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- [00:00]
A
Hey, guys. Tim Miller from the Bulwark here I am back with our unofficial Ukraine correspondent, Kalyn Robertson, who is coming at us from the center of Kyiv after a just what I understand to be just a brutal weekend of attacks and an offensive from Russia that's kind of unlike what we've seen throughout the whole war. But you tell me, man, you're the one that's there. And good to see you.
- [00:25]
B
Yeah, it's nice to see you too. I mean, it's been pretty dramatic here in the last few days. I just went to Brussels last week to confront one of Europe's biggest Russian propagandists. His name is Phidias. And then he got millions of views. And it was quite weird getting back, getting back to Kyiv because you go from sort of the safety and the sort of niceness of Brussels, then you get on the train to Warsaw and then come here and looking out the window, it looked like Apocalypse now or something. It was like one of the most dramatic nights that I've ever seen in Ukraine. And it's been happening every single night since. It's just been constant because Russia are amping up their efforts. They've been hitting this city as well as other cities with everything that they have. And the air defense systems are being depleted right now. Again, they're not being replenished. The Patriot systems are not being replenished. So this city is resorting to old school tracers and old school sort of World War II type fire to take out the stuff in the sky. So it looks super dramatic, but it's also just crazy because this is, again, this is the capital of the largest country in Europe and it is being absolutely demolished every single night with these drones and these missiles. And Ukraine have started firing back with a lot of their homemade stuff, right? They started doing that because they weren't given permission to hit the places where missiles are being launched from in Russia, these long range missiles, and that's, that's been pretty successful. But the difference is Ukraine is putting these things into strategic military sites. And Russia, from what I've seen in the last three days, have been putting their missiles into residential buildings. Children have been dying around here. And it looks like, it looks like World War II every single night. I exhausted. Actually. Even earplugs don't really stop the pressure waves shaking your windows and waking up all night. This is absolutely constant and it's just designed to install fear and terror every single day for the people in the city to reduce morale as well. So people wake up in the morning and they're too tired to go to work, and the city doesn't want the war to continue. And so it's a psychological terror as well. And it's so disgraceful. But it's getting worse. And I think this is just the beginning of how bad it's going to get.
- [02:27]
A
I've been listening and people should follow you on your various social medias. We'll put some links in the notes here. But I was listening to, or watching, I guess it's listening because it's night, but to the audio of what has been happening in the bombardment. And I guess you mentioned that, you know, it's been hitting residential buildings, etc, but just. Can you give us any details or specifics of, like, what you're, what you're seeing as far as what Russia's been targeting?
- [03:04]
B
Well, at night I can. I live on a very high floor. I won't say exactly which floor because I don't want the Russians to know where I live. But you can see where things are landing and where things are going. And indiscriminately, drones and missiles bought by Iran and imported from North Korea are hitting all the buildings around here. And it's absolutely appalling. I mean, we had last year missiles and drones hit children's hospitals, maternity wards. This is what Russia's tactic has been for a long time. The idea that turning and turning a city into a place that nowhere is safe anymore is just part and parcel of the Soviet mentality. But it's been happening constantly and it's frightening. And I used to feel in Kyiv under the blanket of air defense, when I used to live in Odessa. We never had this. When I used to live in different cities, there wasn't that kind of feeling of security. And that's been removed from Kyiv now. And it feels vulnerable and it is. So it's, it's pretty appalling. This is what Russia have been doing for a while and now it's just amping up because they can get away with it. They know that the US have basically lost interest in helping with these ceasefire talks, that the United States kind of under, under Trump are basically in a position now where they've openly said, if things don't get resolved as we want them as quickly as possible, then we're just going to pull out. Putin is watching that and he's saying, okay, cool, the US has lost interest, so we can do whatever we want. And that is so depressing. So depressing to see.
- [04:27]
A
Yeah, I was discussing this yesterday on the pod with Bill Kristol. And just there's a story out about how Zelenskyy has been essentially saying that we'll pay. And I assume Europe would be helping, you know, for some of these air defenses that are made here in America. And even, like, it's still being blocked. Right. So it's like, not even that, that the US Is now not only just not providing aid, but it's kind of blocking access to the types of systems that would help defend a city like Kiev.
- [05:02]
B
Yeah. I mean, this country isn't asking the US for missiles to hit Russia. They're asking for things to keep people alive, to keep people safe. It's air defense, and they're offering cash for it. And the whole point and the whole premise of Trump's campaign against Ukraine was it's costing us too much money. It's too expensive. We can't afford it. Well, this country has just offered billions to the US to buy this stuff, to also help prop up the US Military industrial complex. Right. This is something that a lot of Trump voters like, and he turned it down. Which also shows that this isn't about money. This isn't about cash or finances. It's about ideology, and it's about siding with Russia, because, honestly, Trump genuinely thinks that Putin's on his side. He thinks that he's his friend. You know, if you listen to Steve Witkoff in his interview with Tucker Carlson, he said that Vladimir Putin commissioned this beautiful painting of Donald Trump, and he was moved to tears when he saw it, and he couldn't believe how beautiful it was. Right. This is the kind of thing that we're dealing with, and this is what Trump believes. And it's an ideological thing now. And that's why Trump isn't that interested in helping Ukraine. And I don't think he will be. I mean, now we've heard that he's a bit more exhausted with Putin. He's a bit annoyed that he's not going along with things. He's annoyed that he didn't show up in Istanbul because he was too scared. But I still think that he. He admires him, and he thinks that he's on his side, and it's going to take a long time to reverse that.
- [06:15]
A
You know, even in the last statement there, where he says that something's changed in Putin or whatever, he also attacks Zelensky and tells him to stop opening his mouth. I know that you may were at a press conference recently with Zelensky. What is the mindset of kind of the political establishment there now, as they're dealing with this escalating war and whatever you want to call it, the lunacy from our president here in America.
- [06:40]
B
Well, Zelensky's been very, very patient, more patient than most people I know. And he always plays a very, very, very good diplomatic line. Right. And today I was in the palace and I was sitting a few feet away from him and I asked him when he thinks Western leaders will stop buying into Putin's fake peace talks. And he said, well, every single time Putin doesn't turn up to these talks, every single time Putin promises a ceasefire and puts weapons and missiles into cities like this, hopefully the US Will slowly wake up. That's basically what he replied to me. And I think he believes that as well, that in the long game, hopefully Trump will wake up to that. But it's a long road ahead and he's, yeah, he's doing as much diplomacy as absolutely possible. But I mean, it's still pretty depressing.
- [07:25]
A
What about the people around him? Is the tone changing at all? I want to ask about regular people next, but what about kind of the decision makers? Is their mindset changing as kind of developments on the ground are changing?
- [07:38]
B
Having spent time here talking to people in the political establishment, the government here and the palace today, the feeling is that Ukraine is basically going to sort this stuff alone, right? They're building their own drones, their own units, their own missiles, their own long range range stuff to fight this war alone. And this started when Congress blocked aid back in 2023. Anyway, that's, that's sort of what started the, the process of this country building their own stuff and realizing that they're on their own. Actually started under Biden and now it's got much worse under Trump. But there's a sort of confidence as well that you can feel the politicians here and a sort of a sort of slight smile and happiness that actually we're doing it ourselves now. That's kind of how it feels. So this country is figuring out their own technology, their own jammers, their own drones, and they're basically, if they're going to have to fight this war themselves, they will. They've had to do this with Russia well before 2022, and they'll continue to do it well after 2022. So I think that's the feeling now. It's okay if the US Isn't onside. We'll do it ourselves. That's how it feels.
- [08:37]
A
What about among regular folks? I mean, you're talking about it. It has to be more scary. It has to be Scarier. And there's been a level of fear throughout. But, you know, after what's happened this weekend, I don't, like, are you hearing from folks that they're thinking about leaving town? Or, like, what are you sensing on the street? I'm seeing people walking around behind you. So it's not a ghost town, but what's the sense?
- [08:55]
B
Well, I mean, people are used to this, and it's not normal. You know, when this war is over, there's going to be a massive mental health crisis in this country because people have become totally desensitized to the type of terrorism that Russia's been unleashing on here every day, including myself. I mean, I don't find it scary or shocking anymore, which isn't good and isn't normal.
- [09:11]
A
You're sleeping like you're sleeping a little bit.
- [09:15]
B
Not very much, but a little bit. I think leaving Europe is one of the strangest moments. I think going to Brussels, every time a car door slammed, I would jump. And One of the MEPs there said, I think you might have a bit of ptsd. But I think this is the case with everyone in Ukraine, and it isn't normal, but people adjust. Human beings have an incredible capacity to adjust to their environment and to cope with a million different things, and that's kind of how it feels here in Kyiv. People just carry on. And this city has been through far worse. This country has been through far worse. You know, there was a lot of more. There have been genocides carried out here, and people are going to continue to try and live their lives with their insane neighbors as much as possible. But people are worried. I mean, it's a difficult situation.
- [10:01]
A
What's behind you? Where are you?
- [10:02]
B
I'm in the square, right in the center of town. So this is one of the main churches here. This is Sophia's. And then behind me is St. Michael's which is really, really beautiful. And these are Russian tanks that try to take this city that the mayor and Zelensky tried to repurpose into a bit of a museum, which is quite fun to show, you know, because Russia brought on their convoy here Victory day uniforms. They thought that they would do a victory day parade here if they took this city. My friends have some of the badges from those uniforms and convoys, and it's just a reminder to people here that this is what Russia is. It's a bunch of rusty old tanks that didn't quite make it to the city that they thought they could take in three days, and now three and a half Years later, you know, they're taking fields and villages at a tiny rate on the front. So this. That's what the center is. But this is beautiful. It's still families walking around celebrating. You know, Kyiv is a beautiful city. It's where I just got engaged. It's.
- [11:01]
A
Congratulations.
- [11:02]
B
City of love.
- [11:03]
A
Your engagement. Your fiance. I don't know if we're calling. We're using that word. Whatever is. How does he feel about this choice of yours? Maybe there could be a safer place to prepare for a wedding. Possibly.
- [11:20]
B
He wants. I think he wants to leave Ukraine because, you know, it's not the most relaxing place to live.
- [11:27]
A
I'm going to cause a breakup here. This interview is going to cause. It's going to cause a breakup. It was a cute moment.
- [11:32]
B
I love this city and I love this country. And whenever we talk about going on holidays, I always say, let's go to Odessa. And he's like, maybe we can go to somewhere that isn't being hit by missiles every night. But I just. I don't want to leave here until this is over.
- [11:45]
A
Santorini, maybe Mykonos, you know. All right, well, do you have any other updates for us? Anything I haven't asked you, anything that people should know about that's happening?
- [11:56]
B
Well, no, I think I just gave you an overview of everything that's going on now. I mean, I wish I could go into more detail about what was discussed at Zelensky's conference today, but it was mostly off the record. But there's interesting stuff happening here. The government, people involved in. In the government are pretty hopeful, but no one knows what's going to happen next. This is the most uncertain time I have ever felt in this country. And we'll see.
- [12:20]
A
All right, well, stay safe. Kaylan. It's pretty shameful what is happening here. I went on a large rant about the Republic because there's no expectation for Trump, really. But there still is ostensibly a super majority in our Congress of people that want to support Ukraine. It's just they're too cowardly to do it. And so I do think it's important to make sure it's in their face what is happening, so they know what they're complicit in in the hopes that maybe the tune will change.
- [12:46]
B
People here separate Trump from Americans as well. I mean, people here love America. That's why the Maidan Revolution happened. The revolution of dignity. It's about freedom and democracy, and America is the birthplace of that. Right. And I think the same way. But my followers have gone up quite significantly from the United States since Trump berated Zelenskyy at the White House because I think a lot of Americans were like, okay, this is appalling. And we want to support Ukraine. We want to support Ukrainian journalists in Ukraine and follow this kind of news, which gives me so much hope because America is full of amazing people and it always will be.
- [13:21]
A
Not quite as many as amazing people as we need it, unfortunately. But that's for that's a me. That's a me problem, not a you problem. All right, Kaylan, man, hang in there. Stay safe. Congrats on the engagement. And we'll talk to you. It's unfortunate. Every time I'm talking to you is because something horrible just happened. So maybe something good happens. We'll talk to you next time, hopefully. Fingers crossed.
- [13:37]
B
I'll let you know.
- [13:38]
A
All right, we'll see you, man.