Mark Kelly: 23 Million Americans Are About to Get Punched in the Face

Summary

Bulwark Takes: “Mark Kelly: 23 Million Americans Are About to Get Punched in the Face”

Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Sam Stein (Managing Editor, The Bulwark)
Guest: Senator Mark Kelly (Arizona)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Sam Stein interviews Senator Mark Kelly to dissect urgent national issues: the legality and motivations behind U.S. military actions in the Caribbean (particularly involving Venezuela), shifting immigration enforcement tactics, the government shutdown’s devastating impact on millions of Americans’ health care costs, and the Democratic Party’s present-day messaging and political future. Senator Kelly provides candid, at times blunt, assessments rooted in his military, intelligence, and legislative experience.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. U.S. Military Strikes in the Caribbean: Legal and Strategic Concerns

[01:00–10:54]

• Strikes on Alleged Drug Boats: The U.S. reportedly conducted four kinetic strikes in the Caribbean, killing 14, targeting what the administration claims were drug trafficking vessels. Details remain sparse and shrouded in secrecy.

• Senator Kelly’s Skepticism: Having sat on both the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees and drawing on his Navy background, Kelly is unconvinced by the administration’s legal rationale for these actions.

  “They have tried to explain to us how designating these groups as terrorist organizations allows us to just go and conduct kinetic strikes and kill them. I don’t think I’ve seen anything like this... For us to make a decision that something is clearly a law enforcement action, and the US Military is making a decision to just eliminate these people — we should arrest them.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [02:32]

• Blurring Legal Boundaries: Kelly stresses that these Caribbean actions lack the clarity and legitimacy accorded during declared wars and involve risk for U.S. military personnel placed in ambiguous, undefined situations.

  “Not fair to the members of the military that have to do this, right. That have to pull the trigger... Not once did I say to myself, hey, I wonder if this is an illegal order...”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [04:21]

• Transparency Issues: The administration is not providing Congress or the public with transparent explanations.

  “The administration is not being transparent. Not being transparent with the public... and is trying to skirt the law on this.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [04:00]

• Motives: Drug War or Regime Change?: There is confusion over why Venezuela is being targeted, as most fentanyl flows through other routes. Kelly notes speculation that regime change is a hidden motivation, cautioning against repeating U.S. interventionist mistakes.

  “I do think it would be a positive thing to see regime change, but us trying to impose it on them, I think we’ve got to be really careful about that... Our history with regime change is not good.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [07:20]

• Congressional Oversight Hamstrung: Kelly doubts Congress will act meaningfully to check or authorize such overseas military activity, blaming partisan inaction, with an exception for Senator Rand Paul.

  “We won’t have one [a vote] because the Republicans will not stand up to this president. They just won’t. Rand Paul is... on an island all by himself right now with regards to Venezuela.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [10:16]

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2. Domestic Policy: Immigration Enforcement Shake-Up

[10:54–14:56]

• ICE and Border Patrol Role Changes: The administration is swapping out ICE field officers for Border Patrol agents, potentially escalating controversial enforcement actions in cities like Phoenix (Kelly’s home state).

• Training and Accountability Risks: Kelly expresses concern over Border Patrol taking on responsibilities they’re untrained for, predicting more chaotic and potentially unlawful immigrant enforcement.

  “The problem with this is you’re now going to turn over a complicated operation to somebody who isn’t trained to do this. ICE is actually trained to do this... If you start turning some of this leadership over to the Border Patrol... you’re going to have even more problems.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [11:39]

• Prepared to Respond Legally: Local Arizona officials are alert to the risk of overreaches and are willing to pursue legal action against any federal violations.

  “If any federal government organization oversteps its legal authority, it is within the right of the state to file a lawsuit and contest this in the courts and we will be prepared to do that.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [14:56]

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3. Government Shutdown & Looming Health Care Crisis

[15:11–20:35]

• Stalemate and Blame: With the government shuttered and no deal in sight, 23 million Americans face massive increases in health care premiums as of November 1. Kelly accuses the administration and Congressional Republicans of political hostage-taking.

  “The President and his Republican minions in the Congress are holding the American people hostage essentially over their healthcare costs... 23 million Americans who on November 1st are going to get punched in the face with a skyrocketing health care bill.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [15:42]

• Skyrocketing Premiums: Some Americans, especially in Alaska and Arizona, are facing four-digit monthly increases (e.g., $600 to $4000/month).

  “People in Alaska are going to see those increases. We’re going to see people with increases of 2, 300, 400%.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [17:05]

• Political Resistance: Kelly is pessimistic that Republican leaders will break with the President, voicing doubt about any firm bipartisan solution—or that future agreements would even be honored in good faith.

  “He [John Thune] does what Donald Trump lets him do. That’s it. Same with Mike Johnson. So they’re not independent actors at this point.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [20:35]

• Vow to Keep Fighting: Despite skepticism about the administration’s trustworthiness and tactics, Kelly pledges to continue advocating for affected Americans.

  “We’re going to keep fighting for the American people all the way to the end of this administration. That’s what we’re doing now.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [20:47]

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4. The Democratic Party’s Path Forward—Messaging, Moderation, & Electoral Success

[20:59–25:20]

• Perceptions of Drift Left: Referencing a new report, Stein probes Kelly on whether the Democratic Party’s focus and image have grown out of touch with voters. Kelly advocates for pragmatism, moderation, and focus on “bread and butter” issues.

  “I don’t like the crazy shit that the people all the way on the left say, and I don’t like the crazy shit the people on the right say. And I think most of the American people are somewhere in the middle.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [22:05]

• Moderation Wins: Kelly argues that moderates win competitive elections and urges Democrats to avoid divisive cultural battles in favor of practical concerns like personal finance and safety.

  “If you want to win competitive elections, stay away from the crazy stuff. Focus on the things that the American people care about... They care about their personal financial security and the security of their family.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [22:15]

• Space Program—Personal Passions vs. Priorities: Joking with Stein, Kelly admits even his beloved NASA doesn’t top the average voter’s list—what they want is stability and security.

  “What the American people care about is paying their rent and their mortgage and putting their food on the table, maybe taking their kids on a vacation, having healthcare, having a safe community to live in...”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [23:28]

• Primary Politics—Accountability and Opportunity: On the Maine Democratic Senate primary, Kelly acknowledges enthusiasm, insists on accountability for past online posts, but notes a real opportunity for a moderate Democrat to unseat Susan Collins.

  “There’s a lot of enthusiasm and in Janet Mills, we’ve got a great opportunity there... There’s also going to be a primary pretty, pretty clear about that.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [24:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On regime change:

  “Our history with regime change is not good... Who’s in charge in Afghanistan now? The Taliban, you know, the group that we tried to throw out and did successfully for a period of time. It cost a lot of American lives, cost a lot of money...”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [07:20]

• On federal overreach in immigration:

  “We do not want to see what’s happening in LA and Portland and Chicago happening in Phoenix... We’re going to have a response if they start doing things that are against the law.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [14:24]

• On party messaging:

  “Stay away from the crazy stuff. Focus on the things that the American people care about.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [22:15]

• On health care ‘punch’:

  “There are 23 million Americans who on November 1st are going to get punched in the face with a skyrocketing health care bill.”
  — Senator Mark Kelly [15:42]

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Timestamps for Major Topics

• 00:00–01:00: Advertisements and intro
• 01:00–10:54: Caribbean strikes, legality, regime change speculation, military transparency
• 10:54–14:56: Immigration enforcement, ICE/Border Patrol roles, state-level responses
• 15:11–20:47: Government shutdown, health care impacts, negotiations impasse, trust in administration
• 20:59–25:20: Democratic Party identity, voter perceptions, primary politics, moderation vs. extremism
• 25:20–end: Outro and advertisements

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Tone and Language

• Candid and Direct: Senator Kelly does not mince words, criticizing both his own party and the opposition.
• Grounded in Experience: References to military command, legislative process, and personal outreach with constituents.
• Focus on Bread-and-Butter Issues: Persistent return to real-world impacts—financial security, law, and public safety.
• Pragmatic, Non-ideological: Emphasis on moderation and common sense over party or ideological extremes.

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This episode is essential listening for those tracking U.S. foreign affairs, domestic politics, the future of health care, and the cross-currents shaping the 2026 elections. Senator Kelly’s mix of inside knowledge and plain talk provides clarity in a tumultuous moment.

Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Hey, everybody, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark, and I am pleased to be joined by Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. Thank you so much for doing this, Senator Kelly. Really appreciate it you are joining us. It's Tuesday. It's October 28th. It's 12:15. About an hour ago, we got word that the United States has made another strike in the Caribbean, this time four strikes, actually, with the reported 14 killed. Again, this is allegedly targeting drug boats, but we just don't know what's going on with respect to the this operation. You were pretty outspoken over the weekend about what you think is dubious legality around this. And I'm just sort of curious if you can walk us through what actually you have been told by the administration and why you feel as skeptical as you feel about the legality of these operations.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I sit on the armed services and the intelligence committees. We've been briefed on both of these strikes, obviously in a secure facility. So I'm not going to go into great detail on this. But, you know, I will say, let me start by saying I think we all want the same thing. We do not want drugs coming into our country, especially fentanyl, but other drugs as well, cocaine or anything else that's getting trafficked from South America into the United States. So that's the goal. Traditionally, we've done this through law enforcement actions. The Coast Guard does this sometimes in support with the Navy. Like the Navy can conduct some Operations with Coast Guard people on board because they're law enforcement. What the administration is doing. They have tried to explain to us how designating these groups as terrorist organizations allows us to just go and conduct kinetic strikes and kill them. I don't think I've seen anything like this. Well, I know I haven't in my lifetime. I spent 25 years in the United States Navy. For us to make a decision that something is clearly a law enforcement action, that the US Military is making a decision to just eliminate these people, we should arrest them. They should have an opportunity to defend themselves in court, and we should prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. When they release those two guys after the kinetic strike, the two survivors, what does that say? Either they weren't trafficking drugs, or maybe they didn't. They didn't feel like they had the legal authority to do that strike and decided to repatriate them back to the country. So.

[Sam Stein]

Well, we have a third option too, right? Which is they detain them. And then somehow that would be the logical. And. But then somehow those. Those two detainees release some sort of information that is not what the administration wants out there in the public. Right.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

The administration is not being transparent. Not being transparent with the public. I know I can say this based on what I've been briefed. Not being completely transparent and is trying to skirt the law on this.

[Sam Stein]

I know you can't get into what you've been briefed, but when you say they're not being transparent, what are. Can you speak in generalities about what they're not sure.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

So, yeah, those routes from Venezuela to Caribbean islands are used to traffic cocaine, typically.

[Sam Stein]

Okay.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

I think the American people understand where most of the fentanyl comes from. The precursors come from China, sometimes into the US and down into Mexico. And fentanyl pills come through the border, Right? Sometimes they come, you know, through on boats, but that's often in the eastern Pacific, on. Off the west coast of Mexico, not through the Caribbean. It's not what we've seen typically. So what they're doing, it's. It's also not fair to the members of the military that have to do this, right. That have to pull the trigger. I've. I've sunk. Sam. I've sunk two ships in my career. During the first Gulf War, as part of my 39 combat missions, I sunk a OSA 2 missile patrol boat in Kuwait harbor. I sunk a Polakne troop carrier off the Iranian coast, almost in Iranian waters. It was part of a war we declared War against Iraq for their illegal invasion of Kuwait. Not once did I say to myself, hey, I wonder if this is an illegal order to put these two ships at the bottom of the sea. It was never a question. As soon as we confirmed who this was, that this was the Iraqi military. I wonder what's going through the minds of these guys.

[Sam Stein]

We don't know necessarily what's going through the minds of these guys, but what we do know is that the admiral who was heading the US Southern Command overseeing the military operations in the Caribbean, Alvin Hulsey, he resigned or he announced he was going to retire in December 2025.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Yeah. He did not complete his term in that job, which is incredibly rare. Very rare.

[Sam Stein]

Have you had any outreach with him? Do you plan on trying to have any outreach with him to get maybe a sense of what he saw or why he decided to retire?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

I've been trying to reach out to him.

[Sam Stein]

And have you been successful?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Not successful.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. Yeah. The other question that's kind of hovering over all this is, is why Venezuela? As you noted, it's not necessarily, probably not logically the center for any sort of fentanyl trade, maybe for cocaine. But there is some recent data and reporting to suggest that the administration has had, or people in the administration have had their eyes on regime change there. And then we have this very sort of cryptic story that emerges yesterday from the Maduro regime where they say, well, we saw we detained a, a covert CIA unit. I'm not going to put stock in necessarily what the Maduro regime is saying, but what is your sense or intuition about why this administration is so hellbent on Venezuela and what maybe their overall, overall or overarching goal is here?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Hey, Maduro's a bad guy. He's, he's incompetent. Chavez, they're both criminals to some extent. I mean, they're not. They're not good people. And I do think it would be a positive thing to see regime change, but us trying to impose it on them, I think we've got to be really careful about that. Just think about recent U.S. history. South Vietnam, Cuba, know, the Bay of Pigs, Iraq, Afghanistan. Who's in charge in Afghanistan now? The Taliban, you know, the group that we tried to throw out and did successfully for a period of time. It cost a lot of American lives, cost a lot of money, you know, for us to do this. So our history with regime change is not good.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

The administration, you know, has said they would like to see somebody else, you know, running Venezuela. I would, too. I just don't think this is the way you do it. And covert CIA operations as well. Forcing it on a country is. It's not making us more safe.

[Sam Stein]

But is that, is that your sense of what they are trying to facilitate or is it something a little bit different like for instance, access to oil or.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, they, they, I mean they're bigger, they're a bigger, a huge exporter of oil. They've got incredible energy reserves. But the administration hasn't said that. They've talked about their, they've mentioned the regime change part of this, which I just think is very short sighted. You can't predict how these things are going to go. And should we really be in the business of, you know, starting wars to kick, you know, kick out leadership we don't like? I, I'd love to see Maduro go. Sending the Ford Battle group to the Caribbean and flying B52s and B1Bs up and down the coast with the idea that at some point we might invade or start connect doing some kinetic strikes on land. That's an escalation that I think just takes us in the, in the wrong direction.

[Sam Stein]

So you, you are outspoken about this on the Republican side. Rand Paul's been extremely outspoken on this. Taken a lot of arrows, in fact from the administration over that. What is the actual likely role, if any, that Congress, assuming that the government reopens, will play in trying to at least put some guardrails on this or manage it or authorize it. What do you see the role here for the Senate and for the Congress?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, we should have a vote on a, on any kind of hostile activities we take against countries, especially when they go on for an extended period of time.

[Sam Stein]

Should, should have a vote is different than will, obviously.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

That's right. And we won't have a vote. I don't think we'll have a vote. We could try to force a vote like go unanimous consent on the floor, you know, goofy Washington, you know, stuff like this, which is kind of, kind of a vote. We won't have one because the Republicans will not stand up to this president. They just won't. Rand Paul is a, you know, recent example, but he's on an island all by himself right now with regards to Venezuela. And they, many of my Republican colleagues, they, they lost their backbones in January of this year.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I want to switch to domestic stuff. The news last night that broke was that the administration is replacing a number of ICE field officers with Border Patrol agents. The sort of CliffsNotes version of it is that this actually is likely to ramp up the type of activities that we've seen that have gone viral. Confrontations in schools, around churches, Home Depots, things like that. One of the cities where the field officer has been replaced is reportedly Phoenix, which is in your state of Arizona. I'm curious both for your thoughts on what's happening here and if you've gotten any explanation from the administration about what's to come in Phoenix.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I will say, you know, ICE is rather unpopular now, right? In a lot of different areas. I have good relationships with the ICE guys in the leadership in Phoenix and Tucson and Arizona and have worked with them. The problem with this is you're now going to turn over a complicated operation to somebody who isn't trained to do this. ICE is actually trained to do this. They're overstepping their boundaries for sure and creating a lot of problems across the country and mass deportations and ripping communities apart. They should not be doing this. But this is what this administration wants them to do, right? Well, now the next step is if you start turning over some of this leadership to the Border Patrol, which is not trained in this work, I think you're going to have even more problems. And what we've seen is in conducting some of this immigration enforcement activities across the country, more of the problems happen when it's Border Patrol doing it.

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[Senator Mark Kelly]

Prepping for this change?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Or I guess for a ramp up in operations in general.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Yeah. We do not want to see what's happening in LA and Portland and Chicago happening in Phoenix.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

You know, that's for certain. And we're going to pay close attention to it. And I know the governor is thinking about this a lot and Chris Mays is too, our attorney General. And you know, we're going to have a response if they start doing things that are against the law.

[Sam Stein]

Response being something legal like, like what's happened in Oregon where they said no, you can't.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

If, if any federal government organization oversteps its legal authority, it is within the right of the state to file a lawsuit and, and contest this in the courts and we will be prepared to do that.

[Sam Stein]

This is all happening obviously as the government remains shut down. As I alluded to, there was some question about whether the federal workers union saying, hey, we need to resolve this, take the short term continuing resolution because we're not getting paid and we have members literally in food pantries. Whether that was going to move Democrats into supporting a clean continuing resolution, it's 24 hours later. It does not appear to have moved. Democrats. Can you explain where the party's thinking is on this?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, the President and his Republican minions in the Congress are holding the American people hostage essentially over their healthcare costs. They control the House, the Senate, the White House and they've refused to negotiate on this. Mike Johnson has sent all his Republican members on a six week paid vacation. To date, they haven't been back here in six weeks. They have abdicated their responsibilities under the Constitution. They do not, they do not go into session. They're not doing their jobs. Part of their job is to negotiate with us on how do we protect these families. There are 23 million Americans who on November 1st are going to get punched in the face with a skyrocketing health care bill. I've spoken to many of them. In Arizona, they're going to be people that are paying 250 or 300 are going to be paying 11 or 1200 in some states. If you're of a certain age group, it's worse. In Alaska, there are people I talked to my colleague Lisa Murkowski about this because I heard about this kind of as an I thought was kind of a rumor. And I said to Lisa, I said, hey, is it true that people are getting letters saying their health care premium is going to go up from $600 to $4,000 a month? No.

[Sam Stein]

Come on.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

She said, yes, that is true. That people in Alaska are going to see those increases. We're going to see people with increases of 2, 300, 400%.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

And these people can't afford it, so they drop their health care and then they're one illness or injury away from bankruptcy or their kid. I mean, some of these families I've spoken to, their kids get their health care through the Affordable Care act will have no health care insurance anymore. So the president is holding these people hostage and it's because he gave that big giant tax cut to millionaires and billionaires and this is the way he decided to pay for it.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I mean, well, so that's the Medicaid cuts, there's the health enhanced Obamacare premiums. Those two things are at the forefront of the demands when November 1st hits. How do you, and I hate to bring this back into the realm of politics, but because this is a standoff here, how do you imagine that this changes the dynamics of this standoff, which is now it's real. People have actually gotten the letters in the mail saying your premiums are up 200%. Do you think that's going to encourage Republicans to say, okay, we will actually talk to you about some sort of way to elongate the enhanced Obamacare premiums?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Yeah. I don't know what the president's exact schedule is, but he'll be back from this trip here in a few days. And then November 1st rolls around pretty quickly. And I imagine he's going to start hearing from people, people he knows. And he, you know, he spends a lot of time on Twitter, so he's probably going to see on Twitter all this is starting to come out about how much people are going to have to pay and how it's going to affect his approval and he's not going to be happy about it. And then all he needs to do is to tell John Thune to negotiate something and come up with a fix for this. He said he wanted to deal with this issue before he left. Actually, it was a few weeks before he left. He said he wanted to deal with it. So deal with it. I mean, we all want the same thing.

[Sam Stein]

The only other thing I have to ask on the government shutdown is because it's sort of out there in the background. But for me, it's always difficult to see how Democrats can negotiate a deal with you. And even if you put aside health care, let's say you resolve it and you get some sort of deal knowing that this administration believes in empowerment, knowing that it believes in rescissions, knowing that they're perfectly comfortable saying, okay, we cut a deal with you on a 60 vote threshold, but we're going to take back portions of that deal on a 50 vote threshold. I don't see how you can sign off on any deal without a commitment of some sorts for them not to do rescissions. And yet that doesn't seem to be the main folk. Main point of emphasis for Senate Democrats in these negotiations.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Sam. I mean, what can we trust this administration with? This is a guy who wants $230 million from the treasury of the taxpayers money. Well, I know this is a guy that's who, who has, who has made billions of dollars off of meme coins and crypto and, and sneakers and is just grifting continuously on the American people now with a direct line right into the bank account of all the taxpayers at the Treasury. Give me $230 million. Of course we can't trust them.

[Sam Stein]

I get that. But this is an actual example of the administration saying, okay, thank you for the agreement we had. We're gonna now undo it on a party line vote. Is there not a way to get some sort of commitment from Thune or someone else to say we will not pass a rescissions package? That's not a commitment from Thune. Yeah, well, they have to vote on it.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, he, I mean, he does what Donald Trump lets him do. That's it. Same with Mike Johnson. So they're not, they're not independent. They're not independent actors at this point. So.

[Sam Stein]

All right, last question.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

We're going to keep fighting for the American people all the way to the end of this administration. That's what we're doing now. We don't want to see people's lives ruined by these premium increases.

[Sam Stein]

Fair enough. My last question for you is there's A new report out just gets at the same exact thing that Democrats have been dealing with, which is, did the party drift too far left? If not, maybe in policy, then in rhetoric. This report which just came out, it basically says that voter perceptions of Democrats have basically evolved to the point where they believe that Democratic Party is just out of touch, that they emphasize non economic matters, that their focus is on things that don't actually materially benefit the voters themselves. You obviously are in the thick of it. And you of course were right there as a potential VP choice for Kamala Harris. And during that you were regarded as a sort of like, you know, centrist minded, or at least, you know, common sense national security guy who, um. Just big picture, like where. How do you feel the party stands right now compared to where it was after the election loss? Do you think it's moving in the right direction? And what kind of reforms or maybe rhetorical adjustments do you think still need to be made?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, let me just start by saying I don't like the crazy shit that the people all the way on the left say, and I don't like the crazy shit the people on the right say.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, fair enough.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

And I think most of the American people are somewhere in the middle. And we can get a lot more accomplished folks in the middle working together, Democrats and Republicans, bipartisan. We do that in the Senate. It's actually done a lot more than people think because the controversial stuff is followed. I think we need more of that. And I think it's also important to recognize where do we win? Competitive elections, when elections are really competitive, tends to be moderates that win. So if you want to win competitive elections, stay away from the crazy stuff. Focus on the things that the American people care about. They care about their personal financial security and the security of their family. They care about their safety before anything else. You know, I spent, I spent 25 years in the Navy. I spent a lot of a good amount of that time at NASA. People kind of care about the space program, but it's way down the list. I mean, what do people. They really care.

[Sam Stein]

I know you, I know you wish you were higher on the list.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

I wish it was higher. It's not in anybody's top three. It's not even in my top three.

[Sam Stein]

No, don't say that.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

I have to say that. I mean, what the American people care about is paying their rent and their mortgage and putting their food on the table, maybe taking their kids on a vacation, having healthcare, having a safe community to live in. And then maybe beyond that, is making sure that we have a national security apparatus that can keep our country safe and that we don't wind up into in future wars.

[Sam Stein]

I think that's right. And they care about security both domestically and abroad. I think more domestically than abroad. And they care about economic, you know, just their plain economics. I'm wondering because it's become such a proxy for this debate, this what's happening up in Maine with this Democratic primary now, Janet Mills, Graham Plantner, you know, that is sort of a proxy for this debate where this, where Graham Platner's kind of burst onto the scene making these arguments. And obviously he's got a lot of controversial things in his bio that have surfaced recently. And then you have Janet Mills, who's got a great record but also is considered old, frankly.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Great. Yeah. But a great leader, well known, experienced.

[Sam Stein]

Right. What is your take on that race? But also sort of the idea that like, maybe we should be Democrats. Should be, I should say, willing to overlook these kind of old Reddit posts and social media postings if the guy has the right message and can drive gin up a good audience and get people behind them.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I think people have to be accountable for, you know, things, you know, in their past that they say and they, they do. I think what it says about Maine right now and says about the country is there's a lot of enthusiasm and in Janet Mills, we've got a, you know, great opportunity there. There's also going to be a primary pretty, pretty clear about that. And the folks in Maine are going to have to make a decision on who they want to run against. Susan Collins. Susan Collins has been pretty formidable, but I think right now is the, is a real opportunity for a Democrat to win a seat in Maine.

[Sam Stein]

All right. All right. Senator Kelly, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. I'm not going to tell anyone at NASA that they're not on your top three list, but it's okay. We'll figure it out.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Yeah. Thanks.

[Sam Stein]

Take care.

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