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- [00:00]
Lauren Egan
Hey, everyone, it's Lauren Egan here at the Bulwark. I've got Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass here with me today. And for some reason, Sam Stein is also here with us.
- [00:11]
Sam Stein
Part of the conversation.
- [00:13]
Lauren Egan
Yeah, it's Sam's birthday, so we have to be nice. He has to come. Got to say, yeah, what can I do? No, but in all seriousness, Mayor Bass, you've had a pretty tumultuous few weeks in Los Angeles with ICE raids, immigration raids, the National Guard being sent to the city. And just earlier this week, you had a bit of a confrontation with federal law enforcement who marched into a park downtown while a kids summer camp was going on. People were out playing on the soccer fields and had to clear the park. And just based off the videos that I've seen of it, it looked like a pretty scary and concerning show of force. And as that all happened, the head of the Customs and Border Protection in Southern California was talking to a reporter. He said that Los Angeles better get used to us now because this is going to be normal very soon.
- [01:05]
Sam Stein
Better get used to us now because this is going to be normal very soon.
- [01:09]
Lauren Egan
We will go anywhere, anytime we want in Los Angeles. That's a pretty, you know, intense thing to say. And I'm curious if you feel like this is just the new norm in Los Angeles and if you live in Los Angeles, that federal law enforcement presence is just something you kind of have to figure out how to coexist with as long as Trump is in office.
- [01:31]
Karen Bass
Well, first of all, happy birthday, Sam.
- [01:34]
Sam Stein
Thank you. I appreciate that.
- [01:36]
Karen Bass
And let me just say that I absolutely will not accept that this is the norm. What happened at MacArthur park was a performance. It was a show of force. It was someone saying that we are the federal government and if we choose to take power away from a governor or away from a mayor, this is the new normal. And my response to that is that I've seen this movie before. It used to be called a coup, and it happens in other countries. So this is the federal seizure of power from our governor, federalizing the National Guard, deploying them to Los Angeles when they were not requested, nor were they needed. And I think the idea that we should accept this, people being snatched off the street by masked men in plain clothes with vests on that it looks like they got from Amazon, Carrying guns and pulling people aside, no warrants, arresting them, detaining them. We don't know where they go. They have no contact with their families or with the law or with the legal counsel. What is this? You know, I think that we are the test case to see if Americans will accept this being the new normal. But they came to the wrong city to test it out. Because this could be a very divisive issue in a city. There is no division going on here. The city is standing strong and united. You don't see anybody running around with Trump flags going, yeah, yes, arrest those people. Even the Trump supporters who congregate pretty regularly in Beverly Hills, in front of the Beverly Hills sign. Yeah, there's nowhere, nowhere have they been seen. And I think that is sending a message. And I think it has been confusing to some Trump supporters who support his ideology, his anti immigrant ideology, but do not support the authoritarian tactics that are being used to implement that strategy.
- [03:46]
Lauren Egan
How has your view of the situation changed and evolved since it first started? Because when this first went down a few weeks ago, it seemed like you and Governor Newsom were caught off guard a little bit. We were all kind of surprised, but we're a few weeks into this. So how has your approach evolved in terms of how you handle it?
- [04:04]
Karen Bass
Well, first of all, you are correct. We were caught off guard 100%. If you had talked to me the day before, I would have been complimenting the administration for the fast recovery period from the wildfires. Palisades is the only area that is within the city of Los Angeles. And we've had, you know, with the recovery period, which is removing the debris and all has gone at lightning speed because of the amount of resources that came from the federal government. So to go from that on a Thursday to the raid that happened on a Friday was definitely a slap in the face. We weren't caught off guard. And then the seizure of power that came shortly thereafter. I think that because I believe that we are the petri dish for the nation, it is critical that we push back, that we not accept this. Could you imagine if we did? And then the federal government just decides they're going to take over cities. What do you need cities for? The federal government's just going to take over everything. But I do think it's important to talk about the truths because especially the women and men in the National Guard, those are people who are not full time soldiers, they're called when it's an emergency. These are young people who have to leave their families, they have to leave their education, they have to leave their jobs. To be forced to participate in a political stunt I think is really inappropriate and it's a disruption to their life that could cause long term harm. People lose their jobs. They don't Finish their coursework, don't get credit for a semester. There's consequences to this deployment and soldiers should not be props for anybody's reality show.
- [05:46]
Sam Stein
I want to pick up on what you said there. Critical that we push back and I'm going to break the fourth wall a little bit. Both you and Governor Newsom have, as I can see it, gone way more aggressive in terms of your media outreach and frankly, new media outreach. Early on, Gavin Newsom was on Twitter responding in real time. I mean, his staff was on Twitter responding in real time to criticisms. You've now taken a very proactive role. You're appearing on this program, but you've appeared on very similar programs. And I'm wondering if you can speak about the need to engage in the modern media climate in moments like this. Obviously your priority is going to be on what's happening in your city. But because of the prevalence of disinformation and misinformation, because so much of what's happening in politics is shaped by a continuous conversation, how much of your day to day is now spent trying to get messaging out, trying to reach people, trying to debunk what you think are smears?
- [06:44]
Karen Bass
Oh, I don't think it's a tremendous amount of my day, but then again, I don't work an eight hour day.
- [06:49]
Sam Stein
True, fair enough. But it's certainly more of your day than it would be.
- [06:52]
Karen Bass
Was. Yes, absolutely. And let me just tell you that that's going to continue because again, LA has to stand strong for the nation. So I have people, mayors from all over the country reaching out, wanting to know, is my city going to be next? How are you guys doing it? What strategies do you have, what works, what doesn't work? We got to get prepared. It's absolutely critical that when something is egregious, as this happens, you have to tell the world because number one, that's your safety, that's to help keep you safe, is for the eyes of the world to be looking in on this and to be calling it out for what it is. I think oftentimes one of the problems with the new media is there's so much noise that, you know, you, you rarely hear an analysis. And I think it's really important to look at history, to analyze what is going on, not just take it for the surface what. But this is a fundamental challenge to our democracy, to state rights. It sounds so funny for that to come out of my mouth and for local government. I mean, states rights used to be a Republican issue and it is whenever Democrats are in charge then state rights is very important right now. They could care less. They have succeeded all power. And I think if you look at the three CO/ government, it's for people to understand that those lines are very blurred right now. I mean, number one, they compromised the courts by making all of the ultra conservative appointments in his first administration. And the Supreme Court seems to do what he wants. The leader of the. The speaker of the House as well as the president of the Senate essentially handed their gavels over to the White House. So when I think of the co equal branches of the government, I think we have one branch of the government right now that is trying to flex its muscles to see how far they can push their power. That's an important issue not just for Los Angeles, but for the nation. And frankly, it's an important issue for the world, given that the world looks at us as the beacon of democracy. But I'm not sure how hard that light is shining these days when mayors.
- [09:06]
Lauren Egan
Reach out to you. What are you telling them in these conversations and what strategies are you telling them have worked in Los Angeles?
- [09:13]
Karen Bass
Well, one, keeping their city united. But, you know, we have to deal with the people because it's not just the strategies about the administration, it's the strategies about keeping the people whole. I mean, we have businesses that will probably close and won't have the ability to reopen. If you think of all of the restaurants and all of the businesses that cater to specific populations, like we have a whole Central American corridor, you know, and the people there, I mean, the, the workers want to go into work because they're afraid the customers don't want to come in. When I've had restaurant owners tell me that this is worse than Covid, can you believe that? Because people aren't ordering and people were ordering with COVID Now people are afraid about anybody coming to their house. This has had a severe blow to our local economy. We are a city that is dependent on immigrant labor and we have entire sectors of our economy. But what in the world does ICE get out of raiding car washes and Home Depot parking lots? Where are the cartel members there?
- [10:17]
Sam Stein
Do you tell these mayors, though? I mean, obviously you think, and I, I would agree with you, that the LA is a petri dish. But is your expectation, and do you tell your fellow mayors to expect that this will be duplicated in their cities?
- [10:33]
Karen Bass
No, I don't think so. No, I know that it is possible, but I don't tell them to expect that, but I do tell them to prepare in case and what preparations should they make, making sure that they have the legal resources? You know, a lot of cities, and then that's one way that we try to be helpful. In our county, in LA county, we have 88 cities. The majority of those cities, they don't have city attorneys. You know, we have a city attorney's office with hundreds of lawyers. And so providing that kind of assistance. What we've done is we've put lawyers on zoom calls so that making sure that the mayors in other cities know their rights, make sure that they distribute cards that inform people of their rights. Because a lot of cities, again, LA is used to dealing with this. A lot of other cities aren't. They don't have the immigrant organizations and institutions that we have here that have been functioning strong for the last four decades.
- [11:32]
Lauren Egan
So, you know, Los Angeles has a bunch of big events coming up. You guys have Summer Olympics, some World cup games. I think the 2027 Super Bowl. Trump's going to be in office for all of those events. How do you think about Trump's vindictiveness and the threat factor with him? And how do you weigh that in terms of how you push back against his administration?
- [11:57]
Karen Bass
Well, the bottom line is I have to defend my people today. It's my job to keep Angeleno safe. So I can't compromise that because I'm worried about an event that's going to happen a year or two years down the line. But having said that, the President is very supportive and very interested in the major events.
- [12:18]
Lauren Egan
Do you think he'd take them away from Los Angeles?
- [12:22]
Karen Bass
No, he doesn't have the power to do that. I understand his power goes beyond what legally it should, but the Games are run by the. In the International Olympic Committee.
- [12:33]
Lauren Egan
So, you know, we've seen Democrats get more confrontational with law enforcement and with the Trump administration recently, most of them in California. Senator Padilla was briefly detained when he showed up to a Kristi Noem press conference. Gavin Newsom told Tom Homan to go ahead and arrest him. You showed up at the park earlier this week. Do you think that that strategy is effective, or do you worry that it plays into kind of the spectacle element that Trump and his administration is looking for?
- [13:06]
Karen Bass
First of all, I don't want to see people confront law enforcement. Please, please, please. We do not want to send that message, because what people have to understand is that this administration is salivating at the idea of bringing major federal trade charges. And this is not a game here. It's not going to be a misdemeanor. They're going to go out of their way to make it a federal charge. And so I have no plans to confront law enforcement. I did not do that when I was there at MacArthur park and would highly discourage anybody from doing that. I think that not only are they salivating at the idea of bringing federal charges, they also would love for people to do that as an excuse to roll in the Marines. And we can't concede, conciliate, and give in to this. We can't be tricked. And so what I was doing, I went up to talk to the soldiers who actually were from the Customs and Border Patrol.
- [14:09]
Sam Stein
Let me talk to you. Let's close out on this, because I think you're hitting at something in the macro sense that has befuddled a lot of Democrats, which is how do you balance war? What is a very tricky situation, and what I think you correctly note is tripwire that Trump has put in front of the party. Right. I mean, he wants, in a way, to see these confrontations. I certainly think there's people around him who want, in a way, to see Democrats argue in favor of illegal immigrants who may have, you know, bad parts of their records. Right. Like, they want to get you into this posture. At the same time, we're facing, as you rightfully note, a real constitutional crisis and a real moral one, too. And a lot of people in the party are deeply repulsed by what's happening and deeply offended and scared, frankly, about watching the scenes take place in Los Angeles. So talk a bit about the balance that has to be hit here for Democrats. And do you feel like the party's there yet?
- [15:10]
Karen Bass
Honestly, especially as a mayor, I'm not dealing with the party like I was when I was in Congress.
- [15:18]
Sam Stein
Right. You're not too far removed from Congress, but I hear you.
- [15:22]
Karen Bass
That's true. I'm not. But. But I will tell you that nobody here is defending child molesters and, and hardened criminals. Nobody's doing that. But how do you say that you are going after hardened criminals and you keep going to car washes? I mean, now, most car washes in LA are very difficult to find because, you know, they keep getting raided or day laborers. I mean, if they were involved in all that criminal activity, why are they doing something like washing cars? Or the, the single woman who is selling fruit on a corner by herself, and you pull up in a car, unmarked car, no license plate, tinted windows, you pull out, pull guns on her and snatch her off the street. It is the tactics that they are using, which is a strategy of fear and terror. The tactic is to snatch people, you know, wherever they are. The strategy is to blanket the area with fear and pop up all over the place so you're never sure where they're going to be. That's why I wasn't joking when I said I literally have to look at my phone. I, I start at about 7 o' clock waiting to see if there is a, a raid that has happened because it happens around that time. Knowledge of when and where it's going to happen. But you know, you had parents that didn't go to their kids graduation. You wait years for that moment for them to cross that stage. And you can't go because you're afraid of being detained. And for some of these young people, they're the same group that missed their middle school graduation because of COVID Can.
- [17:06]
Sam Stein
I, can I briefly ask you. And then we'll let you go, but I just want to know what are the, are you privately reaching out to the White House and trying to not negotiate, but just maybe get more insight into what they're doing to sort of calm the situation at all. Can you talk to people in the White House at this point in time?
- [17:25]
Karen Bass
I will tell you, I've tried. And by the way, I certainly was talking to the White House before. You know, in terms of the fires, you know, I certainly.
- [17:35]
Sam Stein
Right. But not on the immigration stuff. They just not, they're not cooperative with you on this.
- [17:40]
Karen Bass
Well, we just haven't been in communication. There hasn't been communication.
- [17:46]
Lauren Egan
When's the last time you talked with them?
- [17:48]
Karen Bass
Before June 6th. The first raids were June 6th. So I have not really talked to anybody. Maybe I had a couple conversations here and there. They were either people in the White House or direct, are very close, you know, to the White House. And then of course I, the guy that said the quote, I've been talking to him.
- [18:12]
Lauren Egan
What has he said to you?
- [18:15]
Karen Bass
He's wanted to talk, wanted to meet, but anyway, we will see. The meeting hasn't happened, so we will see. Now that's the bad news. There's good news in our city.
- [18:25]
Sam Stein
There's a lot of good news.
- [18:28]
Karen Bass
Crime is down 60 year low for homicides. And it's important for both of those points because the administration has tried to paint the city in chaos with riots everywhere, fires everywhere. I mean the, the conflict that happened, the looting that happened over a couple of days was about a square mile, maybe two square miles in a city that is 500 square miles. So this picture of LA being in chaos, I think it's important, and it's important to say the statistics back up. Yes, we still have people on the street significantly decrease and a huge decrease in crime.
- [19:10]
Lauren Egan
Well, Mayor Bass, we know you've got a lot to get to and are very busy, so thanks for making some time. Thanks for making Sam's birthday and joining us today. We really, really appreciate. Come back anytime.
- [19:24]
Karen Bass
Thank you very much.