Bulwark Takes – "Lutnick Lied About Epstein. Why Don't Republicans Care?"

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: February 10, 2026
Hosts: Sam Stein (B), Katherine Rampell (C)

Overview

This episode examines newly uncovered evidence about Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick's extensive and friendly ties to Jeffrey Epstein, contrasting Lutnick's past denials with facts from recently released files. The hosts discuss the lack of political or professional consequences for Lutnick, the tepid response from Republicans, and how this attitude reflects a broader normalization of impunity in US politics. The conversation explores the differences in accountability between the US and other nations affected by the Epstein scandal, and the implications for public trust and governance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lutnick’s Proven Ties to Jeffrey Epstein (01:24–04:45)

• Lutnick’s Denial:
  • Lutnick previously insisted he had cut all ties with Epstein after 2005, claiming:
    • "I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy. If that guy was there, I wasn’t going because he’s gross." (B, 01:36)
    • "Yeah, that’s my story. A one and absolutely done. That’s pretty explicit." (B, 02:30)
• Evidence Contradicts Lutnick:
  • As detailed by Katherine, the files reveal multiple ongoing contacts, including:
    • Planned family trip to Epstein’s island in 2012.
    • Joint investment in a private company in 2013, with signed documents.
    • Epstein donating $50,000 in 2017 to an event honoring Lutnick.
    • 2018 correspondence about property near their homes.
  • Summary:
    • "So to recap, Lutnick said didn’t have any contact with him socially for business or even philanthropy. And all three of those things have shown up in the files released thus far." (C, 04:33)

Lack of Accountability and GOP Response (04:45–10:59)

• Minimal Pushback Within the GOP:
  • Sam notes that there’s no professional consequence for Lutnick, especially from within his own party:
    • "The charitable interpretation … is that business venture, that was sort of a Cantor Fitzgerald thing. … Fine, whatever. But they were living next to each other. They clearly knew each other." (B, 04:45)
    • "In a lot of other times and certainly other societies, this would be … cause for real pressure to resign." (B, 05:28)
• Calls for Resignation:
  • GOP Congressman Thomas Massie is the rare Republican demanding resignation:
    • "'No, he should just resign. … There are three people in Great Britain that have resigned … for less than what we’ve seen Howard Lutnick lie about. … If this were Great Britain, he’d already be gone.'" (D [clip], 08:08–08:48)
  • Democratic pressure exists but is weak; Adam Schiff has also called for resignation (B, 08:48).
• Republican Leadership Deflects:
  • Oversight Chair James Comer resists hauling Lutnick to testify:
    • "'We don’t want to do anything to jeopardize the five that we have on the book. … We’ll see what happens here, and we’ll move forward.'" (D [clip], 09:25–09:37)
• Why Not Cut Lutnick Loose?
  • Fear that removing Lutnick for lying would draw attention to other prominent figures’ Epstein ties (Musk, Bannon, RFK Jr.):
    • "If you give up Lutnick, it obviously raises the question … you have to cut ties with Elon Musk. Right. Or you can’t be talking with Steve Bannon." (B, 09:37)
  • Katherine: "You could say we’re drawing the line at the fact that he lied, right? That he lied to the President. … But they don’t care." (C, 10:14)

The Culture of Distraction and Impunity (10:14–13:36)

• Flooding the Zone:
  • Katherine references Steve Bannon’s "flood the zone with shit" strategy:
    • "...we’re flooded. We're dead. Like we're drowned already." (C, 10:59)
  • Sam: In normal administrations, scandals distract from agendas; here, “it's just a whole bunch of shit all over the place.” (B, 12:44)
• No Priority Policy Messaging:
  • The Trump administration seems to have no policy to focus on, only endless, overlapping controversies.
  • "I think it just — it doesn’t exist in quite the same way." (C, 13:12)

Contrasting Global Responses to Epstein Links (13:36–16:34)

• Global Consequences for Similar Ties:
  • In the UK, Prime Minister Keir Starmer’s job is at risk over others’ contacts with Epstein.
  • UK Ambassador and Slovakian National Security Advisor lost their jobs over Epstein ties.
  • Investigations are underway in Norway, Poland, and Turkey.
  • Even the Dalai Lama put out a denial tweet (uncertain authenticity).
  • "This could bring down the British government." (B, 14:43)
• Occasional Corporate Fallout in the US:
  • Brad Karp, chair of Paul Weiss law firm, resigned, but such cases are rare.
  • Giants owner Steve Tisch is under NFL investigation due to "very crude" emails (B, 16:18).
  • Goldman Sachs' Kathy Rummler still retains her position despite public embarrassment over ties.
• Summary:
  • "We live in increasingly … a consequence-free society where … our political leadership has calculated that if you just … ride out the scandal, you probably will survive it." (B, 16:34)

The "Dig In and Survive" Mentality (17:22–19:36)

• The Trump–Cohn Playbook:
  • Katherine: "That was the lesson that I think Donald Trump learned from Roy Cohn… if in fact he had just dug in his heels and said, no, I’m not going anywhere." (C, 17:22)
  • Sam notes the Access Hollywood tape as famous proof:
    • "Everyone’s saying, you gotta go, you gotta go. And he said, fuck. And he was right." (B, 17:40)
• Democrats’ Dilemma:
  • Trump and allies can’t be shamed out, but Lutnick poses a potential liability:
    • "He may become a big enough problem for the administration if in fact you have more investigations, you have … more to it than just that he lied." (C, 17:47)
• Why Pressure Still Matters:
  • If Democrats keep beating the drum, it may cut through the noise:
    • "It’s not just Trump who was palling around with Epstein. It was … the Epstein class administration. … A cabal of these elites who thought they were bulletproof, who thought they can do things with impunity." (C, 18:36)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Lutnick’s Alibi:

• "Yeah, that’s my story. A one and absolutely done. That’s pretty explicit."
  — Sam (B), 02:30

On New Revelations:

• "All three of those things [social, business, and philanthropy] have shown up in the files released thus far."
  — Katherine (C), 04:33

On International Standards:

• "There are three people in Great Britain that have resigned … for less than what we’ve seen Howard Lutnick lie about. … If this were Great Britain, he'd already be gone."
  — Thomas Massie (audio clip, D), 08:08–08:48

On the Bannon Model of Politics:

• "Steve Bannon said, flood the zone with shit. I’m saying in that sense, we’re flooded. We’re dead. Like, we’re drowned already."
  — Katherine (C), 10:59

On Conspicuous Impunity:

• "At least our political leadership has calculated that if you just sort of stay put and survive the scandal … you probably will survive it."
  — Sam (B), 16:34

On the Lesson from Roy Cohn:

• "That was the lesson that I think Donald Trump learned from Roy Cohn. ... That's what Donald Trump does. That’s what everybody around him does."
  — Katherine (C), 17:22

On the Broader Rot:

• "It starts to look a lot more like what it is. Which was basically a cabal of these elites who thought they were bulletproof, who thought that they can do things with impunity."
  — Katherine (C), 18:36

Important Timestamps

• Howard Lutnick’s outright denial of ties: 01:24–02:30
• New evidence of contact post-2005: 03:16–04:33
• Analysis of GOP response, Massie’s clip: 07:20–08:48
• James Comer’s passive answer on hearings: 09:25–09:37
• Broader explanation of why Republicans (and others) won’t cut him loose: 09:37–10:14
• Bannon's ‘flood the zone’ and impunity: 10:59–13:29
• Global fallout examples: 13:36–15:43
• Corporate accountability (or lack thereof): 15:43–16:34
• Roy Cohn, Trump, and weathering scandals: 17:22–17:47
• Implications for Democrats and public perception: 17:47–19:36

Tone & Language

• Conversational, sarcastic, and at times exasperated.
• Heavily critical both of Lutnick’s dishonesty and the willingness of political actors to ignore ethical lapses.
• Full of pointed references to the cyclical nature of scandal, the normalization of misbehavior, and the broader culture of impunity.

Takeaway

The episode powerfully illustrates the lack of political or professional accountability in American government when it comes to figures like Howard Lutnick with clear, documented ties to Jeffrey Epstein—even as such scandals produce serious fallout abroad and in some corners of the private sector. The discussion underscores how damaging this impunity is for institutions and trust, and the crucial but uphill role of watchdogs and the opposition in keeping the pressure on.