Sam Stein (3:57)

2021.

Political Analyst (3:57)

2021. Sorry. After. After the 2020 election. In 2021, after the January 6th attempts to overturn the election, Democrats, who at the time were the majority in the House, voted to impeach. And you needed 17, I believe, total Republican, like they needed. Yes.

Sam Stein (4:15)

So the situation is it's 50, 50 Senate, and you need 67 for a conviction. So if you get seven, you're still 10 short.

Political Analyst (4:23)

You're still 10 short. But here's those 10 were probably there. And the way that you would have gotten those 10 at the time is if Mitch McConnell had said, I'm whipping votes for this. Like, we're going to do this. We're all going to go down together. And Mitch McConnell gave a somewhat famous speech at the time in which he said that Trump was morally and temperamentally responsible for the events of the day, but that he thought the legal system, the legal system was there to take care of Trump.

Sam Stein (4:55)

Boy, was he right.

Political Analyst (4:58)

They nailed that one. And I guess, you know, this is when Trump starts making racist attacks against Mitch McConnell's wife, Elaine Chao, who resigned from the administration. She was a cabinet member. And so I guess I'm curious, Sam, because I've been sitting here thinking about this ignominious or tragic as a man who sat at a hinge point in history, right. Made the wrong call, and now has his legacy torched and is personally being humiliated on, on basically a daily basis and is doing to me, taking one flaccid protest vote after another, that is essentially meaningless because he's. He let everybody off the hook for so long. But tell me how you think about it.

Sam Stein (5:47)

Oh, I don't know if there's a good answer to this. Um, there is a tragic element to this, if you look at it, but there's also a sort of a you made your bed element. I understand why people look at Mitch McConnell and say, too little, too late. This is your fault. You built this kind of Frankenstein's monster situation. And then I also understand people who look at what he's doing and say, at least someone. Right. Because I think if we had truth serum or if we just sort of were being honest about it, McConnell's vote, his votes probably represent where, what, a quarter to a third of the Republican Senate caucuses, for sure. Spiritually. Right. Like, if they had no, if they had any spine, if they had no concern about, you know, being primaried, I think it would be very fair to say that we'd have no Robert Kennedy at hhs, no Cash Patel potentially at FBI, certainly no Hegseth. So it's. It, to a degree, it's at least, you know, important to have one person make this case, this, have the moral clarity to make this case. And if it has to be McConnell, so be it. Then again, you look at it and you say, this is your doing. If anyone is responsible for Trump, other than, you know, Trump himself and the. In the voters who support him, it's McConnell. I mean, it really is. He laid the groundwork for the Republican Party to embrace this. And at any point, he could have, and he did have the power to push them towards an off ramp, and he didn't take it because power was ultimately too alluring for him. And now, in a weird Shakespearean way, he's without power and he's frail, and he's at the last chapter of his public career, at least, and he's casting these largely ineffectual but morally clarifying votes and maybe makes him feel good, and maybe makes him feel like he's made up for some past sins that he committed. But again, they are ineffectual. Right. Like, it's just a vote and we'll forget it and the damage is done.

Political Analyst (7:45)

Yeah, I. I guess I want to both. I both want to recognize the tragedy of it all and, and sort of acknowledge that.

Sam Stein (7:55)

Well, I guess. Hold on, let me ask you. Do you think. How do you think he feels bad? Like, I, I don't want to play too much of, like, a psychoanalyst here. Put him on the Couch. But, like, do you think he looks at this and says, I need to repent, or do you think he's just feeling liberated because he's no longer in leadership? Is it a mix of both? Is he angry because of Trump's attacks on Elaine Chao? Is he worried about his legacy?

Political Analyst (8:15)

I think he is somebody who is humiliated, who is grappling with his life choices. I, I suspect at the. What is, you know, he's 82, I believe, and starting to suffer real health challenges. And if I were him, I think, you know, looking at rfk, like, looking at what he helped to unleash and not helped, like in the, oh, I was a Republican, want, you know, like, at a. Again, I want to. He is a hinge point figure. Historically, he did this in a way that he was uniquely suited to have taken us down a different path and chose not to. And so I think that, yeah, he is doing this now not as a liberated person. Again, I would refer to them as sort of flaccid attempts to just register, probably a despair, register the idea that this is wrong and he doesn't think it's the right way to go. But here's the thing I do not like. And, and I, I push back against myself all the time. One thing I try to remember, or a rule I try to live by is it's never too late to do the right thing. And so when somebody does the right thing, I do not like to jump on them reflexively and say, yeah, but if you had done things this way or whatever, okay? Because I just, I don't think that's helpful. And I don't think it's a good way to incentivize people to do the right thing.

Sam Stein (9:50)

Right.

Political Analyst (9:51)

However, in this case, I've been thinking about this today, in this particular case of Mitch McConnell, I do think he is ignominious. I do think that the disgrace that he feels is deserved and not because he couldn't have seen this coming. I understand sort of not being able to see this coming, but you said something earlier that I think is at the heart of it, which, which is a lust for power. And I think that Mitch McConnell was well known for being a tremendous tactician, but he, in his own way, in his own lust for power, did a lot to break down the norms of sort of civility of the body of the Senate, not confirming Merrick Garland and doing some of the things. And look, the Republicans and the Democrats, I could point both ways, like, Republicans will take you all the way back to Bork about how unfair that was. And you could litigate this thing. It gets very Israel, Palestine, very f. You're back into the. Into the early days of who did what when. But Mitch McConnell made a series of bad choices for power that he knew were wrong for the Republican Party, that he knew were wrong for the country. And I do think he's going to sort of live out the rest of his life looking at what he's sort of what he wrought and regretting it deeply. And I think he should regret it deeply.

Sam Stein (11:21)

And I think there's the other irony here, which is I don't know if this is true, but he's always described as an institutionalist, and I think a lot of people kind of found that to be ridiculous because they don't view him that way, his critics. But he viewed himself that way, and his institution that he cared about the most was Congress and the Senate. And he leaves or will be leaving office with the institution of Congress greatly diminished. Right. Like here we have a situation where Donald Trump has basically decided he doesn't really care what Congress does, and he's basically browbeat Congress to his submission, and he's going to take back, like, the ability of Congress to determine appropriations, and, you know, he's going to stuff these terribly unqualified nominees for federal agencies down the throat and say, hey, screw you. If you don't do it, I'm going to primary you. I'm going to do this in a recess appointment. And so this whole idea of McConnell as an institutionalist, that was his North Star, which I don't believe power was his North Star. But if you think of him as an institutionalist, he will have presided over the great diminishment of his institution. And I think that has to hang over his head a little bit that he will leave, you know, office with the presidency never having been more powerful.

Political Analyst (12:39)

Yeah, I think that is true. And I. But I guess I'm also. It's not that I'm going to resist giving him credit for being the lone Republican vote here, because once again, he's not using his power to whip any other votes or any. I mean, his power, you know, and still, because he has these, like, weird, quirky ways in which he cares about the institution, like he doesn't want to get Thune's way and like, you know, and who knows what. Just like in just a general. What his energy level is for a fight and, you know, whatever. But I do think from a historical perspective, I think a lot about what it took for us to get here With Trump. And I think if you went to Mitch McConnell before he decided to vote on impeachment and you showed him the future and you said, even Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski are going to vote to confirm to the Cabinet. And if you don't vote for impeachment.

Sam Stein (13:38)

Like, you'd be like the.

Political Analyst (13:41)

Yeah, like, he's like, I just. But I just went through a whole term of this. How could we be. I'd like. No, you're insane. No, you're crazy. This will never happen.

Sam Stein (13:50)

AI simulation. What are you talking about?

Political Analyst (13:52)

That's right. I think that if you could show Mitch McConnell where we are right now, like the ghost of Christmas Past or whatever goes and visits him and. And says.

Sam Stein (14:02)

Or it would be the Ghost of Christmas Future.

Political Analyst (14:04)

It would have been the Ghost of Christmas Future. But back then. Right. And so if. If that had happened, I think he would have 100% been like, all right, guys, we're all doing this together. We're gonna impeach this guy and he's never gonna be able to do this again.

Sam Stein (14:16)

No way. Yeah.

Political Analyst (14:17)

And of course, he thought of insane.

Sam Stein (14:19)

To think of this. And it was insane six months ago. This was totally insane.

Political Analyst (14:24)

And this is why I won't let him off the hook. I won't let him off the hook because he should. The guy just tried to overthrow the government. And the response was, I'm going to do nothing. I'm going to do nothing about it.

Sam Stein (14:35)

And so I think ultimately that's it. Right. This just comes down to January 6th. It's like some horrible, horrible trauma happened to our body politic. Nothing like we've seen before. And everyone knew it was bad. And the guy who is a Machiavellian obsessed with power decided in that moment he was not going to use his power.

Political Analyst (14:54)

That's right.

Sam Stein (14:55)

And that was that.

Political Analyst (14:56)

And that was.

Sam Stein (14:56)

And that's why we're here.

Political Analyst (14:58)

And that's why we're here. Nobody. We can get mad. And I think there is. Right now, I also want to be careful of, like, I'm. I'm very. A lot of us have a place we're looking to put sort of our anger at what is currently happening. And I hesitate because I think, you know, there's a lot of places you could put it that are unfair or where you would be dramatically overstating what they could have done about it.

Sam Stein (15:19)

Right.

Political Analyst (15:19)

That's not true of Mitch McConnell. It's not true.

Ryan (15:22)

Right.

Political Analyst (15:23)

I have more Merrick Garland. That was a really to. Those were some pretty tough calls. I Get very frustrated that they move so slowly. I think they should have proceeded on the January six case in the documents case. You know, like much. But like, I can understand why as an institution, you go from the bottom up on prosecuting the January. You know, I can understand in a way that Mitch McConnell's failure was so clear and so wrong and it is his fault, like putting the anger on Mitch McConnell. And it's fair, I think.

Sam Stein (16:00)

And even if, even if he couldn't have whipped 10 extra votes, there is sort of a question of more of personal character tonight. Tried, right. Like he should have tried. And I think, I think if you're right, that the ghost of Christmas Future came to him in that moment, he would have gone back and said, yeah, you know, I'm, I, you know, I, I don't want this future and I don't think this is the right future. And frankly, I was wrong to assume that the justice system would have taken care of this guy. Anyways, we'll see. We still have the cash. Patel, full Senate vote next week or maybe this weekend. I don't know. Not. I'm not. I don't. I assume he'll get through. We're in a weird place. It is what it is. I will say Mitch is an interesting. At least with McConnell, there's a. Interesting debate around what he's thinking with some of these other, other senators, it's, it's very clear that they're just protecting themselves.

Political Analyst (16:53)

So, you know, and we talked about this a little bit on the next level, but just for people who haven't gone through the whole show to get to the end, I would like to restate for, for this, the fact that Murkowski and Collins, like, it actually shouldn't be that hard to muster for Republican votes against these guys, but the fact that Murkowski and Collins and Tillis, Cassidy, some of these others are all confirming people who are by any objective measure totally unqualified, if not outright dangerous. I would like to say, like, moderate Republicans aren't good for anything anymore. Like, I used to be a big defender of them. And I just, I want to say, because I thought there was. It's important to have those people represented. Not anymore. We should absolutely defeat Susan Collins. Like Susan Collins, I, she should needs to lose her next Senate race.

Sam Stein (17:45)

She'll be talking with the RFK one, with the RFK one especially. And we can, we don't have to go much further than this. But in that case, it's not that it was, you know, you can make the case that it's not even like he's not a Republican nominee. Right? Like you can, you can oppose him on grounds that he has a lengthy history of advocating for abortion rights, that he's a crank and a conspiracist, that you know, all this stuff that he wants to do with health, which I personally support. But it wasn't so long ago that Republicans said, why is the government telling us what we can and cannot feed our kids? Right. Like there are ideological ways to oppose him and maintain your conservative credentials. All the conservative press outlets were opposed to the guy. And yet, you know, like you said, the so called moderate block in the Senate of Republicans just did not show at all.

Political Analyst (18:37)

And so what are. There's no, there's no, there's no difference then like if you're not going to use your, your sort of maverick card on Cash Patel or on Tulsi Gabbard or then like what's the point of having you there?

Sam Stein (18:51)

You're not.

Political Analyst (18:52)

If that's not. If that's not. If your limiting principle doesn't stop you at goes like, then who, who cares?

Sam Stein (19:00)

Yeah, like if, if you're just going to stand up for a few EPA grants in your state, like you're kind of missing the boat here. I think that's right. The high stakes are the more prone. All right, Sarah, thanks so much. Really appreciate you doing this. Thank you guys for tuning in. Thank you. Subscribe. We got to get that pizza. Take care.

Political Analyst (19:15)

Gotta get that pizza. Bye bye.

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