Bulwark Takes – Law Enforcement Says ICE & DHS Are Making Policing Worse

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: January 31, 2026
Host: The Bulwark Team (w/ Tim Miller guesting)
Episode Theme:
How active and retired law enforcement officers perceive the impact of ICE and DHS operations on traditional policing, their profession, and recent high-profile shootings.

Episode Overview

The episode centers on reactions from two focus groups of law enforcement officers—Trump-voting and Kamala Harris-voting cops—regarding ICE’s influence on policing and recent controversial police shootings in Minneapolis. The Bulwark team, led by the host and guest Tim Miller, breaks down how these officers' perspectives reveal deep internal frustration with ICE's methods, differences by political orientation, and the challenges today's officers face amid heightened public scrutiny.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting Up the Focus Groups

• Challenge: Organizing honest police focus groups is difficult due to professional scrutiny and current tensions ([01:00]).
• Composition: Participants included federal officers, beat cops, corrections officers—both Trump and Harris voters ([01:00]).

2. Predicting Differences Between Groups

• Tim Miller’s Insight: Expected Harris-voting cops to be more critical of ICE and the shootings, Trump-voting cops more defensive or cautious ([02:41]).
  • “My guess is that the Harris voting cops are across the board say that like they acted inappropriately…” — Tim Miller ([02:41])
• Confirmed: The groups largely aligned with Tim’s expectations ([03:09]).

3. Harris-Voting Officers on ICE & Policing

• Impact on Policing:
  • “ICE has single handedly set police back easily 50 to 100 years... The amount of community involvement... like we had people in that community that were absolutely terrified when ICE moved in.” — Law Enforcement Officer 1 ([04:03])
  • “Because what one badge does, everybody gets blamed for it.” — Law Enforcement Officer 1 ([04:03])
• ICE as Political Tool:
  • “I think ICE is really being used as an enforcement arm of the current administration against political enemies or people that they view as enemies…” — Law Enforcement Officer 3 ([04:31])
• Critiques of Tactics & Attire:
  • Described ICE as adopting a “cowboy ass mentality,” covered by the system so they don’t fear repercussions ([05:00]); suggested ICE should be “dismantled” and rebuilt ([05:00]).
  • Criticized officers covering faces: “Law enforcement is supposed to be part of the community and it's absurd to cover your face…” — Law Enforcement Officer 3 ([05:42])
• Professional Identity:
  • Strong sense of pride and duty in policing, frustration at being conflated with ICE ([06:27]).
• Empathy for Victims:
  • Harris group members could “put themselves in the position of the people who were shot,” unlike Trump group, which identified more with officers ([06:50]).

Notable Quotes

• “When I jump out of my truck, I got people running... because they think ICE is here and I'm not ICE, but they see a uniform and now I'm, I'm ICE…” — Law Enforcement Officer 1 ([06:27])
• “This is not the mission... it's absurd how they're doing it...” — Tim Miller, summarizing officers’ emotion ([07:37])

4. Discussion of the Minneapolis Shootings

Harris-Voting Cops Perspective

• Complexity & Nuance:
  • Unanimous that both shootings were wrong, but willing to discuss procedural mistakes (“you are trained specifically not to put your body in front of a car” ([09:43])).
• Training Concerns:
  • Criticized ICE agents for poor training/preparedness in high-stress scenarios; officers emphasize that “you are trained in how to deal with stress … to keep your stress down … even in heightened and stressful situations” ([18:41]).
  • Upset by lack of professional attire and poor tactical presentation; pride in proper uniform ([18:41]).
• Emotional Toll:
  • “That's never what you want to do in your life is take another human life unless you absolutely have to.” — Law Enforcement Officer 1 ([14:43])
  • Emotional discussion, including officers feeling personally affected by the controversies ([15:57]).

Use-of-Force Analysis

• “That first shot, maybe... I could understand... But the next two shots through the open window into her head. Can't see how that's justified.” — Law Enforcement Officer 5 ([14:05])
• Addressed excessive use of force against peaceful protesters: “The response to someone standing 30ft away blowing a whistle and videotaping you… isn't pepper spray and smoke bombs.” — Tim Miller ([16:26])

5. Trump-Voting Officers’ Perspectives

• Reluctance to Rush to Judgment:
  • “Don’t Monday morning quarterback... I've been there, done that.” — Law Enforcement Officer 2 ([22:06])
  • Frequent caveats and avoidance of definitive stances (“Was the shooting justified? I can't answer that because I don't know what was going on in that scrum.” — Officer 2 ([23:32]))
• Legal Framing:
  • Focus on “totality of the circumstances” and legal precepts for force ([24:18]).
• On Public Narrative & Evidence:
  • Responded to release of prior suspect videos with skepticism but saw their function as providing “context”—sometimes used to justify or diffuse blame ([25:08], [26:04]).
• Second Amendment Stance:
  • Acknowledged gun carrying legality but described it as “unwise” to bring a weapon into heated situations ([28:18]).
• Defense of Masks:
  • Cited fears of doxxing/family safety; justified face coverings more than Harris group ([31:48]).

6. Media & Political Context

• Administration Propaganda:
  • Tim Miller: Administration tactics mirror classic “impeach the witness” legal strategies—releasing info to seed doubt and muddy straightforward situations ([26:04]).
• Leadership’s Influence On Police Culture:
  • Host insight: Leadership cues (from politicians, dept. heads) shape on-the-ground policing culture and behavior, especially among less experienced staff ([34:23]).
  • Lack of respect for administration figures like Kristi Noem among both groups; Harris-group comments were especially negative ([31:48]).

Memorable Quotes & Moments

“ICE has single handedly set police back easily 50 to 100 years.” — Law Enforcement Officer 1 ([04:03])

“It's absurd to cover your face... If you don't want to get doxed... don't do things that are going to bring negative attention and threats to you.” — Law Enforcement Officer 3 ([05:42])

“The two shots to the side of the head to the side window were wrong. To me, that gives that testimony a lot of credibility because ... it's what you're trained to do, which is not unload your clip but to be judicious.” — Tim Miller ([16:26])

“Was the shooting justified? I can't answer that because I don't know what was going on in that scrum.” — Law Enforcement Officer 2 (Trump group, [23:32])

“You weren't drafted into this job. This isn't compulsory service. ... But you decided to go into this job and other people put themselves at risk.” — Tim Miller ([33:27])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:00] – Focus group setup and recruiting challenges
• [04:03] – Harris cops’ raw critiques of ICE
• [05:00] – Officer calls for ICE to be dismantled
• [06:27] – ICE’s impact on community trust and police morale
• [12:48] – Harris group on Minneapolis shootings: empathy, training, and professionalism
• [14:05] – Analysis of use-of-force and officer emotional struggles
• [18:41] – Discussion about police training and professionalism in attire
• [21:23] – Trump group perspectives: caution and caveats
• [24:18] – Legal precepts on deadly force
• [26:04] – Tim Miller unpacks media/proganda strategies using new evidence
• [28:18] – Second Amendment, wisdom of carrying arms to protests
• [31:48] – Both groups’ negative views on Kristi Noem; mask/doxxing debate
• [34:23] – The influence of leadership and political rhetoric

Final Thoughts

• Professionalism vs. Political Pressure:
  • Both groups emphasized the importance of leadership and professionalism, but ICE’s tactics and political cover are viewed deeply negatively by Harris-voting officers and uneasily by Trump-voting ones.
• Empathy & Division:
  • Harris cops show more public empathy for victims; Trump group demonstrates more professional caution and deference to procedure.
• Common Ground:
  • Universal concern about officer safety, doxxing, and the rate of hasty judgments—from politicians and public alike.
• Training and Accountability:
  • All agree on the urgent need for better training and transparent accountability in policing practices.

Episode tone: Candid, at times emotional and frustrated, a serious reckoning with both pride in law enforcement professionalism and the ways ICE/DHS and national politics are disrupting community policing and officer morale.
Recommended for: Those seeking to understand real law enforcement perspectives on ICE, the erosion of public trust, internal police culture divides, and the role of leadership in shaping officers’ behavior during crises.