Bulwark Takes: "Kimmel Suspension Triggered MAJOR Disney+ Exodus"
Host: Sonny Bunch (A), Culture Editor at The Bulwark
Guest: Julia Alexander (B), Media Correspondent at Puck and streaming industry analyst
Date: October 1, 2025
Overview
This episode dives into the striking aftermath of Jimmy Kimmel's suspension from Disney and Hulu, and how it sparked a massive surge in subscription cancellations. Sonny Bunch and streaming expert Julia Alexander break down fresh cancellation data, compare past media controversies, and explore what these numbers mean for the future of streaming, broadcast TV, and direct action by subscribers.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Kimmel Suspension Fallout
- Context: After Jimmy Kimmel was suspended, both Disney+ and Hulu saw an unprecedented spike in subscriber cancellations.
- Magnitude of Churn:
- In the five days following Kimmel's suspension, cancellation rates increased sixfold compared to the previous 30 days (01:10).
- This spike was greater than previous notable controversies, such as:
- Netflix's "Cuties" backlash in 2020
- Reed Hastings' $7 million political donation in 2024
Quote:
"We saw that cancellations...increased by around six times respectively, what was being seen in 30 days prior. That is higher than what we saw happen with Netflix in 2020 around the 'Cuties' controversy...and higher than...when Reed Hastings...donated $7 million to Kamala Harris’s super PAC."
—Julia Alexander (01:10)
2. Comparing to Previous Controversies
- Cuties was a "hyper online" controversy, limited mainly to niche internet circles.
- Reed Hastings’ donation was less likely to drive instant action, despite high emotion.
- The Kimmel event felt like broad, cross-partisan outrage with a higher willingness to act.
Quote:
"Jimmy Kimmel...hits a few really important quadrants. It’s seen as an attack on free speech...an attack on a very beloved comedian. You had people on the left and the right...saying this is really not great."
—Julia Alexander (04:19)
3. Churn Rate, Subscriber Loss, and Immediate Impact
- Churn rate is increasingly the key metric for streaming platforms (05:22).
- Mass cancellation is a rare and impactful direct action, unlike other recent controversies (e.g., 60 Minutes settlement).
- Concrete, cancel-your-subscription protest was uniquely achievable here.
Quote:
"This is like literally the only movement a lot of people can make. Very few people...were canceling their Disney World vacation...But this is a thing you can do that will instantly show displeasure and hit Bob Iger where he is paying attention."
—Sonny Bunch (06:20)
- This movement had real financial effect and will be visible in Disney’s quarterly reports.
4. The Distinction Between Kimmel, News, and Streamer Versatility
- News controversies (like 60 Minutes) are often met with skepticism, but don’t drive mass cancellations—viewers are less emotionally invested in news personalities versus beloved entertainers (07:00).
- The Kimmel situation, conversely, triggered action across the political spectrum.
Quote:
"With a comedian...who is a entertainer who is invited onto our screens every night...for so many Americans that seemed to cross the line."
—Julia Alexander (08:02)
5. Disney’s Streaming Business Landscape
- Disney+ and Hulu have slowed in both domestic and international growth.
- Profit margins are thin compared to the peak of the cable era (09:54).
- Disney is pivoting from subscriber growth to engagement and revenue per user. But the inability to recover lost customers will send a negative message to analysts and shareholders.
Quote:
"Any kind of inability to bring back the customers they lost in that domestic market really would go to show the declining perceived value that people have in Disney and Hulu..."
—Julia Alexander (11:07)
6. The Role of Live Sports in Retention
- Sports, particularly during football season, are the most powerful anchor for subscriber retention.
- ESPN Unlimited (Disney’s new offering) brought in nearly 1 million subscribers in 10 days, with bundling aiding Hulu/Disney+ numbers (13:49).
Quote:
"This was the best time for this to happen. Now, no one at Disney is saying this is the best time for this to happen...But I’m certain that they are so relieved internally that they had this leading into a very high net ad season."
—Julia Alexander (15:15)
7. Unintended Consequences: The Death of Late Night on Broadcast?
- Could this controversy push companies to simply pull risky or controversial programming—like late night—from broadcast and go all-in on streaming?
- Analyst speculation that NBC or others might move late-night entirely to their streaming platforms, avoiding FCC scrutiny (16:52).
Quote:
"If your [sic] NBC is now the time for you to put SNL and Seth Meyers and Jimmy Fallon...on Peacock, do you just take them off NBC entirely? Because Brendan Carr and the FCC do not have jurisdiction over streaming in the same way..."
—Julia Alexander (16:55)
- But Julia cautions:
- These shows have not proven to be subscription drivers for streaming.
- The reason for a move should not be "fear of the FCC" or free speech chill, but genuine business strategy.
Quote:
"The decision, even if it’s a business one, should never come on the heels or because of concern around freedom of speech in a political situation...It should come from a fact that no one’s watching broadcast anymore..."
—Julia Alexander (18:22)
8. The Limits of Streaming and Broadcast
- Direct consumer cancellation (churn) is a much sharper tool than declining Nielsen ratings.
- Broadcast still has broader reach than streaming, despite streaming’s rapid ascent.
Quote:
"A million people canceling, 2 million people canceling. That worries me. For different reasons."
—Sonny Bunch (20:36)
- For now, shows like Kimmel’s aren’t likely to be streaming exclusives—late-night traditional formats do not drive subscriptions, even if they do get headlines (22:54).
Key Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the power and scale of the backlash:
"There was a Disney+ actress who was like, I would cancel my Disney+ subscription. It felt like there was a real movement for concrete action."
— Sonny Bunch (05:57) -
On strategic timing:
"Thank God this is happening during football season for ABC, Disney, ESPN, Hulu."
— Sonny Bunch (13:02) -
On sports as retention glue:
"People will give up Bluey for a month, but will they give up Monday Night Football? I don’t know."
— Sonny Bunch (13:18) -
On the existential threat to late night:
"The late night format is no longer working on broadcast television and probably would not convince a lot of people to sign up for a streaming service...happens to interplay at this moment when the politics around it are very, again, disheartening."
— Julia Alexander (17:28) -
On underlying business and free speech issues:
"Disney will be fine. Kimmel will be fine. They’ll probably bring back a decent portion of those subscribers. Kimmel’s audience will go back to the norms in a couple of weeks. But the next time that a government body...comes for some aspect of these businesses...this administration is not necessarily going to stop just because they get something out of a current deal..."
— Julia Alexander (19:12)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 00:45 – Introduction to the Kimmel suspension and Disney/Hulu exodus
- 01:10 – Data explanation: Sixfold increase in cancellations, comparison to past controversies
- 03:29 – How this differs from Netflix’s "Cuties" and Reed Hastings donations
- 05:57 – Why this event drove real, large-scale cancellations
- 09:54 – Disney’s shifting streaming business model and implications of lost subscribers
- 13:02 – The impact of sports and ESPN Unlimited as a retention tool
- 16:52 – Speculating on the future for late night shows and platform strategies
- 18:22 – Restrictions and dangers of making business decisions out of political pressure
- 20:36 – The sharper edge of direct-to-consumer cancellations vs. broadcast ratings
- 22:54 – Why streaming exclusivity for late night is unlikely
Conclusion
Bunch and Alexander convincingly argue that the Kimmel incident wasn’t just a "Twitter moment," but a real-world shock to Disney’s streaming ecosystem—one born of unusual cross-aisle outrage at what was perceived as a free-speech issue. The data shows that streaming viewers, unlike traditional TV watchers, can act rapidly and en masse by canceling subscriptions—giving fans and foes alike a new financial lever for protest. At the same time, the episode unpacks why late-night TV may soon retreat from the airwaves not solely due to politics, but because changing business realities make streaming more attractive—if less reliably profitable. As these tensions between culture, business, and politics tighten, companies like Disney must tread carefully to avoid repeating this "mess of their own making."