Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – LIVE: JVL & Heather Cox Richardson SHRED the GOP’s Fake “Conservatism”

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: JVL (Jonathan V. Last)
Guest: Heather Cox Richardson, historian and professor at Boston College

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode examines the evolution of American conservatism, dissecting how the modern GOP—particularly its MAGA faction—has diverged from traditional conservative principles. Host JVL and historian Heather Cox Richardson discuss the historical roots of conservatism, the shift toward radicalism and authoritarianism, and debate whether the current state of the party was inevitable. They also explore the role of race, gender, and capitalism in shaping today’s political polarization, and reflect on how America can navigate these crises.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Responding to Media Criticism and Misinformation

• [03:08] JVL gives Richardson space to clarify controversy regarding her public comments about the Charlie Kirk shooting.

  • Richardson explains her cautious, evidence-based approach in historical writing.
  • Notable backlash came from people twisting her words out of context.
  • Quote:
    “There is not any attempt there at all to engage with the actual ideas in the pieces I wrote ... but to paint me as this far left conspiracy theorist who is trying to attack the memory of Charlie Kirk. ... It just kind of reeks, to be honest.”
    — Heather Cox Richardson [05:42]

• [06:32] Both agree on the importance of waiting for verified evidence before speculating on motive in public crimes.

2. Distinguishing Conservatism from Radicalism

• [08:32] Richardson draws a sharp line between “political conservatism” and the reactionary movement using the conservative label.

  • Traditional conservatism: Focus on stability, gradualism, and preservation of core institutions.
  • Modern “conservatism” (radical right): Seeks to destroy governmental structures and reject democracy.

• Historical Overview:

  • The “conservative manifesto” of 1937 formalized backlash against the New Deal.
  • Early post-New Deal coalition included business, racial segregationists, and religious traditionalists.
  • Religious right became dominant in shaping modern GOP from the 1960s onward.
  • The actual term “movement conservatism” emerged in the 1970s.

• Quote:
  “Today’s radical right is trying to destroy the government. That is not a conservative position. ... That’s not an ideologically conservative position.”
  — Heather Cox Richardson [11:19]

3. The Intellectual Roots of Conservatism

• [11:17-15:14] Richardson traces conservative political philosophy:

  • Edmund Burke: Advocated maintaining societal stability and adapting policies to what works—not ideological rigidity.
  • In American history, “conservatism” as a term took root post-1850, with Lincoln invoking it as adherence to the Declaration of Independence, in opposition to pro-slavery radicals.
  • Eisenhower era: Mainstream Republicans accepted elements of the New Deal, focusing on stability and gradualism.

• Quote:
  “That idea of conserving the pieces that are important and then moving forward based not on an ideology, but on what works and what doesn’t … is a really important concept for understanding how a government should or should not work in the United States.”
  — Heather Cox Richardson [13:08]

4. The Movement Toward Radicalization and Authoritarianism

• [17:55-20:14] JVL presses on the MAGA Republican transformation:

  • Past GOP sought smaller government in rhetoric, but focused on protecting certain interests.
  • Currently, MAGA-driven politics is openly hostile toward democracy, aiming for domination and permanent control, often through Christian nationalism.

• Quote:
  “What they are looking to do is…replace [democracy] with an extraordinarily powerful government, … to impose on the rest of us Christian nationalism, which is about as far from conservatism as you can get.”
  — Heather Cox Richardson [19:44]

5. Was This Inevitable?

• [20:14-25:18] Debate: Was MAGA-ism and anti-democratic radicalism an inevitable endpoint?

  • Richardson insists that nothing is inevitable.
  • The Cold War’s end, she theorizes, removed a unifying fear that held together a pro-democracy consensus, enabling factions to focus energy on defeating “liberals” at home and prioritize party over democracy.
  • Republican radicalization accelerated under Gingrich and continued as loyalty shifted from country to party and profit.

• Quote:
  “I think maybe [the end of the Cold War] really is what began the slide toward creating a party in which people were loyal to their party above their country. … And then of course, that loyalty to party and to money-making … forced it to continue down that road.”
  — Heather Cox Richardson [24:44]

6. The Role of Polarization, Race, and Sexism

• [25:18-33:15]

  • JVL emphasizes party polarization and the ideological “sorting” post-1965 Voting Rights Act.
  • Richardson highlights the deep, often underappreciated, role of sexism as well as race.
    • Patriarchal attitudes and the backlash against gender equality are central to MAGA's politics.
  • Both reflect on how realignment—from the GOP absorbing reactionary southerners—set the stage for current divisions.

• Quotes:
  “I am … gobsmacked at how little discussion we have … about the role of sexism in promoting MAGA Republicans. … That idea that men should dominate their wives is a way to bring that political polarization into every single household.”
  — Heather Cox Richardson [30:11]

  “Republicans have become the party of men to a large degree; Democrats, party of women. Did you see that coming?”
  — JVL [31:28]

7. Lessons from History / Fixing What’s Broken

• [33:34-38:34]

  • JVL asks how these political and societal problems can be solved.
  • Richardson is cautiously optimistic, pointing to history:
    • Previous eras of crisis saw renewal by returning to “fundamental human principles”—consent, equality, opportunity.
    • Change comes not from top-down solutions, but broad recommitment to democratic ideals and collective action.
  • Building new civic communities and values suits America’s tradition during historical inflection points.

• Quote:
  “The script is actually pretty easy, it seems to me ... people have reclaimed a democracy and rebuilt a healthier nation ... when we return to those fundamental principles … we create communities that require a new set of lawmakers who make that world happen.”
  — Heather Cox Richardson [35:34]

8. The Oligarch Problem and Hope

• [38:34-40:49]

  • JVL raises concerns about media and social platforms being controlled by oligarchs aligned with authoritarian interests.
  • Richardson agrees this is a major threat, but emphasizes the resilience of the American people and contingency in history: “the future is unwritten.”
  • American society, even during its most authoritarian periods, has shown that resistance and change are possible.

• Quote:
  “As long as you and I are still here talking, there's still hope.”
  — Heather Cox Richardson [40:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There is not any attempt there at all to engage with the actual ideas … but to paint me as this far left conspiracy theorist … It just kind of reeks, to be honest.” — Richardson [05:42]
• “Today’s radical right is trying to destroy the government. That is not a conservative position.” — Richardson [11:19]
• “Maybe [the end of the Cold War] really is what began the slide … where faith in American democracy ceased to be the defining feature of our lawmakers, and loyalty to party became the central piece.” — Richardson [24:44]
• “I am … gobsmacked at how little discussion we have … about the role of sexism in promoting MAGA Republicans.” — Richardson [30:11]
• “The script is actually pretty easy, it seems to me: return to those fundamental principles … we create communities that require a new set of lawmakers who make that world happen.” — Richardson [35:34]
• “As long as you and I are still here talking, there's still hope.” — Richardson [40:32]
• JVL closes with: “Hope must have the last word.” [40:49]

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |-----------|--------------------------------------------| | 03:08 | Richardson clarifies Kirk shooting comments | | 08:32 | History of conservative movement | | 11:17 | Burkean vs. American conservatism | | 17:55 | MAGA and the destruction of democracy | | 20:14 | Was this outcome inevitable? | | 25:18 | Role of polarization and the Cold War | | 29:49 | Polarization, race, and sexism | | 33:34 | Can we fix this? Lessons from history | | 38:34 | The oligarch problem and hope | | 40:32 | “There's still hope” |

Tone and Style

• Conversational, analytical, historically grounded
• Richardson brings a scholarly yet accessible approach (“you know, humans got a human, right” [35:05]).
• JVL balances skepticism and optimism, peppered with pop culture references and self-deprecation.

Takeaway

This episode pulls back the curtain on the right’s claim to “conservatism,” exposing a deep divide between Burkean ideals and today’s MAGA-driven authoritarianism. Through history, Richardson argues the tools for renewal are always available in our foundational principles—if enough Americans are willing to reassert them. The result is ultimately a message of cautious hope.