Laura Loomer’s Unhinged Crusade Is Eating the Right Alive

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes

Episode: Laura Loomer’s Unhinged Crusade Is Eating the Right Alive
Date: April 22, 2026
Hosts: Sam Stein, Tim Miller, Will Sommer
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the recent and escalating online feud between right-wing personalities Laura Loomer and Candace Owens, exploring the underlying ideological, personal, and social dynamics that are dividing MAGA punditry. The episode also includes an irreverent MAGA pundit “power ranking” according to how Donald Trump and the Bulwark hosts would rate them.

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Episode Overview

This episode offers an inside look at the chaotic, personal, and increasingly vicious infighting that’s fracturing the right-wing media ecosystem. Using the public battle between Laura Loomer and Candace Owens as a jumping-off point, the Bulwark trio analyzes what’s driving these feuds, the personal history and grievance exchanges between the parties, and what this reveals about the broader state of American right-wing politics. Memorable moments, segment highlights, and sharply quoted barbs are highlighted throughout.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Context: Loomer vs. Owens – The Right's "Iran-Iraq War"

[03:08]

• Sam Stein: Frames the Loomer vs. Owens online feud as the right’s “Iran-Iraq war.”
• Will Sommer: Explains the origins:
  • Candace Owens is highly critical of Israel; Loomer is staunchly pro-Israel.
  • Loomer has started attacking Owens’ personal life and business dealings, especially involving Owens’ husband, wealthy UK businessman George Farmer.
• Tim Miller: Notes Loomer’s tactic: “She’s been going for the jugular with the businesses of the kind of America Firsters.”
  • Examples include Loomer targeting Tucker Carlson’s nicotine company and “celebrating the hijacking” of his products.

2. Personal Attacks Go Nuclear

[05:14 / 08:29]

• The hosts read Loomer’s tweet accusing Owens of being a “social climber” who dumped a long-term boyfriend (“Ryan”) for George Farmer’s money, mocking Owens’ claims of religious devotion.
• Tim Miller: “She’s for the streets.”
• In response, Candace Owen’s counterattack, read on-air, is scathing and deeply personal, branding Loomer as “Larry,” mocking her Jewish identity, referencing alleged mental health issues, and calling her “a manic depressive that has nothing of substance in your life.”
  • Quote: “You are the useful idiot of the Trump campaign because they know that in your manic phases, you stay until 1am offering non-consequential schizo Lumer tweets while the rest of us are with our families. Everyone pities you, but the reality is you have both the face and the sad life you deserve.” — Candace Owens [08:29]

3. Implied Bigotry and Insults within MAGA Feuds

[07:01 / 10:04 / 11:19]

• The hosts discuss how accusations of being “gay,” “anti-Semitic,” or a “fake Jew” are used as weapons within these feuds.
• Will Sommer: “There is also this accusation that [George Farmer] groped Raheem Kassam...”
• Tim Miller: “Two worst things you can be: Jewish or gay. Or fake Jewish—maybe even worse.” [11:19]
• Extended riff on the triviality and pettiness of insults (“you never had a bat mitzvah”)—lampooned as “Jewish summer camp insults.” [12:22]

4. Examining the Feud's Underbelly

[13:34]

• The hosts address a Candace Owens video in which she attempts to tie Loomer to sexual misconduct allegations, noting no credible evidence.
• Will Sommer: Explains that many sources are unreliable (“There’s not a single reliable narrator anywhere in any of the stories.”) [14:26]
• Discussion covers Loomer's "malignant" online persona, reputational attacks, and the convoluted web of right-wing “celebrity” feuds, often abetted by bad-faith actors and former allies-turned-enemies, notably Milo Yiannopoulos.
  • Sommer: “There’s a lot of agendas at play.” [15:07]

5. Playing the Viral Loomer Pickup Video

[16:02]

• Candace Owens’ camp circulated an old Loomer video hitting on a future neo-Nazi writer, used now to shame or mock her—but the Bulwark hosts push back against the idea that ordinary awkward flirting is damning.
• Tim Miller: "Everybody sounds embarrassing flirting... In that case, I don't think Laura Loomer was doing anything inappropriate." [17:21]

6. Loomer’s Role in the Anti-Candace Lawsuit

[19:05]

• Loomer is trying to insert herself as a “financial investigator” in the Macrons’ (French president’s family) lawsuit against Candace Owens over transphobic allegations, playing to her persona as a MAGA “fixer” and Trumpworld informant.

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Power Rankings: Who’s Hot, Who’s Not in MAGA Media

Segment starts [24:20]
Prompted by Donald Trump’s boast about ranking MAGA pundits, the hosts create their own list—using both “Trump’s brain” and their personal taste.

Format

• “Good” (Trump’s favorites)
• “Bad” (on the outs or opposed to Trump)
• “Mushy Middle” (ambiguous or transactional relationships)

Notable Rankings and Debates:

• Mark Levin: “You’re going to put in there at the top.” — Tim Miller [25:42]
• Ben Shapiro: “Is in the fam right now.” — Tim Miller [25:47]
• Benny Johnson: “Benny’s getting a little rowdy...I think Benny’s in the bad boy camp now.” — Will Sommer [25:54]
• Tim Pool: Considered still “good” due to entrepreneurial hustle (opening a coffee shop), but placed in “middle” for balance.
• Candace Owens, Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, Nick Fuentes: All on the “bad" list due to current rifts or public criticism of Trump.
• Laura Loomer: “Love”—now ascendant in Trumpworld, seen as fixated on “taking down” Candace and others.

Alternative (and Satirical) Good/Bad Lists

[29:40+]

• Tim Miller offers a deeply ironic “good list,” selecting:
  • James Lindsay: For being “dumped on” by other right-wingers, but “kind of right most of the time lately, at least in his critique of his fellow MAGA commentators.”
  • Nick Fuentes: “Bad person...but when he makes fun of the people that call in to ask him questions, it's pretty good material. Like, he's really on the people that call into his own show. And you can kind of tell he hates his life now and he hates the other gripers.” [30:15+]
  • Joe Rogan, Elijah Schaefer, HouseInHabit: Included for odd, ironic, or anti-MAGA reasons.
  • Megan Kelly: Gets an “attaboy” for liking Sam Stein’s tweets (“Keep the likes coming, Megan. I like the likes, but I would love an RT more.” — Stein [33:37])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “She’s for the streets.” — Tim Miller on Loomer [05:14]
• “You have both the face and the sad life you deserve.” — Candace Owens’ tweet [09:17]
• “Two worst things you can be: Jewish or gay...or fake Jewish, maybe even worse.” — Miller & Sommer [11:19]
• “There’s not a single reliable narrator anywhere in any of the stories.” — Tim Miller [14:26]
• "I'm gonna have to defend Loomer on this one... Everybody sounds embarrassing flirting." — Tim Miller, defending Loomer in a viral “pickup” clip [17:21]
• "At some point, you gotta age out of this, but then I look at Megyn Kelly and she's in her prime right now." — Sam Stein [23:37]
• "You never have to hand it to ISIS." — Tim Miller, parodying the awkwardness of crediting Nick Fuentes [31:35]
• “If you have a BMI over 25, you know, you can’t claim to represent me.” — Nick Fuentes (quoted by Will Sommer) [36:00]
• "There’s a larger point here...there’s this tension here where you’re supposed to represent the perfect race, and all your followers are just not perfect, to put it gently." — Sam Stein [36:41]

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Timeline & Timestamps for Major Segments

• Live Show Promo & Episode Intro: [01:31]
• Candace Owens vs. Laura Loomer Feud Backstory: [03:08]–[07:21]
• Reading/Evaluating Loomer’s Attacks: [05:14]–[06:14]
• Candace’s Retaliatory Tweet: [08:29]
• Discussion of Alleged Insults (“Fake Jew,” etc): [10:04]–[12:22]
• Sexual Misconduct Accusations/Personal Attacks: [13:34]–[15:07]
• Loomer's Pickup Video Analysis: [16:02]–[18:47]
• Loomer’s Role in the Macron Lawsuit: [19:05]
• More Loomer/Candace Tweet Exchanges: [19:44]–[20:12]
• Power Rankings Segment: [24:20]–[34:29]
• Nick Fuentes & Groyper Fanbase Discussion: [34:59]–[38:01]
• Outro and Live Show Re-promo: [38:24]

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Tone and Style

The episode’s tone is sharp, irreverent, and frequently tongue-in-cheek, blending trenchant media analysis with inside jokes, pop-culture references, and barely-concealed exasperation at the level of discourse on the MAGA right. The hosts lampoon the pettiness and toxicity of these online figures, but balance this with detailed knowledge of intra-MAGA dynamics, offering both entertainment and insight for the audience.

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For Listeners

• This episode is essential listening (or reading) for those curious about how personal vendettas, petty online feuds, and barely coded bigotry drive the drama — and in-fighting — of the contemporary American right.
• The analysis is both scathing and rich in detail, with choice bite-sized quotes, context, and entertaining asides to bring the story to life even if you haven’t followed Loomer, Owens, or the broader MAGA pundit class closely.
• The MAGA “power ranking” segment is a highlight for fans of political media gossip and comedy.

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End of summary – skip all commercials, intros, and outros per instructions.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Sam Stein]

Sam Stein here with Will Sommer and Tim Miller. The trio is back. Thought about you guys all on my vacation. Really really desperately wanted to do this but just couldn't get away from the famine time. Too many margaritas I think could have

[Tim Miller]

done it from the Bat Hotel shower.

[Sam Stein]

I thought about it. Wouldn't have gone well.

[Tim Miller]

Clothed clothed.

[Sam Stein]

Hey listen, before we get into this we got a lot coming on. I just want everyone to be alerted to the fact that we got some great live shows coming up in San Diego and la. They are next month. Tickets going fast so you definitely should try to get one. You can buy tickets@the bulwark.com events. Go check it out. I'm just going to give a tease. We're going to talk a lot about Candace and and Laura Loomer who seem to be fighting a fair bit online. And then we're going to do a little bit of Will's newsletter which I'm excited about from last night. But the thing I I really we're going to be a little gimmicky here. I wanted to do something. It kind of got unnoticed. Donald Trump. Last week's put out some posts where he's like, oh, I could do a rankings of the maga pundits, the good, the bad, and the mediocre. He's like, but I'm too busy. But we're not too busy. And so we have Will doing a ranking, and maybe Tim can chime in with his own rankings of the mag pundits. We got them lined up. There's about 18 of them, so it's going to take a while. But we're starting with Candace.

[Tim Miller]

What are we. How are we ranking them? What's the. One of the terms of the categories?

[Sam Stein]

We're just going to do it based on Trump's own guidelines. The best, the moderates, and the worst. But we can do your own rankings. I'm not.

[Tim Miller]

I'm not gonna be too well. I was gonna use the RuPaul system, but we can use.

[Will Sommer]

Okay, I like the RuPaul option.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you.

[Sam Stein]

You could. You're free. This is a free country. You can do what you want. All right, let's start with Candace. Laura Loomer. This is the Iran Iraq war of our times. I have not really understood why this is breaking out to the degree it is right now. I know Will probably knows this like it's the Bible. So, Will, what is the backstory here?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, so obviously, you know, the. The stakes here are Candace's is very anti Semitic, opposed to Israel. Laura is on the opposite side of that. And. And obviously it's gotten more heated with the Iran war. So that's kind of like what was going on before. More recently, Laura has started going directly at Candace. She's saying, you know, I'm digging into Candace's businesses. I'm digging into her husband, this guy named George Farmer, very wealthy British guy. And so that. It is sort of why they're now really tearing into each other. Just over the past few days, Laura

[Tim Miller]

Loomer's been going for the jugular with the businesses of the kind of America Firsters. She went after Trump's. Excuse me. She went after Tucker's Zinn. Competitive.

[Sam Stein]

She did company.

[Will Sommer]

She celebrated the hijacking of his nicotine pouches.

[Tim Miller]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, she celebrated a hijacking.

[Sam Stein]

The gold. And the gold, too, right?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, the gold. So she's been going for the finance.

[Will Sommer]

And.

[Tim Miller]

And, you know, people get upset when you call them anti Semites and go for their money.

[Sam Stein]

That's. Yes, you Know us Jews, that's what we care about. Anyways, moving on. So let's give you a little taste. We're going to just read this first Loomer one about Candace Owens living with a man named Ryan who she was dating. I'm gonna. We're gonna put it up here. Cancellence was living with a man named Brian who she was dating for seven years when he came home one day and told him she was engaged to George Farmer. How is she devout Catholic? Two weeks before she was engaged to George Farmer, she was living in Philadelphia with Ryan and her cat. She threw the cat in there. She was planning to marry Ryan, then she met George, and two weeks later she's engaged to him because she had more money than Ryan. Jesus Christ, don't let her tell you she's some devout Catholic. She's from the streets. Ah, okay.

[Tim Miller]

She's for the streets.

[Sam Stein]

She's for the streets. Sorry. Okay. Ryan was her Republican boyfriend who converted her from Democrats Republican by helping her make videos under the username Red pill Black. How do I know? Because Candace invited me to dinner with her and Ryan in Connecticut multiple times in 2017. She's a social climber and will say and do anything for money and fame, including abandon a man she spent seven years with for a lady like Brit with a trust fund and rich daddy. Isn't that right? At Lord, the Lord Farmer, please tell us why you don't follow your daughter in law.

[Podcast Host]

Next.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, my God. First of all, Elon needs to bring back the character limits. These tweets are too long.

[Tim Miller]

I assume the Lord Farmer is George Farmer's father, who's a Lord.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, Mr. Copper, as he's known because he's a wealthy metals trader in the uk and yes, he's a member of the House of Lords. And so that is kind of what Laura is setting up here. I don't know the backstory regarding Ryan, the jilted maybe boyfriend. Well, isn't Ryan the guy she was living with?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

We know anything about him?

[Will Sommer]

No. No, I. I don't. And so, like, what we're looking at here, we should track him down.

[Tim Miller]

That feels like a false flag newsletter. Where's Ryan these days?

[Sam Stein]

Where is Ryan?

[Will Sommer]

Ryan, come back. You were kind of like the Svengali who created Candace Owens. So basically what we're looking at here is two people who have really lengthy backstories, some some in court records, some not that have really been picked over. And so whenever these people start fighting, they kind of dredge all this stuff up in this Case, you know, Candace Owens did get engaged to this George Farmer guy who again is very wealthy because of his father after I think she has said like two weeks of knowing each other. So that's really, really pretty short. There's like a Scientologist, a wealthy Scientologist they're really tight with in the uk so there's a lot of kind of like weird stuff Laura's dredging up here.

[Tim Miller]

George does give off kind of a ponce effect, I will say, but I just think that's European like you know, for at the millennial level. This is different among the Gen Z's, but at the millennial level there thing European or gay. And I do think that the George, George Farmer is just falling on the European side of that. But Laura Loomer's trying to make it.

[Sam Stein]

Sorry, what does that mean? If you're European, you come off as gay?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. I mean for a certain demo. Yeah. A lot of Europeans came off a little gay, a little fruity.

[Sam Stein]

Every European across the continent.

[Tim Miller]

Well, you know, more so than the average person from Little Rock. Yeah. Like if you took the median person from Little Rock and the median person from Brussels and they're a 38 year old man, the Brussels gentleman is going to seem a little bit, you know, a little bit lighter in the loafers.

[Sam Stein]

I don't, I don't know if I agree with that.

[Tim Miller]

Their outfits are true.

[Will Sommer]

It's true.

[Tim Miller]

You need to travel the world a little bit more. I would like to read the Candace Owens response tweet if you don't mind because this is what prompted my demand that we trio. There are many others. We're going to show some other things, but this was the one that really caught my eye. So following Laura Loomer suggesting that Candace is Owen Owens husband might be a little ladylike, that the marriage might be inauthentic. Candace strikes back with this. Looks like I struck a nerve with Larry. She calls Laura Larry. I think it's kind of a transgender joke.

[Sam Stein]

You think?

[Tim Miller]

You keep sharing this weird AI photo of my husband in Milo Yiannopoulos hoping that someone will believe it's real. How pathetic do you have to be to sit around making AI photos again? You are deeply envious of my life, my husband and my children. What is not AI are the photos and video that Milo has of you and your anti psychotic medicine. Plus the videos of you learning how to make a star of David. You are not Jewish, Larry. You are a white Irish girl just like Rachel Dolezal. You've never had a bat Mitzvah, it's really time to let this Jewess act go. You think you're some scary thug, but you're just a manic depressive that has nothing of substance in your life. You're the useful idiot of the Trump campaign because they know that in your manic phases, you stay until 1am offering non consequential schizo Lumer tweets while the rest of us are with our families. Everyone pities you, but the reality is you have both the face and the sad life you deserve.

[Sam Stein]

Woof.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, that is what you call going for the jugular. You know, that is. There's. There's definitely like, Laura, you know, went to like a seven and Candace came back and he's like, she's like, here's a 6972, like, I'm going full on takedown. You're not. You are not a Jewess.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Is that a common. I've never heard that criticism lobbed at Laura Loomer that she's fake Jew. Like, I, I feel like that one is new.

[Tim Miller]

It was new to me that.

[Will Sommer]

That's a new one. I mean, it. There's a sense that she grew up in a sort of like, very secular Jewish household, I believe in Arizona, somewhere out west.

[Tim Miller]

But.

[Will Sommer]

But definitely not that she's just like, just faking it entirely. That, that would be. I mean, that would be like quite a development in the lunar identity.

[Tim Miller]

What I'm curious about is in the reference to Laura as Larry and like the. Or she keeps calling him Larry and makes the attacks. Like, is Candace a big Lebowski fan? Like, is she doing the. Like, is this your homework, Larry? Like, is this your homework, Larry?

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, the Larry thing was really popularized by Tucker Carlson's nicotine company in their posts and also by Tucker's brother Buckley, who really has. Has been mixing it up with Laura on Twitter for a while and will say, you know, thanks a lot, Larry, or whatever. And. And so Candace is kind of picking up the Larry thing here. The other thing I wanted to mention about Candace's husband, you know, obviously she's talking about this AI picture of, you know, it looks like he's very much in Milo's confidants.

[Sam Stein]

The.

[Will Sommer]

This accusation is very common, obviously, to accuse men in the right, in these inter. Right feuds of being gay. An interesting thing that comes up here is this actually two worst things.

[Tim Miller]

You can be Jewish or gay or

[Will Sommer]

fake Jewish or fake Jewish, maybe even worse.

[Sam Stein]

Yes, even worse.

[Will Sommer]

There is also this accusation that He. He groped Raheem Kassam, who is sort of a Bannonite who also owns the Mr. Butter.

[Tim Miller]

Do we have another. Do we have another source on that? Because Raheem Kusam is a liar.

[Will Sommer]

Well, I just wanted to note that Raheem noted he at one point he was happy to host sort of a peace summit at Butterworth. And he said, Candace's husband can come as long as, you know, he doesn't grab my hog or whatever. So, you know, there are okay far

[Tim Miller]

for me to come to the defense of Candace's husband. But as somebody that. Who has been on the receiving end of Raheem Kassam's lies and smears, he likes to just malign people.

[Sam Stein]

Totally out of character for this universe. Can we gloss over the fact that Candace went with you never had a bat mitzvah as an insult? Like, what is this? We're not.

[Tim Miller]

Like, you never even had a bat mitzvah.

[Will Sommer]

This is like Jewish summer camp insults. You read the phonetic spelling at your bat Mitzvah.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, that might land in, like, the five towns of Long island as an insult, but, like, I feel like no one. No one actually cares that.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I feel like me and JVL do those kinds of things with jv. JD Vance. It's like, you know, like, have you ever even prayed to St. Anthony when you lost something? J.D.

[Will Sommer]

vance?

[Tim Miller]

No. Fake fucking Catholic.

[Sam Stein]

But it's like, you don't even. I mean, the bat mitzvah thing is so silly and trivial, but I guess, maybe.

[Tim Miller]

How was your bat mitzvah, Sam?

[Sam Stein]

It's a bar mitzvah for a. For a man. Thank you for your understanding, and it was great.

[Tim Miller]

You know, then shouldn't she have said bar mitzvah for.

[Sam Stein]

She was going with the lyrics.

[Will Sommer]

Well, that's true. She's like, yes, I had a bar mitos.

[Sam Stein]

No, but it's like, you know, you. You read from the Torah and your. Your. Your prepubescent voice, and then you play a game of Coke and Pepsi, which I'm sure you guys have no idea what I'm talking about. And you have some DJs dancing, and that's it. It's not like a sign of real. I mean, it is actually a sign of religious virtue, but whatever. It's like, it's a silly insult. I feel like Candace should brought more.

[Tim Miller]

I want to play the Candace video. I think Attack on Laura is also worth sharing.

[Sam Stein]

Yes.

[Tim Miller]

Why don't we pull that up to Laura Loomer is also a malignant sexual predator and has been repeatedly accused since the beginning of her career of raping and sexually assaulting men. That is not a typical thing that men come out with that. Men come out and say, a woman sexually assaulted me.

[Sam Stein]

Hold on. I have to. I have to step in and use my usual disclaimer.

[Tim Miller]

We've.

[Sam Stein]

There's no proof of this. We're not saying that it's true. Well, no. Well, she's not.

[Will Sommer]

Well, well, not. Not of assault. Not of assault, but. But there is a history of men saying Laura Loomer pursued them in ways that made them uncomfortable. Gavin. Gavin Wax, who is the head of the New York Young Republicans Club, was mixed up in one of the chat leaks, now works in the Trump administration in the State Department. I believe he, at one point was like, Laura Loomer stalking me. I mean, he was, like, writing blog posts or something about this. And then, you know, my little.

[Tim Miller]

There's not a single reliable narrator anywhere in any of the stories. It's like every time you bring something up, it's like, well, it's. Gavin Wax said so. And it's like, Gavin Wax. It's like, full of.

[Sam Stein]

I need to just stop because the. The seriousness with which Will came back at me, I've never seen Will jump into action. Usually you're so, like, calm.

[Will Sommer]

You can really see the influence I believe Milo Yiannopoulos is having behind the scenes here. He is obviously a very Loomer friend turned enemy, and he has long pushed this idea that Loomer assaulted one of the staffers on her congressional campaign or in general. And so you. You can see here, I think there's a lot of agendas at play.

[Tim Miller]

I did see another tweet from somebody talking about how Laura Loomer had made a pass at them. This was not a handsome man. After an event recently, I wish I would have bookmarked it. But there, you know, there are other. Other posters out there who are suggesting that she's been a little aggressive. And. Yeah, the Milo feud, I mean, as we've discussed on the Trio before, you got to see that firsthand when Laura Loomer broke up my fight with Carrie Lake at a bar and then told me that she. Part of the reason why she broke it up was because she had her eyes on another homosexual. The two of them started screaming at each other at the bar.

[Sam Stein]

How do you keep track of all these feuds? Will, like, there. There's so many different.

[Will Sommer]

I know.

[Sam Stein]

Angles here.

[Will Sommer]

I love them. I love them. And and you know, people are always calling me, oh, you know, I gotta get this person or whatever. So you're right. I mean, you know, we were talking about maybe someday doing kind of a whiteboard crazy wall where I explain all the different. Different allegiances and feuds.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, well, can we. Let's play the other video, this sort of infamous rumor video where she does appear to be throwing herself at an individual, a male. And this one's always made Candace Candice put this up as well. Let's play it.

[Will Sommer]

And then.

[Sam Stein]

Will, can you just explain? Because this, I've seen this a million times and I don't even know who the guy was, but he told me who it was. Let's play it. And then, Will, you could take it after that. It'd be like that sometimes. I know they're just jealous because that big tits and an Ashkanadi iq. Yes, that's what it is. You got it. Anyway, next time you in New York, let me know. We'll hang out. Bring your girlfriend in New York sometime and we'll all hang out. We'll go to like really cool restaurants and hang out. Blast. Yes, I will bring my girlfriend. Okay, what is girlfriend? What is the origins of this?

[Tim Miller]

So that was Loomer in the video?

[Will Sommer]

Yes. And so this is one of the most sort of treasured relics of right wing media infighting. What we got here, I believe this is almost a decade old at this point. This is a video of Laura Loomer hitting on a guy named Mike Ma, who would later go on to be an eco fascist neo Nazi writer. Very treasured by a lot in the far right, who I believe last year there was someone who was like trying to blow up a power plant, who had copies of his books. So that's, that's what we're working with.

[Tim Miller]

I'm gonna have to defend Loomer on this one. I was on Candace's side earlier. You gotta call them balls and strikes in these sort of situations. Nobody, Nobody. So everyone sounds embarrassing flirting. Everybody sounds embarrassing flirting. There's never been a leaked text where somebody is sliding into another person's DMs where both sides seem very chill and cool. Like if there was a video of anyone at the bar, any, at any time talking to someone they wanted to kiss, you would be embarrassed to see that video. And in that case, I don't think Laura Limmer was doing anything inappropriate. She was flirting with a handsome eco fascist and was kind of being kind and, and, and saying no.

[Sam Stein]

He was pretty forthright. I have a Girlfriend. Let me just stress I'm bringing my girlfriend who shot the video. I. I'm just dying tonight.

[Will Sommer]

We don't know. I mean, this is. This is really, like, alt, right? 2016, 2017 times. I mean, you can. I. You know, I give Laura a lot of credit. If there was a video of me like that out there, I think I'd, like, kind of slink away and, you know, shrivel up. But, you know, she.

[Tim Miller]

She.

[Will Sommer]

The. The big tip.

[Tim Miller]

Never been rejected at a bar will.

[Will Sommer]

Well, like a video of me saying, oh, I got big tits and an Ashkenazi IQ to. To a Nazi.

[Tim Miller]

You know, I don't know.

[Sam Stein]

It is a little bit of an irony. I. I used to throw on my Ashkenazi IQ as a pickup line in college. It did not work.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, really?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, surprisingly, I thought it was a go to.

[Tim Miller]

Seriously?

[Sam Stein]

No, I did not.

[Tim Miller]

What is your iq? Do you know your iq?

[Sam Stein]

I taken an IQ test, but I am Ashkenazi, and I was bar mitzvahed. Legit. Anything else we want to talk about in this feud or not?

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, the one thing I wanted to bring up here is Laura's acting like she's gonna. The McCrones obviously are suing Candace over the trans allegations, and Laura's acting like she's gonna uncover all of Candace's hidden assets. She's saying, you know, you're changing, you know, officers at your companies or whatever. I mean, to be clear, that lawsuit is really just getting started. Laura loves being like, I. I want them, you to know, it was me. I tipped off, you know, I showed President Trump Tucker's rude tweet as though, you know, they wouldn't find these things eventually. But it is interesting that Laura's, you know, trying to help the Macrones out.

[Sam Stein]

I will just say we've played a couple Candace videos and only done one Lore tweet, so I want to just do one last tweet to sort of round this up. Let's do the one about her.

[Tim Miller]

Make sure we also say both sides are heard.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I want the one about Charlie choosing Erica over her. Can we put that up? It says, every day the world watches you humiliate yourself because you are so mad Charlie Kirk chose Erica over you, didn't get to go to his wedding, and you weren't even allowed to say goodbye at his funeral. Oh, God. That's how hated you are because you are an oxygen thief, and you should be charged for every bit of oxygen you steal from planet Earth.

[Tim Miller]

Kind of like a cap and trade. Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

It must burn you that Erica was the last person to touch his Jesus. I don't know why I decided to read this. I'm gonna stop. This makes me uncomfortable. I don't like this.

[Tim Miller]

Could we do the scoop ahead to the last line? Your children hate your. Your children hate you, and your allegedly homosexual husband most definitely hates you. It's a strong code. I just think that the gay thing. I don't mind a good gay joke. All right. If you can execute a gay joke against somebody, particularly in a mag on MAGA feud, I'll laugh. I'll chuckle if it's well done. This feels like a stretch. This feels like you're really struggling. I mean, Candace has multiple young children, so George Farmer is clearly capable of consummating the marriage. We don't have any evidence that he's actually gay. I just. I feel like there's so much to work with with Candace that it feels a little. Feels a little cheap from Laura. And, you know, I think we're kind of grading this figure skating judge style. I'm gonna have to docker a few points.

[Sam Stein]

How old are these people at this point?

[Will Sommer]

Laura's maybe 31 or 32.

[Tim Miller]

No, Laura Loomer is only 31.

[Sam Stein]

It's easy to Google. You guys talk while I Google this.

[Tim Miller]

Candace is 36. Candace looks great. Laura Loomer is only 31.

[Sam Stein]

32.

[Tim Miller]

If you could, you would have. Could have told me. 52. I. Candace is 36.

[Will Sommer]

I'm gonna leave that one.

[Tim Miller]

Leave that one there. I mean, that is shocking.

[Will Sommer]

32 years old. I hear a lot. Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

At some point, they're gonna age out of this.

[Tim Miller]

That's gotta be fake. That's got to be a fake cage. Like she's doing the fake birth certificate. No, I mean.

[Will Sommer]

No. I mean, we've. I mean, we've. Her career has been public basically since she graduated from college.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, that's right. I just think at some point, you get too old for this.

[Tim Miller]

She considered One Skin. Our friends at One Skin.

[Sam Stein]

You know, Is this in your pr in show ad placement?

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[Tim Miller]

She should concern herself with the senescent cell health. She's 31.

[Sam Stein]

All right, I'll just, I'm gonna leave it this. At some point, you gotta age out of this. But then I look at Megan Kelly and she's in her prime right now.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, Meg Kelly.

[Will Sommer]

Mark Levin. I mean, you know, people will Strong

[Tim Miller]

late in life, Donald Trump.

[Will Sommer]

Right?

[Sam Stein]

I mean, they love, they love this. All right, let's move to the rankings. So here's the deal. And this is gimmicky and I admit it, but whatever, Trump, as I noted up top, he put out this social. He said he should make a list of the good, the bad and the somewhere in the middle. MAGA pundits. And then he didn't do it. And there was some appetite online to see what his list would look like if he did do it. So I put together a list of 18 pundits. This is a lot. I'm going to read through them. I know Will prepared for this so Will can give us his listen. And Tim, maybe you could just critique.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I'm prepared. I'm going to do it right now. We're doing it live.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, so here is the list in no particular order. Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, Tucker Cross and Candace Owens. Benny Johnson, Tim Pool, Nick Shirley, Megyn Kelly, Jack Masobic, Alex Jones, Laura Loomer, Mark Levin, Nick Fuentes, Will's boy, Elijah Schaefer Tim's boy, Clay Travis, Chris Rufo, house inhabit. And James Lindsay. Okay, that's it, man. That's. That's a list.

[Tim Miller]

So that is a rough list.

[Sam Stein]

It's a rough list.

[Will Sommer]

We left gallery.

[Sam Stein]

We left out the Fox News people. We thought that. And we're going to keep TV to the side. And we just. List was getting too long now. The instructions were. And we don't have to follow. The instructions were to pretend you're Donald Trump. All right, so you're the President of the United States and you just basically want to inhabit his head space and say, okay, here's my six good, here's my six mediocre. Here's my six bad. Those are the instructions. Will, what's your list?

[Will Sommer]

Sure. So, I mean, let's just line them up.

[Tim Miller]

So I'm not going to do that. You can do your own creating. My personal list.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, let's, let's just talk about who's. Who's, you know, who's. Who's the new hotness and who's old and busted. Yeah. So who do we have? Let's kick it off.

[Tim Miller]

I think that the first category is the people that Trump likes now. Yes. So that's, you know, that's going to be micropenis. Mark Levin, you're going to put in

[Sam Stein]

there at the top.

[Tim Miller]

I think he said it seems like Trump's got to be all his content.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

And then Ben Shapiro, I think is. Is in the fam right now. I would say Benny Johnson seems to be.

[Will Sommer]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Benny has become very critical of Israel. And, you know, Benny's getting. Is getting a little rowdy. So I think Benny's in the bad boy camp.

[Tim Miller]

So I guess we'll put Clay Travis on the good side since he is supporting the Iran war and wants to bet me a million dollars the gas prices will go down next year. I'm still trying to fund that bet because I feel pretty good about it, but I don't. I don't really. I don't have that kind of scratch to throw around. You could help me with that if you wanted to join the Bulwark plus right now. So Clay, he'd be in the good list. Boy, it's kind of tough. He's on the outset. A lot of people. Loomer, I guess, and Nick Shirley, I guess, would probably be on the good list. 100 pretty hot.

[Sam Stein]

Where's Tim Pool on this?

[Will Sommer]

Tim Pool, I think, is still on the good list because people, Tim's kind of a hard one to nail down. He's also doing pretty well. He's going to open a coffee shop soon. So I feel like Trump likes that, likes to see business success.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, Okay. I put Tim in the. In the middle because we need some people in that middle list. It's easier to do the bad list. So we can, we can start there too, obviously. On the bad list. Tucker. He fucking hates Tucker right now. Candace. Not happy with Candace. And Megyn Kelly, he's been railing on her. That's three right there. Okay.

[Tim Miller]

And Alex Jones.

[Sam Stein]

And Alex Jones.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

That's four. So we need two more Rogans, kind

[Tim Miller]

of Rogans at the White House.

[Sam Stein]

He was at the White House, but he's also not totally happy. So I'm going to put him in the middle.

[Will Sommer]

I think they're courting him. Yes, I would put him in the middle.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. That leaves a bunch of curious ones. Nick Fuentes. I think you got to put him on the bad list.

[Will Sommer]

Bad boy list. Yes.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. Yeah. All right. Elijah Schaefer.

[Will Sommer]

I mean, setting aside that Trump has no idea who this is. Elijah Schaefer is. Is on the bad boy list. He recently dyed his hair blonde. A lot of revelations are coming out in his lawsuit.

[Tim Miller]

Let's table Eliza Schaefer, because he's going to be in good category. We're gonna get. Yeah, we'll explain it a little bit.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, fine. All right, Keeping going here. James Lindsay, kind of, you know, James

[Will Sommer]

Lindsay would be in. Let's put him in the middle list. I. I want to do who he is.

[Sam Stein]

I'm not sure everyone knows who James is.

[Will Sommer]

So this is a guy who is kind of one of these conceptual James. You know, he was one of these big. The big kind of faces of like anti DEI and critical race theory guys. And more recently, he's become like a big anti people like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes, who. He calls them the woke. Right. Which doesn't really make any sense, but know, let's. Let's just put them in the mushy middle.

[Sam Stein]

Mushy middle.

[Tim Miller]

Fine.

[Sam Stein]

Fair house inhabit.

[Will Sommer]

You know, house inhabit. Was just at the White House, I believe, meeting. You know, she's trying to revitalize the Maha agenda. So I, I would say, you know, I, I know, I know the good list is full, but, you know, I think she. She's in favor with the White House, even if I think she's kind of struggling in other ways.

[Sam Stein]

All right, so that leaves two short

[Tim Miller]

ways this house inhabit. Struggling.

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, Candace is dinging her and, you know, there's kind of a revolt. I think she's losing a bit of the grip on the Maha movement.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, that leaves two people. So I'm just going to go through two sort of like originals, honestly. There's Chris Ruffo and Jack Posic.

[Will Sommer]

Chris Ruffo, I think he's. He's on Trump's good side because he's against the woke. Right. Type people. He's kind of, you know, I don't know, he's kind of split. Maybe let's put him in the middle. And then Jack Vesobic, you know, loyal member of the Pentagon press corps. He's. He's kind of like they're trying to push him into the Candace camp. I think he's trying to straddle this line, and he's been getting under some pressure, but I think, you know, what about him? Well, he was calling for foreign agents on in MAGA media to be arrested. So. So, yeah, I mean, I think he's on Trump's good side, man.

[Sam Stein]

I don't know about that. I feel like he's in the middle.

[Will Sommer]

Put him in the middle. Put him in the middle.

[Sam Stein]

Fine. Fair enough. All right, Tim, good check.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, my list is tough, I gotta say, because they're all on the bad list for me. And I've come up with five. I've come up really with four, but maybe five that I could plausibly say right now. Their content is speaking to me.

[Sam Stein]

Okay.

[Tim Miller]

The number one, I have to say, James Lindsay, who you aforementioned, he went after the woke. Right. All of the right wingers hate him now. He's really. He's kind of a tragic figure. He's kind of a frumpy, lumpy man with a lisp. And like, all of the other content creators are dumping on him. But, like, his points are kind of right most of the time lately, at least in his critique of his fellow MAGA commentators. So I've been. I just want to give James Lindsay an attaboy because nobody else is also on my good list. Okay. We need to put some words in between good list. And that name I'm going to say next. So we're going to talk a little bit. We're going to talk about this. We're going to say, like. And we're just judging this based on, well, charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent. No, we're judging this on comedy stylings, on their content creation and commitment to voting for the Democrats in the midterms. And that would be Nick Fuentes, he's the only one on the list that's going to vote for the Democrats in the midterms. And I got to tell you, bad person, Very bad person. If you're a young, impressionable male, do not watch his content. If you are somebody who has. Who has, you know, is confident in your beliefs. Watching Nick Fuentes make fun of the people that call in to ask him questions is pretty good material. Like, he's really on the people that call into his own show. And you can kind of tell he hates his life now and he hates the other gripers. Oh, we're gonna get. I enjoyed that. I enjoy that.

[Sam Stein]

This is like that tweet where you never have to hand it to isis. This is like a very.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, okay. Well, I did it. I put a lot of words in there. It's gonna be a tough clip for people. Joe Rogan, I think, was at the White House. Don't like that. Don't like that. But, yeah, he was there for the reasons of supporting psychedelics, which I do like. And he's been criticizing Trump lately, making fun of the MAGA boys for being dweebs. So I put him on my good list. Eliza Schaefer. Every picture of him I see lately, he's with a twinkle.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

So I don't exactly know what's going on with him, but he's got a twink army. And as long as that's basically.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, he's basically European at this point.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. As long as that is a consensual thing. I support him in his journey house and habit I had is also on the list. Just because she seems like a tragic figure.

[Will Sommer]

She was reading my book recently, so

[Tim Miller]

I think that's okay.

[Will Sommer]

Great.

[Sam Stein]

Put her on the good list.

[Tim Miller]

I could think about something nice to say about those five that are 13 left on the list, and I really couldn't come up with anything. Were there any other nominees for the other 13 to put in the good list?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, we had other nominees there. So we did. Well, the three. The three Fox people we had that we were going to talk about again, the whole point was like, are they on Trump's good list? But you've. You've reverse engineered this.

[Will Sommer]

We've reframed.

[Sam Stein]

Was Hannity was one.

[Will Sommer]

Greg Gutfeld was another worse.

[Tim Miller]

And then.

[Sam Stein]

And then the third was. Who do you remember? Well, it was Hannity, Gutfeld, and Jesse Waters.

[Will Sommer]

Oh, Jesse Waters.

[Tim Miller]

Also worse. So my question is, who else would you put in my, you know, in a category of you just got to say something Nice about them. You could just do this. Can you come up with one nice sentence about anybody for me? Elijah Schaefer in the twink army. Joe Rogan and psychedelics. James Lindsay bring against the woke. Right.

[Sam Stein]

I'm gonna have one. Yeah. Megan Kelly, my girl.

[Tim Miller]

You think she's hot or.

[Sam Stein]

No? No, no. But she has been like. She's been liking a few of my tweets recently.

[Tim Miller]

She's been liking your tweets?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I've noticed. Megan.

[Tim Miller]

She's been liking.

[Sam Stein]

Keep the likes coming, Megan. I like the likes, but I would love an RT more.

[Tim Miller]

I don't have to hand it to her. The likes are secret. They feel like they can secretly do it.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I know. I'm noticing.

[Tim Miller]

I'm noticing.

[Sam Stein]

Megan, thank you.

[Tim Miller]

I appreciate secret likes. Okay, that's. I can't put her in my circle of trust. But. But that's. That's a good six down.

[Sam Stein]

That's fine. All right, I'm just gonna go quick, quick run through. And for the original idea here, what would Trump think of these people? And I'm just gonna go through list and I'm gonna go where Will and I kind of settled. Rogan, Mushy middle. Shapiro. Like. Tucker. Hate. Candace, Hate. Benny Mushy middle. Tim Pool. Mushy middle. Nick Shirley. Like. Megan. Hate. Jack Bobic middle. Alex Jones. Hate. Laura Lumer. Love. Lavin, Love. Fuentes, hate. Schaer. What do we say with Shaffer? He has no.

[Will Sommer]

Not sure who he is.

[Sam Stein]

Clay. Clay Travis. Likes Rufo. Middle house and habit. We decided. What? I forget.

[Tim Miller]

Likes, likes.

[Sam Stein]

James Lindsay. We said middle loves. Oh, loves Lindsay. And Megan Kelly hates. Okay, we went through list. Tim, you cued this up very nicely when you're giving your love. Festive Nick Fuentes.

[Tim Miller]

That's not right. I did not do that. I did not do that. It was not that. I had some narrow points. He's voting for the Democrats. And when he makes fun of the other gripers, it's funny. Okay, that's it. A lot of other bad traits.

[Sam Stein]

Don't clip it.

[Tim Miller]

A lot of other really bad traits. Bad person.

[Sam Stein]

Steve Guest is going to clip it, make fun of you, go off on you, whatever. All right. He hates his own fans. Nick, like, truly finds them physically repulsive. So Will's latest, False Flag. I was reading. I was laughing, but because at first I was like, this is so obnoxious of Nick Fuentes. Basically, these guys go on CNN to defend Groip prison, and Nick Fuentes attacks him for being ugly. But then I did take A look at this dude's shoes.

[Will Sommer]

They're like kind of like tan box loafers.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I admit it, Sam. It was your tweet I saw before I read the whole article, which is good, but, like, I started reading the tweet, you know, it's like, you don't want to laugh. You don't want to hand it to him. But it's. The tweet went like this. Two Nick Fantas fanboys went on CNN to defend him and groiperism. Like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Fantas responded not with gratitude, but with disgust. And how heavy one was over the clunky taupe loafers he was wearing. I just, like, spit tagged on my couch. Okay, that's goody. That's. That's funny.

[Sam Stein]

It was pretty funny, but. And I couldn't tell if he was serious, honestly. Well, like, do you think Fuentes was being serious?

[Will Sommer]

Oh, yeah, I think he's totally serious. And I mean, you know, in the story, we talk about how this griper now who. They're calling him CNN griper. I mean, he had to. He had to. He put all these videos out saying, you know, okay, guys, I know all the death threats are coming in, but I'm a real griper. I got into it about a year ago. I've read Mein Kampf and I'm gonna read 1984. And then all these, like, the hardcore groipers, because he kept defending himself in all these chat rooms and stuff, and all the hardcore grapers were like, I can't wait till you get docs. So, oh, my God.

[Sam Stein]

I think there's a larger. There's larger point here, which I thought was really. Actually kind of insightful, was that, like, there's this tension here where you're supposed to represent the perfect race, and all your followers are just not perfect, to put it gently. They're not.

[Will Sommer]

That's right. Well, as Nick Fuente said, if you have a BMI over 25, you know, you can't claim to represent me.

[Tim Miller]

You know, it's a tale as old as time hitting your own fans. I was watching Funny Kings of Leon interview one time. Kind of indie rock band, all rock band. Their first record was very popular in, like, music nerd circles. And then their subsequent records were more like kind of radio play stuff that'd be on when we were walking through Walmart. And they're like, we got excited. We started. We started to sell bigger venues out, and then we got there to the first venue on tour, and I looked down at the front row and it's like a fat middle aged person and dad jeans and mom jeans dancing and we. And then I started to get bitter and you know, they came back around the other side and came to appreciate the ugly fans that they had and, and I don't. I hope that doesn't happen to Nick Fuentes because I kind of want the torment to really envelop him.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I, I don't think there's any concern that, you know, he, he's about to really grow a heart for the, the less, the, the, the, the less appealing.

[Tim Miller]

Griper.

[Sam Stein]

No. Well, we love our fans. Just to be clear, regardless of your BMI or you know, how you feel about our content, as long as you're paying subscribers, we love you.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I like some more than others. I guess I would say, you know, compliments the people that do compliments I like better. But yeah, you know, teach. Everybody is special in their own way.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Okay. Well fellas, this was fun. We should do it more often. I missed it. As I said before we leave, I just want to do a little programming. Note, as I mentioned up top, we have these live shows coming up in San Diego and Los Angeles next month. The tickets are on sale right now. It's going to be great. Tim's there, I'm there. Sarah Longwell's going to be there. These shows are awesome. They're so fun. People genuinely have a good time and we take a lot of audience Q A. It should be a real blast. So if you can't get around and get a ticket, please do so. You can get them at the Bulwark Slash events. Again that's up in San Diego.

[Tim Miller]

The Bulwark.com events. The Bulwark.com events.

[Sam Stein]

Just making sure you're paying attention, Tim. The Bulwark.com events, San Diego in LA later this month. Will Tim. Take care, buddy.

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