he is handing out bourbon bottles all over the place. So, like, semi alleged drinking, I guess. Anyways, let's play the clip and then we'll get into, like, the back and forth since then.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

Are you willing to take the. The test that it's. It's called the audit test that members of our active duty military and others take to determine whether they have a drinking problem.

[Sam Stein]

I'll take any test you're willing to take.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

I will take it, Doc. Director Pateli. I'll take it. You ready to take it?

[Sam Stein]

Let's go.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

Yes or no?

[Sam Stein]

Let's go side by side. I'll take it side by side.

[Will Sommer]

I love the reveal of Cash because he looks pretty disheveled, to be honest. He's kind of hunched over the top button. Yeah. Top buttons open, ties a little askew. And he said, I'll take any tests you're willing to take.

[Sam Stein]

It is sort of the hoarse voice. Yeah, it does feel a little disheveled. Had you ever heard of the audit test before?

[Will Sommer]

I had not. I mean, I. I've heard of similar tests about, you know, like, you know, how often, you know, does this, you know, does drinking affect your life? And, and. And, you know, in this case, it says, you know, you kind of add up the numbers, you know, how many times has someone been hurt by your drinking or what have you?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. It requires a level of honesty in the answer. So I'm not sure how effective initially I was like, is that like a. Like a field sobriety test is going to make him, like, say the Alphabet backwards while touching his nose or something? That's not it. Anyways, we're going to get to the. Because Van Hollen took the audit test today. We're gonna get to that in a little bit. But this exchange continued. I will just say Cash Patel went back. He accused him of drinking margaritas with Kilmorego Garcia, and then he brought up this weird thing that I, I, He. It's so funny. They obviously do oppo research on the senators prior to doing these hearings because they always have something to throw back at them. In this case, Patel went after Van Ham by saying, you opened a bar tab for $7,000 and spent taxpayer funds on it, which was not true. It turned out it was a campaign event. It was campaign funds, which is why it was in an FTC report. And it was $7,000 because it was, like, 50 people in attendance, and it was a bar that they had as part of the payment. So it was kind of silly. All right, so here's Patel with a picture of the bar. Bar looks kind of nice. According to the disclosure form. It's called lobby bar. I'm eager to check it out. Looks like a fun place. And here's Van Holland responding to him. You. You got me. I catered a holiday reception for my staff with campaign, not taxpayer dollars. Now, let's see your receipts. Release the tab. All right, who got the better of this exchange?

[Will Sommer]

You know, I think Chris Van Hollen did. I mean, you know, we're used to people like Cash Patel. I mean, we've seen from Pam Bondi, like, the. The sort of default attitude when you're in trouble in this administration, you go in front of Congress is you say, you know, well, you had a stock trading deal, or, you know, you just say, you know, the. The Dallas so high. You know, you kind of throw out whatever you can. But I think, you know, Cash, there's clearly some kind of issue here. You know, the. We, you know, famously, we saw him, like, guzzling bruise with the Olympic team, which I'm sure felt amazing in the moment, but it sort of dogged him as time has gone on. So. So, you know, I think, look, that Atlantic story, right, that alleged, you know, he was so incommunicado, they had to get, like, a battering ram to get him one time. So it's, you know, it's clearly something he's sensitive about, and you can tell that he's kind of wiggling and Dodging around it.

[Sam Stein]

And there's been subsequent stories that he's, like, totally paranoid and putting everyone through polygraph tests about it. And I think he was asked about this during the hearing, and he's like, we do polygraph tests all the time. The FBI always does polygamy test. But it wasn't like he wasn't saying, no, I. I'm not polygraphing my top aids. Right.

[Will Sommer]

It's like.

[Sam Stein]

It's like there's a. There's a difference between administering a polygraph test on a criminal and. And on your aids for leaking to the press. And then there was another report that they were looking into the report, or they denied that. So he seems to be paranoid, honestly.

[Will Sommer]

Well, and, you know, as. As has been pointed out, it's crazy that he's suing the Atlantic over this reporting while also running this leak hunt for, like, whoever talked about his lost weekend or whatever. Like, like, okay, who blew the lid on the Negronis or what have you.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, well, the. The irony, of course, is that they said all the reporting is absolutely false and made up, and yet they're looking for the leaker, so. Doesn't quite compute. All right, let's go through the actual audit test. So today, Chris Van Hollen puts out his audit test. Again. Had no idea that this was a thing. Here it is. I'm just going to look at some of the questions, and maybe I'll be upfront about how I would fare on this. Although I don't know if I want to. I don't know if I want to admit this much, although. Well, it's tough.

[Will Sommer]

You know, we just had a bulwark party, so your numbers might be a little inflated.

[Sam Stein]

All right, so, Van hall, this is the Alcohol Use disorders identification test audit. There you go. Self report version. So according to Van Holland, he. How often do you have a drink containing alcohol? He says two to three times a week. Okay, I'm. I'm probably a little bit higher than that. How many drinks containing alcohol do you have on a typical day when you are drinking? He says one or two. Yeah, I'll give myself that. Why not? Well, do you want to chime in on how you fare here or no?

[Will Sommer]

Well, same. For what it's worth. I don't drink, so it's.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, zero. Okay.

[Will Sommer]

So good for you. So if I was FBI director, you

[Sam Stein]

know, maybe they should make you FBI director. All right, how often do you have six or more drinks on one occasion? Van Holland says, never. I'm a never. How often do you well, okay, maybe occasionally less than 1. Less than monthly. Put me down as a 1. How often during the last year have you found that you were not able to stop drinking once you had started? Never. Never. How often during the last year have you failed to do what you normally expected of you? Because drinking. Never. All right, basically, Van Holland doesn't drink all that much. His final score is three. Do you think Patel's gonna do this?

[Will Sommer]

I think he's gonna be like one sweet goose egg, baby. Zero. Or maybe he'll say, you know, one. You know, know a little. A low ABV beverage every. Every month or two.

[Sam Stein]

But we've seen him drink.

[Will Sommer]

Look, the Olympics are a special occasion.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, let's do the other clip from the hearing. Let's get a reaction to that.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

Have you ordered polygraph tests of members of your team to determine how that story came about?

[Sam Stein]

The FBI conducts polygraph tests all the time.

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[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

Have you. Have you ordered polygraph tests for members of your team to determine who was the source of the stories that I'm asking you about?

[Sam Stein]

I don't order any polygraph test. There's an internal inspection review process for any and all leaks, especially of baseless information at the FBI that's been in place for the last 30 years. Those processes are followed by career intelligence and agents on the ground.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

So I'll take that as a yes, since you've said that these were. These. These were unauthorized disclosures.

[Sam Stein]

It's very evasive, but it's not that effective. Yeah.

[Will Sommer]

You know, I was going to say, I feel like this tactic of, like, you know, just acting like the senators are just, like, asking him the dumbest questions he's ever heard, where he's just like, oh, my God, we do polygraphs all the time, dude. Get over it. You know, I think that is having diminishing returns. You know, I think, you know, a year ago, I think Democrats were a little more. They weren't really caught. Like, I feel like they were never, like, totally owned by it. But it's. I think it's just, like. It's obviously more combative than they're used to at these hearings, but in this case, I think they're. They're figuring it out.

[Sam Stein]

How do you think. How has he managed to hold on this long? I feel like people have been pushed aside for less.

[Will Sommer]

I think the answer is pretty simple, Sam. The answer is the FBI is a really important agency for Donald Trump, both in terms of terrorizing his enemies and making sure it doesn't investigate any Republicans or any other Trump friends. And so he needs a guy who is totally pliable, who will essentially, like, is completely dependent on Trump for his position. And so that's why you can't really get, like, a member of Congress or someone to come in. You need a guy who's like, you know, I've described him as, like, going, like, worm mode in the past, like, these things. A guy who's just, like, totally mode. Well, yeah, like. Like a worm, you know, like, he's like, kind of like, leeching off of Trump.

[Sam Stein]

And Cash has gone worm mode. Yeah.

[Will Sommer]

I mean, he's just, like, totally dependent on Trump. And that, you know, for Trump is who you need as FBI director.

[Sam Stein]

You don't think that he could just bend some other fool around his thumb?

[Will Sommer]

I mean, who you're going to get. Is this a Senate confirmed position, I believe?

[Sam Stein]

Yes, absolutely.

[Will Sommer]

You know. Yeah. So you're gonna have trouble. You can't get, like, Laura Loomer, you know, you need. You know, I think.

[Sam Stein]

Don't give him ideas.

[Will Sommer]

I think, you know, Cash is really unique in terms of, like, how compromised he is in terms of, like, really needing Trump.

[Sam Stein]

He is very dependent on Trump, but I feel like, like Devin Nunez, you could get in there, Right. He's not up to much. He left the Trump media enterprise.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah. But, you know, I don't know. He's been out of the public spotlight for a while. You know, he might. He might stand up.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Okay, well, we'll see. I'm eager to see if Cash actually does the audit. Even if he does, I can't imagine he's going to be honest about it. So we'll see. Will, thank you so much, man. I appreciate this. I learned something new about you. I didn't know that you didn't drink.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

This is why you're so good at your job.

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, it's. You know, maybe it would be a good idea to have something, you know, to ease my woes as I journey into this world.

[Sam Stein]

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