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- [00:00]
Tim Miller
Hey, guys, it's Tim Miller from the Bullork here with my buddy Andrew Egger, who writes our Morning Shots newsletter. Subscribe to this YouTube feed and go to TheBullork.com to get his newsletter. He wrote this morning about the breaking news that Donald Trump has decreed King Trump has decreed that Joe Biden's preemptive pardons for the January 6th committee members are all caps, void, vacant and of no further force or effect because they were apparently signed with an auto pen. I guess the theory of the case here is that Joe Biden was asleep and that some other person signed the auto pen. I think that there's some problems with that theory. But, Andrew, what can you tell us? Spell we know right now.
- [00:43]
Andrew Egger
Yeah. So you can go really macro or really micro on this. The bottom line, what you just said is that Donald Trump is saying Joe Biden tried to pardon a lot of my political enemies, which I didn't like very much because I really wanted to try them with crimes. I think they all committed treason and things like that, for investigating my attempt to steal the 2020 election. And then particularly for January 6th. So what, what Biden is saying or what Trump is now saying is this post is. He posted it on Truth Social in the wee hours this morning about 12:35. And it really is kind of an amazing post because it's like six conspiracy theories all rolled up into one. He's. He's saying one. Biden appears not to have signed these things physically himself. That is possibly true, by the way. We can talk a little bit more about that if you want, but presidents do sometimes use what's called an auto pen to sign various things that come across their desk.
- [01:30]
Tim Miller
Presidential. Did you know this about me, Andrew, that I was the auto pen signer for the governor of Colorado in the year 2001 when you were still in diapers.
- [01:38]
Andrew Egger
Is that true?
- [01:39]
Tim Miller
Oh, yeah. Back then we had a thing where it was like a machine. It's gotten a lot fancier, but it's this massive machine. You put your foot on the pedal like it's like a grand piano. And then the little pen would come out and go. And yeah, I was, I mean, I wasn't the Auto Penn center for like official pardons, but you know, for low.
- [01:57]
Andrew Egger
Level memorabilia and stuff.
- [01:59]
Tim Miller
Yeah, exactly.
- [02:00]
Andrew Egger
Anyway, yeah, right, right. And that's, that's constantly done by, by, you know, the president's office pumps out tons of that stuff for like, people who like, collect presidential signatures and things like that, whatever. But. But it is also occasionally done for like high level official business. I mean, Presidents, President Obiden and President, President Obama and President Biden thought that.
- [02:18]
Tim Miller
Was an intentional joke at first.
- [02:20]
Andrew Egger
It's early on. Our last two Democratic presidents have both signed, signed not just, you know, orders and pardons and things like that, but, but laws with, with an auto signature. And in fact, under George W. Bush, he, he sought from the Justice Department some guidance about whether that was legal. And the Justice Department in 2005 said, yes, the president can designate an aide to, to sign things for him. And that essentially has the same effect as law. So thus far with the auto pen, that's kind of the small thing here. That's the, that's the justification. Right. The big thing is that Donald Trump, one, falsely accuses the January 6th Committee of having committed crimes. Two, falsely accuses Joe Biden as, and the people around Joe Biden of pushing these things out without his knowledge, without him even knowing that it was happening. You know, days after he gave, he physically gave Liz Cheney and Benny Thompson the Presidential Medal of Freedom, or I forget if that was the exact medal. Some very high. I think it was not that one. He gave them a very high presidential honor for their work on that committee. And then three, I mean, he comes around to like the sort of turducken of conspiracy theories in this post is that he says the fact is they, meaning the pardoned people, were probably responsible for the documents that were signed on their behalf without the knowledge or consent of the worst president in the history of our country, crooked Joe Biden. So what Trump is doing is he's accusing, you know, Liz Cheney, Benny Thompson, these people of somehow hatching and carrying out this scheme to forge their own pardon documents and get them in front of the President, all while he is still the president behind his back. I mean, it's this, it's this transparently stupid, transparently ludicrous allegation. And it would be really funny if the upshot of it were not. Donald Trump wants to obliterate his predecessor's pardon powers in order to go after his political enemies today.
- [04:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah, he gave Liz Cheney and many times the Presidential Citizens Medal. Yeah, I mean, the conceit here is preposterous. I guess we can just to put a finer point on that and then we can dispense with it. This was obviously a massive back and forth throughout the transition whether Joe Biden was going to pardon these people. And this is not like some random drug crime person like at the bottom of the stack of pardons. You know, not that I'm Accusing Joe Biden of absentmindedly pardoning people. But you. Who knows, you can at least listen to that argument. Like, this was very well debated. People made personal pleas to the President on both sides of this, actually, that. I've heard some of these. The pardonees did not want to be pardoned and told the president as much. And so the then president. So, like, I. It's just ridiculous, right? Like, to say that, oh, this is a weekend of Bernie's situation and, like, Neera Tanden was doing this by herself, right? Without, like, without. Without him knowing. It's ridiculous and it is. The conceit, though, is necessary for this fascistic purpose, right, that he wants to go after his political foes. I mean, there's a new book Alex Eisenstadt has out about the transition, and he's writing that Trump said, like, sarcastically to aides, listen, everybody, there will be no retribution. There will be no revenge. Wink, wink. I mean, like, he's not exactly being subtle about this. And the people at the top of his revenge list are the people that went after him over January 6th. And this is essentially, you know, his fig leaf for being able to do that.
- [05:46]
Andrew Egger
This is one of those Trump stories, right? I mean, these. These come around all the time where. Where Trump is like, actually, I get to do whatever I want today. And the reason is because of the Foreign enemies Act of 1798 or this weird loophole about the auto pen where, like, where everybody kind of has to scramble and be like, oh, what is the deal with this? I mean, like. Like this. The auto pen has not been a major locus of cont. Because nobody's tried to pull this shit off before, right, that Trump's trying to do today. So we were kind of looking into some of this stuff this morning, writing the newsletter, and the question was kind of like, well, has Trump used the auto pen much? Like. Like, is this. Is this a thing that he occasionally has done? Which. Which really, the answer seems to be no.
- [06:24]
Tim Miller
He.
- [06:24]
Andrew Egger
He very rarely availed himself of that during his first term. And it's kind of funny because, like, when you think about it, has there ever been, like, a human being who likes signing his own name more than Donald Trump? I mean, like, he lives to write that. That big sharpie signature down on any pie in front of him. It's like, the idea that. I feel like the idea of using an auto pen that any president would is kind of, like, outrageous and kind of grotesque to him in particular. The other thing, though, I mean, like, it is interesting. I don't know what's going to happen next because, because, because the. It does seem like there's one guy who's pretty well equipped to offer some insight into the mind of Joe Biden during those. During those pardon moments in his last days of his presidency. And that would be Joe Biden. Right? I mean, like, are we going to see him come to camera today or this week or something and be like, hey, remember those pardons I issued? Those were me. I did those. Those were not. Those were not, you know, like, yeah, near a tandem going behind my back or something like that. I wanted those people pardoned, and that's why I pardoned them. I mean, like, you don't usually see stuff like that from, from former presidents. They kind of tend to try to fade. 1. One formerly former president accepted. They usually try to kind of fade back and be apolitical and just kind of tend to their legacies and stuff. But I mean, it really kind of seems like we should see Joe Biden speak to this because this is a really, really aggressive, like, insanely, insanely destructive move, and it's something he has some knowledge of.
- [07:51]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And unfortunately, we'd have to actually see him. Like, I don't think sending a tweet would really solve this because then people would be like, the person that did the auto pen also did the tweet, you know?
- [08:00]
Andrew Egger
Right. It was the identical. And look, not to totally absolve Joe Biden because if he had not been such a, like, rictus corpse of a person that they tried to cover up for that stuff for a long time, like, I feel like this stuff would not land as. As effectively as it does. But. But also, we're way past that.
- [08:19]
Tim Miller
I mean, yeah, I mean, who cares? They would just make up something else. I mean, I. Look, there's nobody with less love for the way that President Biden acted in 2024 than me. But, like, come on, this is ridiculous. Like, they would, you know, prop up some other fucking excuse by which they could do this, you know, some other reason why they didn't have to follow. Follow the law. I mean, that is your whole point. Like this, like, this is not the only example of this that we've seen.
- [08:42]
Andrew Egger
Right.
- [08:42]
Tim Miller
Like, there are all these ludicrous, you know, rationales that they provide for doing whatever Donald Trump wants. And, you know, Kim Whaley is a legal analyst for us, said this this morning, which I think is pretty. Is right. Like, no matter even if this is ridiculous on its face and it's going to get dismissed in any court like, the process is the punishment kind of for Trump. And I'm sure Trump would love to see these people go to jail, but they didn't do any crimes. So that's going to pretty challenging for him unless he. Unless he wants to just become full Putin, which, you know, I think is probably not on the. On the list for 2025, but TBD down the line. But the, you know, the point that Whaley makes is that, you know, this. This will now lead to an expensive legal battle and, like, the day. And that there will be damage already done to these folks, you know, particular. I mean, the ones that are in Congress, probably less so, but, like, particularly to the ones that are, you know, in private life and that were, like, just kind of doing their jobs.
- [09:42]
Andrew Egger
One thing that. That. That kind of tripped my mind this morning is it really made me think back to, like, all the people who, especially in Trump's first term, used to be like, oh, you know, you people who want to say he's like, a neophyte fascist or something like that. It's like a guy with these authoritarian aspirations. Like, that's so silly. Like, he's such a silly man. He's so goofy. He's so unserious, all of that stuff. And, like, he is a silly man. He is goofy and unserious. His post last night was goofy and unserious. Like, like, it was like performance art, the way he was, like, attaching, like, bolting nine different conspiracy theories together to, like, make this argument and stuff like that. It was kind of funny, but, like, a goofy, unserious guy who is, like, willing to just wield every arm of the state he can, like, get his little fingers on with no pushback from anybody. Like, that's an authoritarian, and you can do a lot of damage. Despite being that way to these people, to. To. To anybody, to all the different people he's going after right now. So, yeah, it's just. It's yet another front in the war, and it's. It's a really serious thing.
- [10:42]
Tim Miller
Little fingers, the short finger. Authoritarian. All right, Benny Thompson is out with a statement saying he's not afraid of Trump's latest midnight rant and has no basis in reality. So good on Benny Thompson. We'll keep monitoring this. Everybody go go. Subscribe to the Morning Shots newsletter with Andrew Iger and Bill Kristol. I'll be back with more on this with Bill later today. Thanks, Andrew.
- [11:03]
Andrew Egger
Thanks, Tim.