Manosphere Bros Turn on Trump. Mocked Over Epstein Lies

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Episode Summary Episode Title: Manosphere Bros Turn on Trump. Mocked Over Epstein Lies
Release Date: July 14, 2025
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Description:

<blockquote>The news cycle doesn’t slow down, and neither does The Bulwark. Bulwark Takes brings you bite-sized takes on the news of the day from the entire Bulwark team, including Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, and Bill Kristol, and more.</blockquote>

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Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Tim Miller and Andrew Schultz delve into the evolving dynamics within the manosphere, particularly focusing on the shifting support towards former President Donald Trump. The discussion highlights the disappointment among certain segments of the manosphere, exemplified by personalities like Andrew Schultz from the Flagrant podcast, as they grapple with Trump's recent actions and controversies surrounding Epstein.

Manosphere’s Initial Support for Trump

Tim Miller opens the conversation by emphasizing the significance of the manosphere's support for Trump, noting that it extends beyond the traditional "red hatted cult" followers. He states:

"Trump's political success is built not just on the red hatted cult people."
— Tim Miller [00:34]

Andrew Schultz adds that approximately 30% of the voting population, particularly younger, cross-racial men with anti-establishment and libertarian leanings, were instrumental in Trump's rise. These individuals viewed Trump as a disruptor challenging the status quo:

"He saw Trump as kind of this challenge to the status quo."
— Andrew Schultz [00:58]

Areas of Disappointment

Despite the initial support, Schultz and Miller express growing disillusionment with Trump's policies that contradict the promises made during his campaign.

Foreign Policy and Military Engagement

One of the primary areas of contention is Trump's approach to foreign policy. Initially, Trump successfully branded himself as someone eager to withdraw from prolonged military engagements, appealing to millennials disillusioned by wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. However, recent actions, such as the decision to send weapons to Ukraine, have undermined this stance:

"There'll be people that'll DM me and be like, you see what your boy's doing? I voted for none of this."
— Shane Gillis [02:35]

Andrew Schultz acknowledges his support for aiding Ukraine but underscores that Trump has deviated from his original promises:

"I'm not one of these people that is like hoping that Trump stops the wars or whatever."
— Andrew Schultz [04:04]

Spending and Economic Policies

Miller and Schultz discuss Trump's handling of fiscal policies, particularly his track record on spending. They highlight that Trump has not fulfilled his promises to cut government spending, which was a key appeal to many in the manosphere:

"Trump was never going to cut spending. Does he even actually really care about spending?"
— Tim Miller [03:19-03:25]

Immigration

Another critical issue is immigration. While initially advocating for stricter immigration controls, Trump's recent flip-flops on the topic have caused frustration among his supporters:

"Trump is ... flip-flopped on that, which I kind of like."
— Shane Gillis [02:58]

Both hosts note that the handling of immigration remains a significant concern for the manosphere, with Trump's current policies not aligning with their expectations.

The Epstein Controversy and Mockery

A pivotal moment in the episode revolves around the manosphere's reaction to Donald Trump's alleged connections with Jeffrey Epstein. Schultz shares clips from the Flagrant podcast where hosts mock Trump regarding Epstein-related allegations.

Mocking Trump’s Innocence Claims

Shane Gillis, a guest on the Flagrant podcast, vehemently defends Trump against Epstein accusations, portraying him as innocent:

"Free Ghislaine. She has been wrongly imprisoned."
— Shane Gillis [05:43]

However, Tim Miller counters this by asserting:

"No, he's a pedophile."
— Tim Miller [06:03]

This exchange underscores the deepening rift within the manosphere, where support for Trump is being re-evaluated in light of serious allegations.

Mockery Leading to Disillusionment

The hosts highlight that the mocking tone towards Trump regarding Epstein indicates a broader disillusionment:

"These guys are mocking Trump ... that's something that's hard to come back from."
— Tim Miller [06:15-06:23]

Andrew Schultz echoes this sentiment, expressing frustration and the beginning of a potential departure from unwavering support:

"Like, this is Schultz and his bros, like, mocking Trump. Like, fuck you. You think I'm an idiot?"
— Andrew Schultz [06:35-06:40]

Internal Fractures and Future Outlook

The episode explores the implications of this growing skepticism within the manosphere. Schultz suggests that such mockery and criticism could lead to a fragmentation of support, with independent thinkers distancing themselves from the base's more extreme elements.

"Like, you're trying to make me seem dumb, right? ... That's not us, independent thinkers."
— Andrew Schultz [06:39-07:03]

Tim Miller anticipates that as Trump continues to alienate segments of his initial support base, particularly those disillusioned by his foreign and domestic policies, the stability of his coalition may weaken:

"He's alienating them. He's alienating them and they're mocking him."
— Tim Miller [10:49]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with an emphasis on monitoring these internal shifts within the manosphere. Tim Miller and Andrew Schultz commit to continuing their engagement with these evolving dynamics, emphasizing the importance of understanding the fractures within Trump's support base.

"We are going to keep watching that. I'm going to keep trying to engage with folks in this world."
— Tim Miller [10:53]

Key Takeaways

• Initial Support: The manosphere's support for Trump was rooted in his anti-establishment rhetoric and promises to challenge the status quo.
• Areas of Disappointment: Key issues such as foreign policy, spending, and immigration have led to growing dissatisfaction among supporters.
• Epstein Controversy: Allegations and debates surrounding Trump's connections with Epstein have intensified criticism and mockery within the manosphere.
• Internal Fractures: Mockery and disillusionment signal potential fragmentation of Trump's support base, with independent thinkers distancing themselves.
• Future Implications: The stability of Trump's coalition is in question as he continues to alienate segments of his initial supporters.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Trump's political success is built not just on the red hatted cult people."
  — Tim Miller [00:34]

• "I want him to shrink spending, reduce the... But he's increasing it. It's like everything that he said he's going to do except sending immigrants back."
  — Shane Gillis [02:25]

• "There's so many photos of them chilling... Are you in on it? To me, you get. You're getting to a bad place."
  — Tim Miller [09:08]

• "You're the fucking idiot if you think you can pull this one over on us."
  — Andrew Schultz [06:49]

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the Bulwark Takes episode, detailing the nuanced discussions between Tim Miller and Andrew Schultz about the shifting allegiances within the manosphere and the implications for Donald Trump's political influence.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody, Tim Miller from the Bulwark here. Trouble in paradise over in the manosphere. Big Daddy Trump is disappointing some of his little boy toys, particularly Andrew Schultz over at the Flagrant podcast. And I want to go through a.

[Andrew Schultz]

Couple of these clips because I think.

[Tim Miller]

They'Re, they're pretty important. And you know, if you guys been.

[Andrew Schultz]

Following us here at the Bulwark, make sure to subscribe to the feed.

[Tim Miller]

You've heard me say this before, I care about these guys the most. Because Trump's political success is built not just on the red hatted cult people.

[Andrew Schultz]

That are going to the rallies that will scream and cheer no matter what he says and does. Right.

[Tim Miller]

There's a disturbingly large portion of the country that fits that bill.

[Andrew Schultz]

Maybe 30%, I don't know, but, or.

[Tim Miller]

30% of voting population.

[Andrew Schultz]

But he needed to gain with other groups.

[Tim Miller]

And like the main group that he.

[Andrew Schultz]

Gained with was kind of a cross racial group of relatively younger men, like basically my age and younger.

[Tim Miller]

And, and these guys, a lot of these guys, they're anti establishment. They, you know, they, they're a little bit of a don't tread on me kind of ethos. There's like a little bit of libertarianism.

[Andrew Schultz]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

And they saw Trump as kind of.

[Andrew Schultz]

This challenge to the status quo and.

[Tim Miller]

And they bought in. Obviously, I think that was stupid.

[Andrew Schultz]

Obviously I think that there was like.

[Tim Miller]

Decades of evidence he was a con man. But that said, these guys are depending on who we're talking about.

[Andrew Schultz]

They range from people that are gettable.

[Tim Miller]

For the Democrats in the future to, you know, maybe they just kind of.

[Andrew Schultz]

Go back to being folks like don't really vote that much. Like Trump engaged a lot of people that weren't part of the process, which again would be a net plus for Democrats. We want everybody to vote, but you know, better vote for nobody than for a fascist.

[Tim Miller]

So anyway, I want to play a couple of these clips. It centers on Epstein.

[Andrew Schultz]

So we're going to get to Epstein in a second.

[Tim Miller]

But I want to first play the clip from the Andrew Schultz Flagrant podcast that engages more on some other non.

[Andrew Schultz]

Epstein related concerns that they have with Trump.

[Shane Gillis]

I believe when Trump, everything he campaigned on, I believe he wanted to do and now he's doing the exact opposite thing of every single fucking thing.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know what he's done. Yeah, exactly to your point, if you tell me, it's easier for me to believe you wanted to do all these things if any of them were happening in the way that you said they.

[Shane Gillis]

Were to that point There'll be people that'll DM me and be like, you see what your boy's doing? You voted for this. I'm like, I voted for none of this. He's doing the exact opposite of everything I voted for. I want him to stop the wars. He's funding them. I, I want him to shrink spending, reduce the. But he's increasing it. It's like everything that he said he's going to do except sending immigrants back, and now he's even flip flopped on that, which I kind of like. But he's like, oh, well, we kind of need the people working in restaurants and we need our farmers.

[Tim Miller]

All right, so that's, this is danger zone, right? Like, these guys are like, you're not following up on what we delivered on. You're not giving me what we vote, what I voted for right now. Some of these things like, like, should this guy thought the Trump was going to cut spending?

[Andrew Schultz]

What, like, where were you?

[Tim Miller]

Trump was never going to cut spending.

[Andrew Schultz]

Okay.

[Tim Miller]

Does he even actually really care about spending?

[Andrew Schultz]

I find that very hard to believe. But we'll set, we'll set that, we'll set that aside.

[Tim Miller]

The wars, I think is key. They really did.

[Andrew Schultz]

Trump successfully branded himself as somebody that was like, not part of the military industrial complex. It was going to get us out of wars. Rebranded the Republican Party, I think open doors to people to vote for Republicans that hadn't in the past because they are disillusioned, particularly folks that are about like a millennial age disillusioned with what they'd seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Tim Miller]

And here Trump is today, as I'm.

[Andrew Schultz]

Taping this, he's announcing that he is actually giving weapons to Ukraine, which I support, by the way.

[Tim Miller]

I'm not, I'm just to be 100%.

[Andrew Schultz]

Clear, I'm not one of these people that was, that is like hoping that Trump stops the wars or whatever.

[Tim Miller]

I think the US Plays an important.

[Shane Gillis]

Role in the world.

[Tim Miller]

You're here at the Bulwark.

[Andrew Schultz]

All right, I was a neocon two.

[Tim Miller]

Seconds ago, so I think it's great.

[Andrew Schultz]

That he's doing the Ukraine stuff. We had a robust conversation about the Iran element choice here at the Bulwark. Israel, we have differing views here at the Bulwark.

[Tim Miller]

These guys, though, they don't want us.

[Andrew Schultz]

To be involved with Israel.

[Tim Miller]

They don't want us to be giving money to Israel, they don't want us.

[Andrew Schultz]

To be bombing Iran, they don't want us to be giving weapons to Ukraine.

[Tim Miller]

And Trump's doing all of It. And so if you're sitting from their.

[Andrew Schultz]

Shoes, they gotta be looking at this and being like, how is this better than Biden? This feels worse, actually, than what the Democrats would have done as far as engaging America abroad militarily.

[Tim Miller]

So I think that's a legitimate. I think that we can use that as a tent pole. Foreign policy is a legitimate area where.

[Andrew Schultz]

These guys in the manosphere feel let down by Trump.

[Tim Miller]

And when I would go to Turning.

[Andrew Schultz]

Point USA events and I'd ask young.

[Tim Miller]

Men, like, what was bringing them there, kind of no wars was something that.

[Andrew Schultz]

Came up a lot.

[Tim Miller]

This is not. This is not like a third or.

[Andrew Schultz]

Fourth or fifth issue for these guys, like spending or whatever.

[Tim Miller]

Like, this is something they care about. Trump letting them down right now, that.

[Andrew Schultz]

I think is notable.

[Tim Miller]

You also hear him mention the immigration stuff. That being the one area where Trump's falling through. They're going through a little bit. He's falling through a little bit too much for them. I think that's another thing to continue to watch.

[Andrew Schultz]

We've talked about that a lot here. Okay, now I want to go to.

[Tim Miller]

Epstein, a couple different clips, but first.

[Andrew Schultz]

From the Schultz podcast. This is great.

[Shane Gillis]

Free Ghislaine. She has been wrongly imprisoned. She was convicted. Guilty of something that clearly never happened. Never happened. After the FBI's incredible research, shout out to cockeyed Cash Patel. That mother was looking at the documents double time. And he was 100% certain that there was no RICO charges, no foul play.

[Tim Miller]

No, he's a pedophile.

[Shane Gillis]

But with just him.

[Tim Miller]

But only him.

[Unknown Speaker]

Thousands of girls. Just him.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, the guy's busy.

[Unknown Speaker]

And that list that they said that they had was a list of one name.

[Shane Gillis]

Guys, what the hell is going on? We owe a lot of people an apology.

[Tim Miller]

This is also important. These guys are mocking Trump, withering, mocking on a issue that they have cared.

[Andrew Schultz]

About and talked about a lot on their podcast.

[Tim Miller]

That is something that's hard to come back from, right? Like, disagreeing. I'm a little disappointed now.

[Andrew Schultz]

They're like, no, I'm mocking you.

[Tim Miller]

Fuck you. You are.

[Andrew Schultz]

Like, you're.

[Tim Miller]

You're trying to make me seem dumb, right?

[Andrew Schultz]

Like you think I'm an idiot.

[Tim Miller]

Basically, like, this is Schultz and his bros, like, mocking Trump. Like, fuck you. You think I'm an idiot? I'm going to troll you now.

[Andrew Schultz]

You're the fucking idiot if you think you can pull this one over on us. There's nothing to see here. Like, that tone is, to me, kind of like the first step towards being like, I'm out of here.

[Tim Miller]

Right. Like, I'm not going to be made.

[Andrew Schultz]

To feel like a fool on your behalf. That's. That's not me. That might be some of your guys over the base. That might be Marjorie Taylor Greene. That's not us independent thinkers. Us heterodox independent thinkers at the Flagrant podcast. So that I think is important.

[Tim Miller]

Similarly, I've got another clip of mocking coming here now. This is Shane Gillis. Shane has been more, you know, I.

[Andrew Schultz]

Mean, Shane is basically a lib, I.

[Tim Miller]

Think, like, he is a lib that like to make fun of Democrats.

[Andrew Schultz]

Right. And.

[Tim Miller]

And, you know, had some Trumpy traits or, you know, feelings that he talked about. So this guy. So Gillis is maybe like a step.

[Andrew Schultz]

Over from Schultz as far as kind of where they are, you know, politically. Not. Wouldn't be surprising for Gil to be the first one off the train.

[Tim Miller]

But again, just in this tone of, like, how they're reacting to the Epstein news. Like, just watch the way that these.

[Andrew Schultz]

Guys are just withering in their mockery of Trump over this.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's insane that they're just being like, yeah, no, no, everything was cool.

[Andrew Schultz]

Above board.

[Unknown Speaker]

No worries. Like Trump dog.

Yeah.

It's tough not to point some fingers. Huge question. You got killed while you were president.

Yeah.

And you were there. You got. I mean, there's so many photos of them chilling.

Allegedly hung with a staff.

The cope on Trump's innocent is pretty intense. Yeah, he did go to the island and he just hung out with the staff. Dude. The staff said. That was the staff 12.

[Andrew Schultz]

There's the thing.

[Unknown Speaker]

They were never going to release it.

[Andrew Schultz]

That's.

[Unknown Speaker]

That was like, it became apparent. Like, they're not like, oh, those, those trillionaires.

[Andrew Schultz]

You see him.

[Unknown Speaker]

Somebody brought it up at a meeting and Trump was like, are you guys still talking about Epstein? It's like, that's crazy. There's so much other stuff going on. I can't believe you're bringing up Epstein. Are you serious? God, get a life. You guys are obsessed with this.

[Tim Miller]

What the.

[Unknown Speaker]

No one even cares. Yeah. So long ago the guy killed himself and he was innocent.

[Tim Miller]

What the hell?

[Unknown Speaker]

They're probably all sexual blackmailed.

[Tim Miller]

So these guys are taking it the next step, not just mocking Trump, but being like, are you. Are you in on it? Like, he got killed when you were president. Are you in on it? To me, you get. You're getting to a bad place. All right? When cash is getting mocked, when Trump is getting mocked and these guys are, you know, putting on tinfoil hats when they're accusing Trump of being the person that killed Epstein. Like, this is, if you combine it with the wars, combine it with some of the concerns around immigration and particularly.

[Andrew Schultz]

Kind of these don't tread on me.

[Tim Miller]

Concerns, like the libertarian concerns about immigration.

[Andrew Schultz]

Like, these guys are happy with the deportations, but like, the way, the manner.

[Tim Miller]

In which they're going to throw all those things together. And Trump has, like, put together an administration that does appeal to kind of like the Wall Street Journal, John Thune, Republican senator crowd like the old, the boomer Republican Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street Journal reading Republican who kind of reluctantly voted for Trump. Trump's done some things that they would like, right? I mean, he's doing the tax cuts, Ukraine, but like the whole package of stuff. What is he offering these guys, like the new guys to his coalition, the people that were kind of like the energy for bringing in new folks to MAGA and getting Trump over the hump?

[Andrew Schultz]

He's alienating them. He's alienating them and they're mocking him.

[Tim Miller]

So we are going to keep watching that. I'm going to keep trying to engage.

[Andrew Schultz]

With folks in this world, so stick around for that.

[Tim Miller]

Subscribe to the feed. We got so much coming for you, much happening. I got a little tan going. I'm back in my hole. Stick with us.

[Andrew Schultz]

We'll see you back here soon.