Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes
Episode: Meet the Most Hated Democrat in America (w/ Bill Ferguson)
Date: November 21, 2025
Host: Lauren Egan (with guest Bill Ferguson, President of the Maryland Senate)
Episode Overview
This episode dives into the contentious debate over redistricting in Maryland, centering on State Senate President Bill Ferguson, who has become a lightning rod for criticism from fellow Democrats. Ferguson explains his opposition to gerrymandering Maryland's congressional districts in response to similar moves by Republican-led states—despite mounting national and local Democratic pressure. The conversation examines the legal, political, and ethical complexities faced by blue states in the Trump era, offering listeners an insider perspective on the real-world consequences of redistricting battles.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Ferguson's Reasons for Opposing Redistricting
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Core Perspective: Ferguson frames his opposition as rooted in both principle and pragmatism.
- He recognizes the national Democratic anger in response to Trump-era Republican gerrymandering, especially following Texas’s aggressive mid-cycle redistricting. [(02:55)]
- However, he insists that any redistricting attempt in Maryland could backfire, risking current Democratic advantages in the state’s congressional maps.
- Quote: "In Maryland, getting an 8-0 map is the least likely outcome possible... our current 7:1 map, by just going for an additional district, is in the greatest jeopardy it could possibly be." — Bill Ferguson [(03:52)]
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Legal History: Ferguson recalls how a previous attempt at a more competitive (Democratic-favoring) map was thrown out in 2022 for extreme partisan gerrymandering under Maryland’s state constitution—a new and untested legal standard.
- He cautions that any new attempt would open the door for courts to redraw maps themselves, likely reducing Democratic seats.
- Quote: "For the first time ever in Maryland, Judge Battaglia ... threw out our map, saying that it was extreme partisan gerrymandering. That is not about the U.S. constitution. She applied for the very first time the state constitution to federal maps." — Bill Ferguson [(06:18)]
2. Debate with Maryland Congressional Delegation
- Disagreement with Hoyer & Raskin: Lauren Egan points out that Rep. Jamie Raskin and Rep. Steny Hoyer dispute Ferguson's assessment of legal risks, urging him to “get caught trying.” Ferguson counters that their legal calculus is different and rooted in past experience:
- Quote: "We have a different calculus of the risk. And mine comes from the experience that we had in 2021... there's no escape hatch. Once you start moving forward... we lose our argument that the 7:1 map that we have today can stand." — Bill Ferguson [(05:48)/(07:10)]
3. Specific Legal Risks and Precedents
- Potential for Fewer Democratic Seats: Ferguson warns that opening up redistricting now could result in the courts imposing a 6-2 or 5-3 map (Democratic-Republican split), which would reflect partisan registrations or adopt a Republican-proposed map.
- He references the “Hogan map,” produced by a previous Republican governor-appointed commission, as a likely fallback for courts.
- Quote: "If we were to move a map forward and there were a lawsuit, what the plaintiffs would do is take the Governor Hogan map... that's a 6-2 map or a 5-2-1 competitive map, and say to the court, 'the timeline doesn't work, so adopt this map.'" — Bill Ferguson [(10:38)]
4. Strategic Priorities and the “Wave Year” Argument
- When pressed on why Maryland Democrats shouldn't try for an 8-0 map during a possible blue wave, Ferguson redirects the conversation to broader, winnable races.
- He highlights the importance of competitive candidacies and focusing resources on plausible pickups nationwide, rather than risky procedural battles at home.
- Quote: "We should be focusing all of our energy on those places where we've got great candidates ... instead of these intra-party in the weeds, changing-the-rules conversations." — Bill Ferguson [(13:54)]
5. Party Strategy: “Race to the Bottom” Concerns
- Ferguson elaborates on why a gerrymandering arms race would hurt Democrats:
- Blue states have fewer districts under their control than red states, so mutual escalation would result in a net Republican gain.
- Differentiates Maryland from Virginia and California, which have independent commissions—arguing Maryland’s unique legal landscape leaves less flexibility.
- Quote: "It is not only mutually assured destruction because of the impact on democracy, but at the end of the day, Democrats will lose. We have less seats... to be redistricted." — Bill Ferguson [(17:05)]
- Memorable line: "You don't actually fight fire with fire, right? You fight fire with water." [(18:34)]
6. Public Opinion & Political Pressure
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Discusses recent polling showing Marylanders support Democratic-led redistricting, but argues once constituents hear the legal risks, many reconsider.
- Quote: "Once people see the context in Maryland… they second guess whether or not they believe that we should move forward." — Bill Ferguson [(20:32)]
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Addresses calls to primary him, maintaining that he welcomes competition and will run on his record of delivering for his district.
- Quote: "Elections are a positive thing. ... I'm really proud of my record. ... These are all things that… I have been able to deliver on and fight for." — Bill Ferguson [(22:31)]
7. What Happens Next?
- On whether he’d block a floor vote if the governor called a special session:
- Ferguson demurs, stating he “doesn't foresee that happening” given the tight calendar and impending election deadlines.
- Quote: "I don’t think that we’ll have a special session. ... I don’t foresee that happening." — Bill Ferguson [(24:08)]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On being called the “most hated Democrat”:
"Thanks for the most infamous Title now known available. … I've got a 13 year old, so I get called far worse on a daily basis."
— Bill Ferguson [(02:25)] -
On Democratic fighting spirit:
"I get the impetus to want to fight. … This whole idea of fight fire with fire, I totally get that. But you don't actually fight fire with fire, right? You fight fire with water."
— Bill Ferguson [(18:34)] -
Summing up the electoral risk:
"At some point, if you are looking at the full map and as a whole ... well then, we will end up 5, 6, 7, 8 seats behind net. It’s just a crazy argument..."
— Bill Ferguson [(17:33)] -
On constituent persuasion:
"I have people coming up to me saying, like, I definitely thought we should redistrict, but thanks for writing that letter... I didn't realize what could happen if we actually did this.”
— Bill Ferguson [(21:20)]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [01:40] - Lauren Egan introduces the controversy and Bill Ferguson
- [02:55] - Ferguson explains his opposition and recent Maryland legal history
- [05:01] - Debate about Hoyer and Raskin’s “get caught trying” argument
- [06:18] - The 2022 map decision and legal precedent
- [10:12] - Likelihood and dangers of a 6-2 map emerging
- [13:51] - Ferguson on wave elections and focusing on competitive races
- [15:12] - Egan challenges with “Democrats need to fight dirty” argument
- [16:37] - Danger of race-to-the-bottom and Democratic losses
- [19:47] - Handling constituent pressure and shifting opinions
- [21:45] - Discussing primary threats and his electoral record
- [24:08] - Would Ferguson block a vote if a special session were called?
Tone and Style
The conversation is frank and pragmatic, with Ferguson offering detailed, at times legalistic explanations for his controversial stance. While acknowledging Democratic frustration (“people are angry at the lawlessness...”), Ferguson repeatedly stresses the importance of local context, legal precedent, and strategic calculation—arguing that “fighting smart” is the best way to protect Democratic interests, even in the face of national pressure and political risks. Lauren Egan serves as a persistent but fair interlocutor, channeling national Democratic anxieties and pushing Ferguson to clarify his reasoning at every step.
For listeners who missed the episode:
This is an inside look at the high-stakes chess of democratic strategy under Trump, featuring a state leader willing to resist pressure in favor of what he believes to be sustainable, principled governance—even at the risk of being labeled public enemy number one by his own party.