Podcast Summary: "Megyn Kelly is a Deeply Broken Person"

Bulwark Takes | The Bulwark | November 14, 2025
Host: Tim Miller

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the right-wing media’s response—especially Megyn Kelly's—to the new revelations about Donald Trump’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Tim Miller critiques the mental gymnastics performed by MAGA-aligned media figures in defending Trump and minimizing the seriousness of Epstein’s crimes, with special attention paid to semantic arguments over the terms “pedophile” and “ephebophile.” The episode highlights the moral emptiness and desperation underlying these defenses.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reactions to New Epstein Revelations

• (00:00–03:28) Tim opens by outlining the latest Epstein developments: new emails and evidence revealing Trump’s historically inappropriate and potentially complicit ties to Jeffrey Epstein, and his subsequent attempts to cover them up while president.
• Media Response: Despite overwhelming facts, MAGA media personalities, rather than admit fault or wrongdoing, double down with even more “absurd rationalizations” for Trump.
• Key Insight: “There’s no apology. You always have to come with increasingly absurd rationalizations for Donald Trump's heinousness.” (Tim Miller, 02:02)

2. Megyn Kelly’s Defense of Donald Trump

• (03:28–04:03) Megyn Kelly, with guest Batya Ungar-Sargon, attempts to downplay Trump’s involvement and minimize the number of sexual assault allegations against him.
• Quote:

  “We have not seen some slew of young women come forward to say me too on Donald Trump molesting them or having paid for sex with them when they were barely legal or otherwise. It just hasn't happened.”
  (Megyn Kelly, playing clip, 03:28)

Counterpoint

• (04:03–06:23) Tim corrects the record, listing the many women who've publicly accused Trump of sexual misconduct, up to and including rape:
  • At least 28 credible public accusers.
  • Trump’s infamous “grab them by the pussy” remarks as outright admission.
  • Trump’s pattern of downplaying, denying, or rationalizing accusations.
• Quote:

  “There have been a lot of women who have come forth... The fact that he bragged about it is on the public record.”
  (Tim Miller, 05:05)

3. Rationalizing Epstein's Crimes—The ‘Ephebophile’ Dodge

• (06:23–07:01) Batya Ungar-Sargon and Megyn Kelly pivot from Trump to a minimization of Epstein’s abuse, contorting the topic from a “pedophile ring” to a more sanitized narrative.
  • They argue that after Epstein sexually abused underage girls, he only passed them to his friends once they were “of age”, thus downplaying any “criminal” element among others besides Epstein.
• Quote:

  “There was no pedophilia ring. There was a pedophile who did unspeakable things to vulnerable girls, and then...he would pass them on [to his friends].”
  (Batya Ungar-Sargon, 06:36)

Host's Moral Outrage

• (07:01–10:56) Tim Miller expresses personal disgust, drilling down on the horror of grooming and trafficking girls—even if technically, once they turned eighteen, they were “legal.”
• Quote:

  “Maybe it's not technically a crime on behalf of the guy that got the massage, but it is morally repulsive and anyone that is involved in it should be expelled from polite society forever.”
  (Tim Miller, 09:04)

4. Semantic Games about ‘Barely Legal’

• (10:56–12:40) Megyn Kelly, relying on an unidentified insider, attempts to frame Epstein as not a “pedophile” but as someone into “barely legal” girls (“he liked 15 year old girls”), seemingly unaware that 15 is in fact solidly illegal.

• Quotes:

  "Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile...but that he was into the barely legal type. Like, he liked 15 year old girls."
  (Megyn Kelly, 11:05)

  "So as a lawyer, you would think that Megyn Kelly would be familiar with the fact that a 15 year old is not exactly a barely legal type. That's barely illegal."
  (Tim Miller, 11:35)

• Kelly attempts to clarify she isn’t excusing it, just “giving facts,” but insists Epstein was not “into 8 year olds,” but “very young teen types that could pass for even younger than they were, but would look legal to a passerby.”
  (Megyn Kelly, 12:18)

Visual Evidence: The Reality of Epstein’s Victims

• (12:40–18:50) Tim Miller methodically walks through photos and stories of Epstein’s victims—Tila Davis (17), Jennalisa Jones (14), Michelle Licata (16), Jennifer Araoz (recruited at 14), Courtney Wilde (as a young teen). He emphasizes their obvious youth, undermining Kelly's semantic hair-splitting.
• Quote:

  “This is sick…These are children, these are girls in this picture. Like, Megyn Kelly is out there on her podcast today...saying that these girls—it was wrong, but it was kind of, you know, it wasn't as bad as people were saying. It’s kind of like borderline appropriate. It was barely legal. It's kind of like looking at a Maxim magazine. It's just…It is sick.”
  (Tim Miller, 16:55)

5. The Moral and Political Rot of MAGA Media

• (18:50–End) Tim uses Kelly’s comments as an example of how far MAGA media personalities are willing to go—splitting moral hairs and excusing the inexcusable—just to provide rhetorical cover for Trump and preserve audience or influence.
• Argues this is the result of a “deeply broken” worldview, where the requirement to continue defending Trump leads to ever more nihilistic, depraved excuses.
• Quote:

  “It's a sign of just a deeply broken person who can no longer identify right from wrong because they're so deep in their need for relevance or for power, for influence. And that's so tied to this person, Donald Trump…that they just—you become nihilist.”
  (Tim Miller, 19:38)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s no apology. You always have to come with increasingly absurd rationalizations for Donald Trump’s heinousness.” (02:02)
• “We have not seen some slew of young women… It just hasn't happened.” (Megyn Kelly, 03:28)
• “There have been a lot of women who have come forth… The fact that he bragged about it is on the public record.” (Tim Miller, 05:05)
• “There was no pedophilia ring. There was a pedophile… then he would pass them on [to his friends].” (Batya Ungar-Sargon, 06:36)
• “It's not technically a crime… but it is morally repulsive and anyone that is involved in it should be expelled from polite society forever.” (09:04)
• “Jeffrey Epstein…was not a pedophile…he liked 15-year-old girls.” (Megyn Kelly, 11:05)
• “That’s barely illegal.” (Tim Miller, 11:35)
• “This is sick… These are children, these are girls in this picture.” (16:55)
• “You become nihilist...You find yourself trying to thinly slice the difference between pedophilia and ‘a feeble philia’ and...do a little bit of, you know, post hoc, post–suicide spin on behalf of a child sex trafficker.” (20:24)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00 – Tim Miller introduction, Epstein revelations and MAGA media context
• 03:28 – Megyn Kelly’s denial of MeToo allegations against Trump
• 06:23 – Batya attempts to “clarify” Epstein’s actions
• 10:56 – Megyn Kelly’s “barely legal” / ephebophile argument
• 12:40 – Tim presents images and stories of actual victims
• 18:50 – Culminating commentary on the moral collapse of MAGA-aligned defenses

Conclusion

Tim Miller’s episode delivers a scathing critique of MAGA media’s willingness to twist facts and morality in defense of Trump, using Megyn Kelly’s remarks as a prime exhibit. Through a mix of incredulity, moral clarity, and personal outrage, Tim underscores the dangers and depravity of such defenses, making a passionate case for the necessity of honesty and empathy in the face of overwhelming evidence of abuse.