← Bulwark Takes
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- [00:01]
Unknown Parent
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- [01:01]
Tim Miller
Get the Angel REEF Special at McDonald's.
- [01:02]
Unknown Parent
Now let's break it down.
- [01:04]
Tim Miller
My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy.
- [01:07]
Unknown Parent
Bacon, pickles, onions, and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't forget the fries and the drinks. Sound good?
- [01:14]
Ryan Seacrest
I participate in restaurants for a limited time.
- [01:16]
Tim Miller
Hey, guys, it's Tim Miller from the Bulwark. I'm delighted to be here with a glowing Michael Fanone. I mean, the dude, like, went through some shit and I'm just. I'm over here just monitoring his skin care. What's going on?
- [01:29]
Michael Fanone
Fanon, you know, just living the dream, man.
- [01:32]
Tim Miller
Yeah, well, not exactly. You know, Fanon was with me. I was with him, I guess. Better. I was hiding behind him at the principal's first conference over the weekend when Enrique Tario and some of these who led the attack on the Capitol, you know, came and tried to menace people, tried to pretend to be tough. He brought his little 5 foot 2 friend, the Maga Marauder, and. And then the next day, obviously there's a bomb threat. We don't. We don't really know the origin of. I'm just. I mean, man, like, how do you process all this? Like that these guys are running around, like, creating trouble after they. After, you know, you live through what they did a couple of years ago.
- [02:12]
Michael Fanone
Well, first of all, I mean, I think it's important to kind of understand who they are. I mean, Specifically the Proud Boys. You know, this was an organization that we saw pop up, you know, during Donald Trump's first presidential campaign. And you know, really where they kind of came into their own was they would violently attack anyone who was opposed to their viewpoints. And they are very much so embedded in the, in the maga movement. Yeah, Enrique Tario kind of emerged as the leader of the group or self proclaimed leader of the group. He was the one that showed up at the principal's first summit. But he, it seems to me has, you know, kind of different motivations and he's not somebody that likes to get his hands dirty. What he likes to do is create these viral moments, put them out on social media to build his brand, build his profile, and then try to sell people shit, sell the Proud Boys swag, sell, you know, the hats and the T shirts and ammunition magazines that are embroidered with the, you know, Proud Boys logo. So for me it seems as though his motivations is, are monetary. And he brought along like you said, his little the midget menace, Ivan Ranklin. But you know, they show that they show up. They look like cartoon characters. You know, they, he wears his little uniform, the Proud Boys uniform. He's got his sunglasses on that he wears indoors. But everybody's wearing a body worn camera. They're flanked by their little right wing media guys with their cameras out recording the entire thing. Like I said, they're looking for a viral moment and they're also looking for somebody, you know, bait somebody into an interaction which they could sue them. Whether it's threats or, or whether it's some physical confrontation. I mean that's really what, at least in my mind, what that that event was all about. And it's interesting because, you know, as a group that places masculinity in very high regard, you know, where I'm from, the, the least masculine thing you can do to settle a dispute is sue somebody. So, you know, I don't know, actually.
- [04:39]
Tim Miller
It might be even less masculine to try to settle a dispute by having a flunky videotape you for TikTok while you yell at somebody. I don't know, like an influence, an influencer beef. I don't know. That's not exactly tough guy material either.
- [04:58]
Michael Fanone
You know, I guess it would have been cool if we had like a dance off Zoolander.
- [05:06]
Tim Miller
How do you though, process that? I mean, look, I'm trying to put myself. It's hard for me to put myself in your shoes because like on the one hand, like what you're saying now is Very even keel and correct. Don't give these guys what they want, right? Which is some like, little clip that he can use to get attention, to sell things to the incels that like, think that he's tough and sit in their basement, et cetera. Don't do that. On the other hand, fuck these guys. Like, they, they instigated the violent attack on all of you who are just doing your job. And so, you know, maybe they need to be. Get a taste of their own medicine.
- [05:44]
Michael Fanone
Right.
- [05:44]
Tim Miller
Like I would understand the second impulse that has to be a little tough to, you know, restrain.
- [05:54]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, no, I mean, listen, like, I, I was a cop for 20 years, so it's not the first time that somebody's called me, you know, a mean name.
- [06:01]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I tried to bait you, right?
- [06:03]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That. That being said, I mean, you're right, like I'm of the mindset that the appropriate emotions to be feeling right now are anger and outrage.
- [06:12]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [06:13]
Michael Fanone
And so I met that moment with anger and outrage and I told Enrique Tarrio exactly what I think about him. And quite frankly, I told him who he is. And he is a convicted seditious conspirator and a traitor to this country. And I also called Ivan Rankin a bald headed bitch, which is also what he is. True.
- [06:38]
Tim Miller
Accurate. It's important to be accurate when you're leveling criticisms, particularly on the Bulwark. You know, so I played a clip of you from when you're on stage. So folks who don't have the backstory. So this is an event with a bunch of different panel discussions. You and Harry Dunn, Akil Gannel were on stage kind of discussing January 6th. That was before these guys showed up. And when you were up there, you talked about how the, the pardons were in part motivated by Trump wanting to have, you know, some muscle, wanting to have some people out there that he thinks will, you know, create trouble on his behalf and, you know, have his own militia or whatever. And so how do you, like what, you know, how do you kind of balance like that impulse with like the performative side of it? Like, you know, how much of it do you think is like, real nefarious, people should be scared? And how much do you think is performative? I guess is my question.
- [07:43]
Michael Fanone
No, I mean, first of all, I think people should be extremely concerned. Yeah, I mean, you just can't let that fear paralyze you.
- [07:52]
Tim Miller
Right.
- [07:53]
Michael Fanone
But you know, make no mistake about it, these are violent extremist groups of the Proud Boys, the oath keepers, the 3 percenters, you know, they are, they use the tactics, the same tactics of the brown shirts in 1930s and 40s Germany. They harass, they intimidate, and they use violence to suppress anyone that may have opposing viewpoints to their own. And you know, going back to the pardons, you know, Donald Trump, in pardoning hundreds of violent insurrectionists, many of whom were members of these right wing extremist groups, created his own civilian militia, you know, or an organization or organizations that can go out and commit acts of violence on his behalf, who now feel emboldened to do so because they feel that if they do that Donald Trump will simply pardon them, they will face no criminal accountability. And so I think Americans most certainly should be concerned. They should be angry, they should be outraged. They should be raising this at every town hall meeting, calling their members of Congress, calling every elected official in their district and letting them know that this is absolutely unacceptable.
- [09:18]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I was talking to Ryan Goodman about the legal side of this yesterday, but on these pardons, there was another situation where one of the guys that got pardoned when the police went to his home, he had grenades. He just sawed off shotgun. He had some other illegal weapons. He had some classified documents I guess he took from the Army. And the DOJ issued a statement yesterday that said, no, all of that stuff is also included in the pardon. And that is, that speaks more to your point about how he wants these guys out here menacing people. The idea that if the notion was just, oh, I want people to have a clean bill of health for what happened on January 6th, because I thought it was B.S. obviously I disagree with that. But like, if that was the only intention, then you wouldn't have your Department of Justice saying, oh, I also want to cover this guy who had grenades at his house.
- [10:08]
Michael Fanone
Right. It also speaks to the seriousness of, you know, some of these individuals intentions. I mean, this is someone who has grenades in their house.
- [10:16]
Tim Miller
Right.
- [10:17]
Michael Fanone
You know, individuals who.
- [10:18]
Tim Miller
You got any grenades over there?
- [10:20]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, I normally have grenades. I wouldn't tell you if I did that. You know, I mean, weapons charges for people that are prohibited from possessing firearms. I mean, all of that stuff should be deeply concerning to every average everyday Americans. I mean, you have an active, you know, extremist groups who have found an ally in the President of the United States. I mean, that's absolutely insane.
- [10:47]
Tim Miller
Not to get too personal, but I do have to ask because the reports are out there, but like, these guys are also coming for your mother. Is that, Is that true?
- [10:55]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, pretty much every member of my family My immediate family has, has suffered these threats and harassment. My mother seemed to have bear the brunt of it. You know, she's been swatted in recent months. She had a confrontation with an individual that confronted her while she was raking leaves in her front yard, screamed at her that her son was a traitor and threw shit on her. She's had bricks thrown at the house. And, you know, again, after Enrique Tarrio and his merry bunch of men showed up to, to the principal's first summit, you know, obviously the principal summit was targeted with a bomb threat the following day. Yeah. And my mother's house was also targeted with a bomb threat in that same bomb threat. And then since then, in the past 24 hours, all of my immediate family has received harassing phone calls, threats, and other forms of harassment. So it's become a family affair.
- [12:05]
Tim Miller
Man, how do you keep even keel on this stuff? Like, I'm like, the rage is building up inside me right now. Like, the idea that somebody would come for your mother, I, I just, I, I, I don't, I don't understand, honestly, like, how you control it.
- [12:22]
Michael Fanone
I mean, I, you know, when I'm engaged, I'm engaged. When I disengage, I, I completely disengage. You know, I try to keep my world very small when I'm not out attending these summits and, and interacting with people. But also, I mean, I'll be honest with you, Tim. Like, having opportunities like the Bulwark to come out and talk about these things is incredibly cathartic for me. And it makes me feel like I have the ability to affect some change or at least let people know what the hell is going on in this country. Because so many Americans are indifferent or oblivious. Only now are we starting to kind of see what's in store for all of us. Regardless of who you supported in the last election, Donald Trump doesn't give a, you know, he's going to do what he's going to do and, and that's it. And so, you know, maybe now people will start to see that this, this behavior is, is unacceptable.
- [13:22]
Tim Miller
Yeah, well, man, you can have a platform with us anytime to vent. Doors always open for venting. Because I just, man, I got a lot to get off my chest and I didn't go through any of the shift that you went through. But these fucking, these fucking pussies, man, I just, I can't fucking take it. I, I just, they, they're so loathsome and so cowardly. But we can, we can vent about that more another day. I want to piggy ran on one other thing while I got you though, because if we're to do politics and affect change, one group that the Democrats have really struggled with in convincing about their, you know, the, the, the negative side of the MAGA movement is guys like you like to be, for lack of a better like description, right? Like, it looks like you got a little American flag back there. Working, you know, you worked in law enforcement. A lot of law enforcement people went for Trump. You got tats. I assume you've, you know, you know, your way around Zen or some chewing, you know, some dip. Like, you know, you might know some MMA fighters, right? Like, this is like, this is like these are the guys that have been moving more and more towards Trump and maga. And so I just wonder like, why, why do you think that is? And do you think that there's some kind of message or some kind of way, manner of speaking that might like break through about the kind of nefarious that they're supporting? Because, like, I'm not talking about the dudes with the red hats and like, there's some people that are unreachable. I'm talking about the more of, like the non political, you know, kind of guys, working class guys that have been drawn in by Trump.
- [14:58]
Michael Fanone
And this really does apply, I think, to all politicians prior to Donald Trump's arrival on the scene. But there is always this very kind of over educated, elitist, condescending speak that was used when addressing the American people. And it seemed that there was more and more and more of a disconnect between politicians, whether at the local level or the national level, and the people that they were there to represent. I mean, for me, where Democrats, you know, completely lost me and I was always very apolitical. I voted for both political parties, but I think when I started to, to pay attention was to defund the police movement. You know, I was a cop for 20 years. I understood policing and our relationship with the communities and I knew that there was work to be done. I certainly thought that it was worth having a conversation. And then I saw, you know, the Democrats really just instead of having the conversation in a productive way, they used it to bash cops, to try to get votes. So for me, that that was it. And, and unfortunately, you know, you know, when it comes to, you know, applying that to today, you know, the Democrats really, they've kind of taken this, you know, we're just going to sit back and, and see what happens or let Donald Trump, you know, destroy himself, so to speak, as if we haven't, you know, learned the lesson over and over and over again, that's never going to, to happen. And you know, it's, for me, it's disheartening because I'm somebody, you know, like yourself, who's so avidly against what's happening in this country at this moment. And to watch, you know, I guess the only political party that still is concerned about democracy sit back and wait and watch. It's pathetic.
- [17:02]
Tim Miller
Obviously, I agree with that. And we're banging the drum on that. Just back to the defending the police thing because then thinking about, okay, let's be constructive, right? Like, how do you, how do you break through? And I don't know if like FBI agents are not as, whatever, sympathetic as regular cops. Right? Like, it's a little bit, it's a little different. It's obviously different than somebody, it's like a neighborhood cop. Right. But still, like, it's the Republicans right now that are fucking over cops. At least federal law enforcement. Right. And I do feel like at some level there's got to be a way to break through with folks by talking about just like the damage that they're doing to federal law enforcement, to vets like, who are losing their jobs to regular, you know, people say, like, oh, federal government employees, bureaucrats. And like, they picture some like sky in a suit on K Street. But like, there are a lot of people work for the federal government that are working class people, you know, so wondering if you think there's kind of an opportunity there.
- [17:59]
Michael Fanone
I mean, unfortunately, you know, I've been out here for four years and I really think that what's going to have to happen is it has to impact individual Americans lives.
- [18:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [18:08]
Michael Fanone
You know, it's got to come. It's got to impact a friend or a family member or yourself or your spouse. I mean, I've, I've been on the phone, you know, for the past week with dozens of friends who have either been laid off from their federal jobs or fired from their federal jobs or, you know, whatever the hell Doge is calling it. Dismissed.
- [18:27]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [18:28]
Michael Fanone
And, and you know, that obviously is, is, is resonating with people when they can't put food on the table and they can't support their families. And, and then, you know, to add insult to injury, they're being villainized for, for being a part of some, you know, government agency scheme.
- [18:49]
Tim Miller
Fraud. It's all fraud.
- [18:50]
Michael Fanone
They're defraud stealing USAID workers that have dedicated their lives to, you know, doing things that are super fun like going to third world countries to deliver bags of rice to starving people. You know, they're. They're lunatic leftists that are, you know, destroying the fabric of our country. And they, they have to be purged. It's insane.
- [19:14]
Tim Miller
Insane. All right, we're going to be bringing you back. I want to pick your brain on this. As in a feat, you know, GW grad that lived in the Denver suburbs growing up. You know, I like, sometimes I do my best, but like, I feel I've got a cultural gap sometimes with some of these folks that some of these voters that we're struggling with to convince. So I want to bring you back, chat about that. And unfortunately, I think there's gonna be fucking more news on the law enforcement front and the pardon front and the proud boy front. We'll have plenty of, plenty of things to talk about. All right, bro.
- [19:46]
Michael Fanone
All right, man. Look forward to it.
- [19:47]
Tim Miller
Thanks so much to Michael Fanone. You're a great American. Everybody subscribe to the feedback and we'll be seeing you soon. At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring.
- [20:12]
Unknown Parent
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- [20:16]
Tim Miller
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- [20:24]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [20:49]
Michael Fanone
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