Kash Patel's Crazy Election Theory Came From Where?!

Summary

Bulwark Takes: "Kash Patel's Crazy Election Theory Came From Where?!" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: July 5, 2025
Host: Sonny Bunch
Guest: Will Sommers
Podcast: Bulwark Takes by The Bulwark

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Sonny Bunch engages in a deep dive discussion with Will Sommers concerning the resurgence of conspiracy theories alleging that the 2020 U.S. presidential election was stolen. The conversation centers around claims propagated by Kash Patel and explores the origins, credibility, and implications of these theories.

Introduction to the Conspiracy Theory

Sonny Bunch opens the discussion by referencing Will Sommers' latest newsletter and introduces the topic of election fraud, specifically asserting that the 2020 election was stolen and that the FBI now possesses proof of this fraud.

Sonny Bunch [00:00]: "A very important topic today, election fraud. Turns out the 2020 election was stolen. And the FBI has proof of that now."

Will Sommers responds by outlining Kash Patel's claims published in Just the News, a conservative blog supportive of Trumpism. Patel alleges that a 2020 intelligence report revealed China's attempt to steal the election by importing fraudulent American driver’s licenses and harvesting voter data through TikTok.

Will Sommers [00:24]: "We found this intelligence report from 2020 that China tried to steal the election. And then Chris Wray, the then head of the FBI, said they hadn't, didn't have any evidence of election fraud to Congress."

Dissecting the Claims

The discussion progresses to examine the validity of the claims. Will Sommers emphasizes that the declassified report, upon its release, failed to provide concrete evidence supporting the allegations of election fraud.

Will Sommers [01:28]: "...it does not actually prove there was election fraud."

Sonny expresses skepticism, highlighting the improbability of the mechanism described—using fraudulent IDs sourced from China and TikTok data for voter fraud.

Sonny Bunch [02:16]: "Does TikTok require you to give an address to use TikTok? Is that a thing that happens?"

Sommers counters by clarifying that TikTok does not request user addresses, undermining the foundation of the conspiracy theory.

Will Sommers [03:14]: "It does not. And so this is kind of problem number one that comes up is that the FBI agent... they say, you know, one issue, it doesn't really happen with TikTok."

Origins and Spread of the Theory

The conversation delves into the genesis of the conspiracy theory, tracing it back to August 2020, when the FBI received a tip about Chinese efforts to influence the election. This tip was allegedly a mix of misinformation from social media and real-world events, such as the seizure of fake IDs by Border Patrol at Chicago’s airport intended for underage drinking, later misconstrued to suggest electoral interference.

Will Sommers [05:02]: "Border Patrol had seized thousands of fake IDs at Chicago's airport... these IDs were meant for college students... then a few days later becomes on right wing blogs... IDs were meant to sway the election."

Sommers points out the source's questionable credibility, citing previous unfounded claims about China establishing underground bases in Republican states to spread COVID-19, which were also dismissed by the FBI.

Will Sommers [06:44]: "...the source had also relayed information that China had created underground bases in Republican states in the United States to spread the coronavirus. Now, I don't think that's really true."

Current Political Climate and Reactions

Fast forward to 2025, where Republicans, led by figures like Chuck Grassley and Cash Patel, revive these discredited theories amidst ongoing partisan tensions. The episode discusses how these claims have been leveraged to foster distrust in FBI leadership and push for political prosecutions.

Will Sommers [08:13]: "Republicans are really hyped up about it... Heritage foundation has already asked the Justice Department to prosecute him [Chris Wray] for perjury."

Sonny emphasizes the persistence of these unfounded theories and questions their logical inconsistencies, such as why alleged fraudulent voters wouldn't choose states without driver's license requirements.

Sonny Bunch [10:11]: "Why wouldn't they just send the Chinese nationals to a state where they didn't need driver's licenses?"

Potential Implications and Future Developments

Looking ahead, Sommers speculates on the possibility of congressional hearings and further political actions aimed at uncovering or debunking these theories. He draws parallels to past unfounded claims, suggesting a cyclical pattern in political misinformation.

Will Sommers [11:03]: "This is kind of one of these things that can sort of... it kind of goes on in your peripheral vision... how is it a lie? And you can just feel better about it."

Sonny concludes by highlighting the absurdity and frustration surrounding these conspiracy theories, while subtly pointing out the overshadowing presence of other baseless claims, such as COVID-19 underground bases.

Sonny Bunch [12:10]: "...if we can use this to blow the COVID off the whole Covid underground base situation, I think that's the real scandal here."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Sonny encouraging listeners to subscribe to The Bulwark and stay informed through their platforms, emphasizing the importance of shedding light on issues like election fraud and other conspiracy theories.

Sonny Bunch [12:27]: "...that's how we really shine a light on all of these dangerous issues like Covid bases and underground election farming, theft. That's what we do here."

Key Takeaways:

1. Origin of the Theory: The conspiracy theory about the 2020 election being stolen via Chinese interference originated from a mix of misinformation on social media and isolated real-world incidents, such as the seizure of fake IDs.

2. Credibility Issues: The claims lack substantive evidence, as revealed when the purported intelligence report failed to substantiate allegations of widespread election fraud.

3. Political Exploitation: Despite debunking, the theory has been revived by certain Republican figures, aiming to undermine trust in FBI leadership and sow doubt about the election's legitimacy.

4. Logical Inconsistencies: The mechanics of the alleged fraud, such as the use of driver’s licenses and TikTok data, present significant logistical challenges that undermine the plausibility of the theory.

5. Ongoing Misinformation: The persistence of such theories highlights the challenges in combating political misinformation and the cyclical nature of unfounded claims in the political landscape.

This Bulwark Takes episode effectively dissects the flawed foundations of Kash Patel's election theft theory, providing listeners with a critical analysis of its origins, propagation, and the broader implications for political discourse and trust in governmental institutions.

Transcript

[Sonny Bunch]

Welcome back to False Flag here at the Bulwark YouTube channel. I, of course, am Sonny Bunch. I'm here talking about Wil Sommers latest newsletter with him. Will, thank you for getting on with me to talk. A very important topic today, election fraud. Turns out the 2020 election was stolen. And the FBI has proof of that now. It's amazing what is going on here.

[Will Sommers]

Yeah, this is an interesting one. So a few weeks ago, Kash Patel came out in Just the News, which people may is sort of a conservative blog that's very friendly to Trumpism. And he said, you know, we found this intelligence report from 2020 that China tried to steal the election. And then Chris Wray, the then head of the FBI, he said they hadn't, didn't have any evidence of election fraud to Congress. And so, you know, people were saying maybe Chris Wray should be prosecuted for perjury. And you know, additionally, here's the big proof and Cash Patel said, I declassified it and I gave it to Chuck Grassley, the senator. And I thought, why not just put it out there? You know, why do we have to do this? Kind of like hide the ball. But Republicans went crazy over it. Trump started talking about it. Oh, Democrats took over the government in collusion with China, all this stuff. And so I was bugging people. I wanted this report. It was supposed to come out. When do we get to see the report? Everyone who did have access to the report was saying it was a big deal. And then it finally came out on Tuesday. And would you believe it, it does not actually prove there was election fraud.

[Sonny Bunch]

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm shocked to learn this. So when, you know, there, there are a lot of different conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. I've heard, you know, from, you know, the fake dossiers to, to whatever else, you know, drop boxes full of ballots that are, you know, were left all around cities and, you know, but this was a new one to me. This was, this was a new one to me. I was, I was a little bit, I was kind of, I was amused the, the background here, because I had yet to see a fake ID. Fake IDs from China being used in battleground states to, to drive. What is the story here? What is the actual conspiracy?

[Will Sommers]

Yeah, so here's the claim that was made, and I should say this all started in August 2020. The FBI got a tip from a new newish source, someone they had dealt with in the past in the Albany FBI office, which, you know, we all think of as the center for counterint and so they got this tip and they were kind of unclear about it. And here's what the tip was. So it was that the Chinese government was importing tens of thousands of fraudulent American driver's licenses so that then Chinese citizens in the United States could vote illegally in the election, the election for Joe Biden. And also that they had gotten. They were essentially stealing Americans identities with information and addresses they had gained from TikTok. And so that is. Is the claim.

[Sonny Bunch]

I can think of a couple of problems with this just off the bat. One of them. Does TikTok require you to give an address to use TikTok? Is that a thing that happens?

[Will Sommers]

It does not. And so this is kind of problem number one that comes up is that the FBI agent, even sort of the side that at least takes this somewhat credibly, they say, you know, one issue, it doesn't really happen with TikTok. They don't ask you for your address. Nevertheless, this tip gets packaged up as a, as an intelligence report that is blasted out across the government. Like every intel agency, the White House situation room, every military branch gets this report. And I'm not an expert in these reports, but based on the reaction, my sense is typically you need a bit more proof than this to blast everyone with this. And so, you know, to say that China's stealing the election or trying to steal the election. So this creates a huge, huge drama within the government and people say, oh my God, we need more information. And then, you know, do we trust this guy? Can you re. Interview him? And the source is kind of flaky, all this stuff. Eventually the report gets withdrawn because they say we can't really trust what you're saying here, so we have to withdraw it until we can learn more. And that is what Republicans have really seized on here in 2025 as the evidence that, you know, this was like an FBI cover up. At one point the FBI agent said, well, you know, Chris Wray's out here saying there's no election interference if we don't. If we think otherwise, we need more proof. And so they're saying, you know, this was all a scheme to protect Chris Redd.

[Sonny Bunch]

So the origins of this, this, this conspiracy theory are, are kind of interesting actually. It seems to have been an amalgamation of like kind of Facebook boomer bait crossed with, you know, an actual, you know, news story about, you know, IDs that were impounded, et cetera. What was the, what was the impetus of all this? What was the, like, origin of this whole story?

[Will Sommers]

Yeah, so there are a lot of redactions. So it's hard to know exactly for sure what's going on here. But it would seem as though what happened was. And this is in the real world, this is not made up, that earlier that August 2020, Border Patrol had seized thousands of fake IDs at Chicago's airport. Now, these are presumably meant for college students who want to drink underage. And this was a big news story because it was. So IDs this then a few days later becomes on right wing blogs and eventually on Facebook. Well, these IDs were meant to sway the election. They sent from China to help Joe Biden. So that's where seemingly the root of this idea comes from. Then a few weeks later, the source reports it to the FBI and kind of mixes in some TikTok stuff. Even initially, the FBI was like, you know, I think this guy probably just got it from Facebook or from something he saw online. And he's kind of blending it. He's. Maybe he has good motives here, but he's not really getting this in a fresh way. And so that's. That's seemingly where it originated. And, you know, the other issue with this source's credibility, I love, you know, when these election fraud things really hinge on a person because they often have just truly insane other beliefs. In this case, the source had also relayed information that China had created underground bases in Republican states in the United States to spread the coronavirus. Now, I don't think that's really true. And the FBI seemed to agree. And so they said, oh, holy moly, look at this driver's license thing. But I don't know about this Covid stuff, and I don't know what that might say about his overall credibility.

[Sonny Bunch]

Now, Will, as we know from our discussions previously about your newsletters, there are a series of underground bases that cost tens of trillions of dollars to build. And I don't see any reason why there couldn't be a Chinese Covid factory hidden amongst this tunnel system. Why are you dismissing this out of hand?

[Will Sommers]

Yes, as we've discussed before, you know, the underground base trope keeps recurring and, you know, certainly maybe he could link up with the source, could link up with Tucker Carlson, a big underground base proponent, to take it from there. But, you know, the FBI was not convinced. And so, at least internally, you know, it was treated as kind of an embarrassment. I think the Albany people were kind of trying to shape it up to so they could send it back out. Every. All these FBI brass people were like, you know, Saying, essentially, you screwed up. Like, you know, we don't want to hear from you until you can really prove this. And then it went away, and no one thought about it for five years until Republicans and Chuck Grassley and Cash Patel dug it up. And now they're, they're on the war path. Oh, this is, this is truly shocking evidence. But for me, you know, on one hand, I don't think they even believe that because we're doing this deal, all these trying to do trade deals with China, everything else. And Trump ostensibly believes China stole the election from him. And then, you know, we know TikTok is a huge part of this, but Trump is breaking the law to keep TikTok operating. So it's, it's always just interesting, I guess, to get into the guts of these documents and see what they really say.

[Sonny Bunch]

Yeah, I want to hit on that TikTok point for a minute here, because I like, they're, we could shut TikTok down today if we wanted to. The law has been passed. The Chinese government has not divested itself or the Chinese company that is owned in part by the CCP has not divested itself from TikTok. We could stop this source of misinformation and I guess, election fraud from being a thorn in our side at this moment. And yet it continues to operate, which, again, as you say, just suggests that there's not a real serious concern there after all.

[Will Sommers]

Yeah, I mean, that Donald Trump is the guy who is making sure that it can continue to operate. And then on the other hand, he's saying, you know, that, you know, TikTok was part of this scheme to take over the government to steal the election for the Democrats. I mean, Republicans have really been going wild over this one. You know, Michael Flynn is saying it's time to indict all these FBI leaders. And, you know, supposedly it's having a real effect. Ken Delaney and at NBC reported that, you know, at least one FBI has been put on leave for the supposed crime of not taking this wacky conspiracy theory, you know, treating it with enough gravitas at the time.

[Sonny Bunch]

I, yeah, this, this is, this whole story is so ridiculous and frustrating, but it is, it is kind of indicative of where the president and his priorities kind of still sit. I mean, I, I, it is, it is shocking to me that even now, five years later, they are still going at this idea that there was massive amounts of voter fraud that turned the election, the election was stolen from Donald Trump, that, you know, 10,000 Chinese nationals using voter ID, and here's here's a secondary question here. Why wouldn't they just. Why wouldn't they just send the Chinese nationals to a state where they didn't need driver's licenses? This isn't. Isn't this the argument about voter fraud everywhere?

[Will Sommers]

Well, that is, That's a, that's also a good point. I mean, I was wondering about that. This idea that, you know, I mean, perhaps China hasn't done enough research on their election fraud schemes or what have you. You know, it's interesting. This idea supposedly was relayed to the source who spoke to the FBI from someone in China, who then spoke to these government officials in China. This kind of third hand route. This person in the middle who's in China is supposedly a supporter of Shanghai Shek's government, you know, long ago. So, you know, I think there's a lot of questions, motivations, you know, exactly what was afoot here.

[Sonny Bunch]

Yeah, well, so where, where, where does this go from here? I mean, are we going to have hearings about the, the stolen IDs, are we going to have the. Are we going to have, you know, congressional discussions about this? What's. What, what are next steps here?

[Will Sommers]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's very possible that there will be hearings. I mean, Republicans are really hyped up about it. I mean, Chuck Grassley has, has really kind of thrown his weight behind it. I mean, they're saying that you. A major scandal and, you know, the. Chris Reagan covered it all up and perjured himself. The Heritage foundation has already asked the Justice Department to prosecute him for perjury. So, you know, I. This is kind of one of these things that can sort of, if you're not deeply in this world, and even for me, I mean, I. It kind of goes on in your peripheral vision and you think, I don't know, maybe Chris Ray did do that. Or like another example being when they said Ilhan Omar married her brother. And sometimes, you know, I think there's a value in just, you know, getting dirty and being like, all right, I know this is a lie, but how. How is it a lie? And you can just feel better about it.

[Sonny Bunch]

Yeah, well, you know, I'm glad that you're on top of this. I am excited to see what they dig up here. And frankly, if we can use this to blow the COVID off the whole Covid underground base situation, I think that's the real scandal here. You know, elections come and go, but underground Covid bases, those are forever.

[Will Sommers]

Well, you know, Sonny, the one person who did, I mean, I should say all the proponents of this report were not noting the whole Covid based thing except conspiracy theory blog that said holy moly, you know, forget, forget about the election. The FBI knew about the COVID bases so, you know, at least someone was excited about it.

[Sonny Bunch]

Holy moly indeed. All right, well, thank you for being, thank you for filling us in on all this. And everyone of course should be subscribed to the Bulwark. Go to the bulwark.com sign up. You got to read False flag. It comes out a couple times a week right in your inbox. It's great. It's one of the best, one of the best things we do here. And make sure you subscribe to this channel and hit that like button and share it around with your friends because that's how we really shine a light on all of these dangerous issues like Covid bases and underground election farming, theft. That's what we do here.