Mike Flynn Devoured by the MAGA Conspiracies He Created

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Episode Summary Title: Mike Flynn Devoured by the MAGA Conspiracies He Created
Release Date: May 1, 2025
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Speakers: Sam Stein (Managing Editor at The Bulwark), Will Sommer (Author of the False Flag Newsletter Franchise)

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Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Sam Stein engages in a deep-dive conversation with Will Sommer to explore the intriguing and ironic downfall of Michael Flynn, a central figure in the MAGA conspiracy landscape. The discussion unpacks how Flynn, once a pivotal player in propagating conspiracy theories, has now become ensnared in one of his own making.

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Michael Flynn's Rise in Conspiracy Theories

[00:00 - 00:54]
Sam Stein opens the discussion by highlighting Michael Flynn's transformation from a retired general and brief Trump national security adviser to a martyr within the Trump grassroots and conspiracy-theorist communities.

Will Sommer: "Michael Flynn was of course, a general. He was briefly Trump's national security adviser in the first term, and most importantly for our purposes, he was indicted by Robert Mueller. And so because of that, he became a hero to the Trump grassroots and especially conspiracy theorists who thought that, you know, anyone getting indicted by Robert Mueller was sort of a victim of the deep state and this, this hero."

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Flynn's Deepening Involvement with QAnon

[00:54 - 02:36]
Will Sommer elaborates on Flynn's immersion into the QAnon conspiracy movement, describing how his indictment positioned him as a martyr and facilitated his rise as a central figure within the community. Flynn's active participation in QAnon conventions and promotion of related conspiracy theories solidified his status.

Will Sommer: "He starts promoting... he was like, we should do a Myanmar style coup here against liberals... And so this is a guy who has been riding high and sort of remade himself after leaving government as like a hero to conspiracy theorists."

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Transition Post-Trump Re-election

[02:36 - 03:06]
Post-Trump reelection, Flynn remains active within conspiracy circles but has not reentered governmental roles. Rumors suggest potential involvement in a new administration, though no concrete evidence supports these claims.

Sam Stein: "I would be surprised. There are certain stoves you don't touch."

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Flynn's Entanglement in January 6th Conspiracies

[03:06 - 05:28]
Sam Stein and Will Sommer dissect the emerging conspiracy that accuses Flynn of orchestrating the January 6th insurrection to entrap Trump supporters. The theory suggests that Flynn, under the guise of a conspiracy hero, manipulated events to create legal troubles for his allies.

Will Sommer: "There's kind of like a lot of under this conspiracy... they think he's still working for the deep state... that he was sort of what you might say he was sheep dipped."

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Internal QAnon Feuds and Impact on Flynn

[05:28 - 07:29]
The conversation shifts to internal conflicts within the QAnon movement, particularly between Flynn and other influential members like "the Matrix" and "Shady Groove." These disputes have led to a fracturing of support, exacerbated by external pressures such as the nomination of Earl Matthews to the Pentagon's general counsel position. Matthews' criticism of the Flynn family has fueled further conspiratorial narratives against them.

Sam Stein: "Michael Flynn standing in my way."

Additionally, a QAnon rap criticizing Flynn and supporting Earl Matthews is discussed:

Rap Lyrics: "There's a reason yo they duck and they weed Flynn Network sh. Can't let you believe Earl Matthew's name they won't let it shine but the truth's breaking free It's a matter of time Reasons they hide reasons they lie Patriots, opposers let's look in their eyes."

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Earl Matthews' Role and QAnon Exploitation

[07:29 - 08:39]
Will Sommer explains how Earl Matthews, amidst his confirmation process, has become a target for QAnon narratives. Despite his professional role, Matthews actively engages in online criticism of the Flynn family, which QAnon enthusiasts have leveraged to deepen their conspiratorial claims.

Will Sommer: "He reposts a QAnon video about, you know, Flynn's panicking because Earl's in charge... This is like. This guy is otherwise presents as like, a pretty, like, straightforward military guy, but."

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Flynn's Reaction to Being the Target of Conspiracies

[08:39 - 09:11]
The episode concludes with Flynn's visible frustration over becoming a victim of the very conspiracies he once championed. His public statements reflect his distress and lack of amusement at the irony of his situation.

Will Sommer: "Flynn is absolutely blowing his lid over this. I mean, he is tweeting... 'me and my family are tired of being a pin cushion for the mob and all this.'"

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Conclusion and Looking Forward

Sam Stein and Will Sommer wrap up the episode by pondering the future developments in Flynn's saga, particularly the impact of internal QAnon conflicts and Flynn's potential moves against further conspiratorial entanglements. The discussion underscores the complex and often self-destructive nature of conspiracy movements.

Sam Stein: "We'll be watching to see what he does with this. And maybe they'll just eat each other. And I'm very curious to see if Earl Matthews ends up at the Pentagon."

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Key Takeaways

• Michael Flynn's Transformation: From a Trump official to a QAnon martyr, Flynn's journey illustrates the volatile nature of political conspiracies.
• Irony of Downfall: Flynn, once a master of conspiracy theories, is now ensnared in one, highlighting the self-perpetuating cycle of misinformation.
• Internal QAnon Dynamics: Infighting and rivalries within QAnon factions exacerbate the complexity of conspiratorial narratives.
• Earl Matthews' Involvement: Matthews' professional role intersects with QAnon, providing ammunition for ongoing conspiracies against the Flynn family.
• Future Implications: The unfolding drama around Flynn and his associates may signal broader shifts within the MAGA conspiracy landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Will Sommer (00:54): "Michael Flynn was... indicted by Robert Mueller... he became a hero to the Trump grassroots and especially conspiracy theorists who thought that, you know, anyone getting indicted by Robert Mueller was sort of a victim of the deep state."

• Sam Stein (04:15): "I love my brother, and if he went crazy down rabbit holes, I would not disown him, but I would find it a little bit uncomfortable."

• Will Sommer (05:49): "They have turned on him... now Michael Flynn... has been nominated to be the Pentagon's general counsel... providing grist for that."

• Will Sommer (08:03): "This guy is otherwise presents as like, a pretty, like, straightforward military guy, but."

• Will Sommer (09:11): "There's this irony that he was like, Mr. Conspiracy Theory, and now he's, you know, the victim of one."

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This episode provides a comprehensive and engaging exploration of Michael Flynn's entanglement in the very conspiracies he once helped propagate, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the intricate dynamics within the MAGA conspiracy ecosystem.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the book. And I'm joined by Will Sommer, author of the False Flag newsletter franchise. We're going to be talking about Mike Flynn, the chief purveyor of conspiracies, getting consumed by a conspiracy theory of his own. Will, let's start by just kind of laying out the kind of central role that Mike Flynn plays in this crazy universe that you. I don't want to say you inhabit it. You. You're like an anthropologist who is kind of out. Yeah, exactly.

[Will Sommer]

I'm like the nature photographer dressed as an elephant or whatever.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. You've been staying there for years just to get the perfect shot. Let's talk about Flynn's role. Like, obviously, he, he's pushed a lot of the QAnon stuff. Some people think he's cute, but, like, how did he get to this place? And what kind of role actually is it.

[Will Sommer]

It? Sure. So Michael Flynn was of course, a general. He was briefly Trump's national security adviser in the first term, and most importantly for our purposes, he was indicted by Robert Mueller. And so because of that, he became a hero to the, the Trump grassroots and especially conspiracy theorists who thought that, you know, anyone getting indicted by Robert Mueller was sort of a victim of the deep state and this, this hero. And, and so they position him as sort of like a martyr.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, but how did he go from that to being so heavily involved in the Q9 conspiracy?

[Will Sommer]

Sure.

[Sam Stein]

So.

[Will Sommer]

Well, a lot of them thought that he came to believe that he was Q or maybe working with Q.

[Sam Stein]

How does that happen?

[Will Sommer]

Well, they said, you know, who's Q?

[Sam Stein]

I'm not asking for personal advice. I don't want to. Just to be clear, I don't want to follow these footsteps. I'm very curious how someone ends up becoming so centralized in the Q9 conspiracy to the point where they're actually considered Q. Yeah.

[Will Sommer]

So, I mean, they, they were looking around for someone who, who they could believe in. And, and they, they said, well, you know, here's this guy who's already kind of into conspiracy theories. And they started to, you know, that he started going to their conventions and all that kind of stuff.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, that's two. And then he fits the mold as someone who could orchestrate a bunch of.

[Will Sommer]

Right, yes. Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. And he then, of course, pushed a lot of it.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, exactly. And so he starts promoting. I mean, his son got really into Pizzagate. He starts going to these conventions. He said that we should do a Myanmar style coup here against liberals he later claimed, oh, no, I wasn't really that in favor of the coup. Whatever. And so this is a guy who has been riding high and sort of remade himself after leaving government as like a hero to conspiracy theorists.

[Sam Stein]

And then since Trump's reelection, what has he been up to?

[Will Sommer]

Well, so, you know, he's been on the sidelines as far as we know. I mean, obviously he hasn't come back into government.

[Sam Stein]

Was I right to do I remember correctly that there's rumors that he might be part of the new administration at some point?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean, I, I think there certainly are rumors about it, but, you know, we, we haven't seen anything concrete. I don't think there's been any, like, serious reporting at the same time. You know, I wouldn't rule it out.

[Sam Stein]

I would. I'd be surprised. There are certain stoves you don't touch. All right, so. So here we have this guy. He's fairly active in the conspiracy theory community. His son is active in the community. He himself pushes conspiracy theories. And then what happens is he suddenly becomes embroiled in one. And in this case, the conspiracy is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that he had a role to play in essentially setting up the January 6th insurrection.

[Will Sommer]

Right, so. So in this case, the, the conspiracy theory is, and we can broadly call it kind of like the Flynn network. Is that Michael Flynn and his brother Charles, who. Who actually is a high ranking general in the military. Yes. And so there, there's this idea basically.

[Sam Stein]

Do they not find that weird that his brother is like a high ranking official and like he's out there like saying the most insane stuff possible. Is that not creating. I feel like that would create some conflicts or some problems for the brother. But maybe Mike.

[Will Sommer]

Well, yeah, we don't know what his brother thinks of Michael. I mean, maybe, you know, maybe I have a brother.

[Sam Stein]

I love my brother, and if he went crazy down rabbit holes, I would not disown him, but I would find it a little bit uncomfortable.

[Will Sommer]

You might say, hey, you know, cut me a break here.

[Sam Stein]

Sign offline, like, you know, put that on the phone. All right, sorry, back to the point. So Mike Flynn. What? He's supposed to be involved in January six. Why?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, so, you know, this is kind of. There's like a lot of dualities here. Sorry. So there's a lot of dualities here. I mean, on one hand, the, you know, they think January 6th was good, but also they think Michael Flynn set it up, and that's bad to entrap Trump people. So you know, there's kind of like a lot of under this conspiracy.

[Sam Stein]

Why would Michael Flynn do that?

[Will Sommer]

Well, because they think, you know, he teamed up with basically they, There are a lot of factions in QAnon world, I guess.

[Sam Stein]

Did I just stump you?

[Will Sommer]

Did.

[Sam Stein]

I think I just stumped Will?

[Will Sommer]

So, so there are a lot.

[Sam Stein]

The end of, end of Will's ability to explain the conspiracies. So wait, Michael Flynn facilitated January 6th because he wanted to set up these Trumpers and get them in trouble with law enforcement? Yeah, but we don't know why he would do that.

[Will Sommer]

Well, basically the idea is that he's still working for the deep state, you know, that he was sort of what you might say he was sheep dipped. Right. And so that means that. I don't know what that looks. They made it. It basically means that they kind of gave him this cover identity as this conspiracy theory hero so that he could lead all these, these, you know, these right wingers, these Trump supporters.

[Sam Stein]

Long con, isn't it? That's like a, that's like a four year con that he ran to get to this point.

[Will Sommer]

It is. I mean, you know, basically a lot of this dates back to Michael Flynn's feud with these people called in the Matrix and another gentleman named Shady Groove. And these gentlemen, they used to be buddy buddy. QAnon people with him, they had a falling out. It's really kind of complex and boring, frankly. It's kind of like internal QAnon drama. But basically, as a result, they have turned on him. And so now cut to this week, this month, where Michael Flynn, this gentleman named Earl Matthews, has been nominated to be the Pentagon's general counsel. So like the top lawyer at the Pentagon. But he has beef with the Flynn family going back to January 6th because basically he, he was working for the national guard in D.C. he felt that Charles Flynn, the brother, kind of threw the National Guard under the bus and said, you know, they were, they were too late to get to January 6th to stop it. And so from this, a lot of conspiracy theor criticizing the Flynn family and saying, well, maybe Michael Flynn and his brother caused this to happen and this guy who's kind of waging his own internal military feud is, is providing grist for that.

[Sam Stein]

Well, what I found most interesting about Earl Matthews, I suppose was that he's awaiting confirmation to a post and he's out there just doing all this crazy shit.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, so, so this is funny. So his criticism of Flynn was picked up by QAnon people who now hate Flynn and they, including they made a rap about it where it's like, you know, Earl's here. He's so snide. The Flynn Network has nothing to hide. Yeah, I'd love to.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, we're going to play.

[Will Sommer]

Might enjoy it.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, let's play.

[C]

There's a reason yo they duck and they weed Flynn Network sh. Can't let you believe Earl Matthew's name they won't let it shine but the truth's breaking free It's a matter of time Reasons they hide reasons they lie Patriots, opposers let's look in their eyes.

[Sam Stein]

All right, so there's the wrap.

[Will Sommer]

So he reposts that. He reposts a QAnon video about, you know, Flynn's panicking because Earl's in charge. You know, this guy. This is like. This guy is otherwise presents as like, a pretty, like, straightforward military guy, but.

[Sam Stein]

He'S just like, again, he's up for a post. Like, you know, like, usually people are just like, I'm gonna be quiet. I'm gonna, like, get into the post. You know, my career is on the line. I don't want to maybe gamble with it by going online and spouting nonsense. But not Earl. Earl's just out there.

[Will Sommer]

No, he's really. And this is the world we live in. I think is the broader point is that, like, you have these. These we already saw, like, for example, like, Laura Loomer purge the National Security Council. And now we see this. This guy who's trying to get confirmed, and he's saying, you know, Michael Flynn standing in my way. And also, here's a rap about how cool I am.

[Sam Stein]

So Flynn's Flynn. Does Flynn see the irony at all in the fact that he's been pushing conspiracies and now is being consumed by one?

[Will Sommer]

Flynn is absolutely blowing his lid over this. I mean, he is tweeting. He's like, you know, and because he's kind of an older guy, he's using this kind of weird terminology. He said, me and my family are tired of being a pin cushion for the mob and all this. And so there's this. There is this irony that he was like, Mr. Conspiracy Theory, and now he's, you know, the victim of one. But I don't think he has a sense of humor about it.

[Sam Stein]

No, probably not. All right, well, we'll be watching to see what he does with this. And maybe they'll just eat each other. And I'm very curious to see if Earl Matthews ends up at the Pentagon. So keep us posted on that, will Summer. Thanks. So much. Really appreciate this update on the weirdest part of our politics. As always, subscribe to the feed and we'll catch you later.