Bulwark Takes: "Measles Is Back and the Government Doesn’t Care"

Date: February 2, 2026
Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Jonathan Cohn (author, The Breakdown newsletter)

Episode Overview

This urgent Bulwark Takes episode focuses on the resurfacing of measles outbreaks in the United States and the disturbing lack of governmental concern or action at the highest levels. Host Sam Stein is joined by health journalist Jonathan Cohn, who unpacks the public health, political, and social factors that have led to the resurgence of a disease the country once nearly eradicated. Together, they examine how vaccine skepticism at the top levels of government, changing political dynamics, and misinformation are undermining public health—making a disease deemed preventable decades ago a new and real threat.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Measles Resurgence: Why Is This Happening Now?

• Severity of the 2026 Outbreak

  • The year is shaping up as the worst for measles in over a decade, with surging outbreaks in South Carolina and a recent cluster in an ICE facility.
  • “It's pretty bad. I know we're not bringing the sunshine here, but I mean, the measles is back. I mean, that's really bad. I mean, it's bad and it's stupid. I mean, we have a vaccine.” — Jonathan Cohn (02:25)

• Measles: Not a Minor Disease

  • While some may remember pop culture references or recall the idea that measles isn’t dangerous, Cohn stresses its severity: high fevers, pneumonia, brain swelling, and even death.
  • “Hundreds of people used to die every year for the measles. And then we got a vaccine... and pretty much wiped it out.” — Jonathan Cohn (02:54)

• Recent Outbreaks by Location

  • Texas, 2025: Three deaths, including two children—preventable loss not seen in a decade (03:09).
  • South Carolina, 2026: Over 100 cases per week, cases spreading into North Carolina, and more outbreaks in other states (03:20).

2. Government (Non)Response

• State and Federal Dynamics

  • State public health authorities are on the front lines, staffed largely by dedicated, career scientists and epidemiologists who are trying their best to manage outbreaks.
  • “They rely heavily on technical assistance and support from CDC, which my understanding is, so far they've been getting.... the career people at CDC who are still there are really good.” — Jonathan Cohn (04:10)

• Federal Leadership Vacuum

  • At the top, the response is characterized as nonchalant or even dismissive; instead of public messaging urging vaccination, the tone is apathetic or skeptical.
  • “There's no... The messaging, you know, you would want. The measles are back. You know, we should be on top of this. We should be pushing back, saying, everyone get vaccinated. But we instead, we—” — Jonathan Cohn (05:05)
  • “No, it's the opposite.” — Sam Stein (05:21)

• Shocking Federal Quote

  • “CDC Deputy director, Ralph Abraham, if he is concerned about losing the elimination status. And his response is this. Not really. He said it was the cost of doing business, quote, unquote. In a world of global travel...” — Sam Stein (05:24)
  • “It is not the cost of doing business. That is false.” — Jonathan Cohn (06:21)

• The Real Problem: Vaccination Rates and Attitudes

  • The outbreaks are not inevitable, but rather the result of falling vaccination rates, actively undermined public health messaging, and leadership either apathetic or hostile to vaccines.
  • “It is the cost of falling vaccination rates and an administration that at best is happy to let that happen.” — Jonathan Cohn (06:45)

3. Plummeting Vaccination Rates: Data and Implications

• Herd Immunity Breakdown

  • Herd immunity against measles is generally set at 95%. Communities are dipping below this, with some schools and regions experiencing far lower rates, creating vulnerable pockets for outbreaks.
  • “What you see is that in some communities and in some schools, it's falling far below that... one person gets measles in a community where people aren't protected. It's going to spread quickly...” — Jonathan Cohn (08:11)

• Contagious Nature of Measles

  • With contemporary travel and mixing, isolated unvaccinated communities now more readily ignite regional or even national outbreaks.

4. Political and Ideological Shift on Vaccines

• From Fringe to Mainstream in Vaccine Resistance

  • Vaccine skepticism used to be a fringe, often “lefty” position, mostly outside of mainstream politics; now, it’s actively championed by leaders on the right, including governors and key health officials.
  • “Back in the day... there were communities... they wanted... natural immunity... What you didn't have back then... is political leadership and top health officials saying actually this is the proper practice.” — Sam Stein (09:15)

• Florida as a Case Study

  • Florida’s Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo, with apparent support from Governor DeSantis, is working to end all vaccine mandates, a move greeted by public applause at political events (12:12–12:47).
  • “Every last one of them [mandates] is wrong.” — Jonathan Cohn (12:47)
  • “He's the chief medical professional for the state of Florida. His job is to advise people on how to best protect themselves, what best practices are. And if you take his logic to the nth degree, I mean, does he...just be able to take whatever drugs they want?” — Sam Stein (12:49)

• Mandates and Public Health

  • Cohn clarifies that most mandates concern participation in public school or working in health care—settings with vulnerable individuals.
  • “You do have some obligation when you go to school... or you're part of the... you are exposing other people. This is public health.” — Jonathan Cohn (14:53)

• Legislative Hesitation

  • In Florida, legislators are pursuing ‘medical freedom’ bills that may make exemptions easier but stop short of repealing mandates, reflecting the tension between public health needs and new political orthodoxy (16:26).

5. Tribalism and the Weaponization of Vaccine Skepticism

• New Right-Wing Identity Politics

  • “There are people who are turning against vaccines because that's what my political tribe believes... The political identity is driving the feelings about vaccines, which I think is quite dangerous because historically vaccines were not a partisan issue.” — Jonathan Cohn (17:08)

• Historical Context

  • While COVID-era mandates catalyzed much of the new skepticism, partisan gaps in vaccination began as soon as COVID vaccines rolled out, with Republicans much less likely to get vaccinated (18:09).
  • “It does seem like we're in a place where it's now become kind of internalized among conservatives that any government mandate...cannot be trusted because it's coming from the government. And so we're in a bad place.” — Sam Stein (19:13)

6. Will the Cycle Turn? Is There Hope?

• Cynicism After COVID

  • With over a million COVID deaths—and clear data that vaccination saves lives—widespread rejection of vaccines signals deep societal malaise.
  • “A million Americans died from COVID and we...it's very clear that if you got vaccinated, you were much less likely to die from COVID...And it is just written off, which is very disturbing.” — Jonathan Cohn (19:39)

• Possible Signs of Backlash

  • Despite grim trends, there are signs of pushback: community-based pro-vaccine activism, and some political candidates (like pediatrician Annie Andrews in South Carolina) prioritizing the issue (20:17–21:39).
  • “There are these pockets all over the country of grassroots movements to push vaccines... Maybe I'll get people's attention.” — Jonathan Cohn (21:29)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On personal consequences:
  “Children dying from a preventable [disease] when they didn't have to is really awful. I mean, that should not happen.” — Jonathan Cohn (03:11)

• On politicization:
  “It's become a point of pride for some state officials to act this way. And never is that more true than down in Florida…” — Sam Stein (11:52)

• On public health duty:
  “The reason we have public officials to protect health is that these are really complicated questions and we need a reliable set of authorities to guide us.” — Jonathan Cohn (13:39)

• On cyclical hope:
  “Maybe I'll get people's attention.” — Jonathan Cohn (21:29)

• On the tragedy of preventable illness:
  “It’s all self-inflicted.” — Sam Stein (21:39)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Introduction and Severity of the Outbreak — 01:30–04:00
• On Government Response and Messaging — 04:00–06:30
• CDC Deputy Director’s “Cost of Doing Business” Quote — 05:24–06:21
• Vaccine Rates and Biological Realities — 08:02–09:15
• Florida’s Vaccine Mandate Policies and Applause — 11:52–12:47
• Political Identity and Vaccine Skepticism — 16:21–18:09
• COVID’s Legacy and Shifts in Public Trust — 18:09–20:17
• Notes of Hope and Backlash — 20:17–21:39
• Closing Thoughts — 21:39–22:13

Tone and Takeaways

The episode is sober, direct, and heavy with frustration at the needless return of a preventable disease. Sam Stein and Jonathan Cohn maintain a weary expertise—rooted in public health facts but shaken by the realities of contemporary politics. Their conversation is punctuated by dark humor, palpable exasperation with official negligence, and, in the end, a flicker of cautious hope that public alarm may ultimately help restore rational public health leadership.

For further information, subscribe to Jonathan Cohn’s “The Breakdown” newsletter for in-depth coverage and updates on health policy crises.