MTG on The View: Truth-Teller, Grifter or... Something Else?

Summary

Bulwark Takes — MTG on The View: Truth-Teller, Grifter or... Something Else?

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Hosts: Tim O'Brien, Sam Stein
Date: November 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes features Tim O'Brien and managing editor Sam Stein unpacking Marjorie Taylor Greene’s latest media tour, highlighted by her appearances on Real Time with Bill Maher and The View. They examine MTG’s evolving public persona, her break from certain MAGA orthodoxies, and what her recent rhetoric — on healthcare, populism, and conspiracy franchises — signals for the future of the populist right and Trump’s grip on it. The hosts debate whether her motivations stem from personal ambition, genuine principle, or simply an appetite for attention.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Theories Behind MTG’s Evolution (00:30–04:34)

• Attention vs. Ambition:

  • Sam Stein outlines two prevailing theories:
    • MTG is harnessing the “new populist mantle” to carve a lane for herself as Trump fatigue sets in. (01:23)
    • Alternatively, she’s engaging in performative provocation—a classic attention economy play.
  • Tim O’Brien proposes a spite theory: MTG’s break from the party may be payback for lack of support for higher office in Georgia. (02:24)
  • Quote:
    • “In the attention economy, being provocative and stirring the pot is good no matter what. And one way to differentiate yourself from a pack of people who are just like, lemmings following Donald Trump is to occasionally not follow Donald Trump.” — Sam Stein, 01:23

• Populist Inflection Point:

  • Tim stresses the practical irrelevance of MTG’s motivation compared to the effect — i.e., whether her critiques portend a real crackup of the populist right. (03:43)

2. The “Rebrand” and Conspiracy Theories on The View (05:12–07:27)

• Public Confrontation:

  • The View hosts directly challenge MTG over her prior conspiracy theories and confrontational style, noting she seems changed:
    • “I feel like I’m sitting next to a completely different Marjorie Taylor Greene. Why the change?” — View Host, 05:28
  • MTG reframes, denying genuine change and claiming victimhood to media lies, while counter-accusing both sides of conspiracy-peddling (i.e., “Russian collusion was a lie”). (06:03–06:47)

• Notable Exchange:

  • Asked if she’s moved past QAnon:
    • “Oh, I went over that a long time ago. ... I was a victim, just like you were, of media lies and stuff you read on social media.” — Marjorie Taylor Greene, 06:44–06:48

• Hosts’ Reaction:

  • Tim and Sam are skeptical, warning against a “strange new respect” attitude, and stress not to “whitewash” MTG’s past rhetoric. (07:27)
    • “I think it’s not fair to just say, okay, you’ve changed and thank you for your journey to this more respectable person. … It doesn’t absolve some of the stuff she said and done.” — Sam Stein, 07:27

3. Anti-Semitism and Free Speech: The Nick Fuentes Question (08:31–10:52)

• On Anti-Semitism:

  • MTG, questioned about Nick Fuentes, sidesteps forceful condemnation, focusing instead on defending the First Amendment:
    • “First, I’m not anti Semitic, but I am critical of the Israeli government. … I don’t have to agree with his words on attacking people like that. However ... I think the most important thing we can have as Americans is our free speech.” — MTG, 09:34–09:50

• Critical Response:

  • Tim and Sam note the “passive beyond passive” rebuke.
    • “She didn’t say, I disagree with what he said. She said, I don’t have to agree. Yeah, passive effort.” — Tim O'Brien, 10:16
    • “That one underwhelmed. I gotta be honest. ... It doesn’t mean you’re anti free speech to say, hey, this guy’s repugnant. That’s someone who’s actually repugnant.” — Sam Stein, 10:35

4. Healthcare Populism – The Real Policy Break (11:22–14:49)

• The Party Has No Plan:

  • MTG has repeatedly called out GOP leadership for their lack of a healthcare plan, breaking ranks on a core kitchen table issue.
    • “Basically she like, she settled on a talking point of, we don’t have a plan. This is a real crisis. Healthcare is very expensive. I’ve asked Mike Johnson to come up with a plan. He doesn’t have one. And show me the lie. I guess basically there is no lie.” — Tim O'Brien, 12:07
  • Sam underscores the truth and rarity of MTG’s candor on this issue, calling GOP leadership’s stance “bullshit”. (12:10–13:27)
    • “It’s just a sack of bullshit lies about healthcare that the party’s trying to use to just get out of this government funding debate. ... What makes it so problematic is that it is true.” — Sam Stein, 13:03

• Populist Right Vulnerability:

  • Tim notes MTG is expressing frustration that “actually resonates with the base”—especially around working-class concerns often ignored by Trump and leadership. (13:27–14:49)
  • “This is the type of critique she is delivering, [and] is the one that would be the most likely to cause [Trump] political trouble within his own coalition.” — Tim O'Brien, 19:45

5. Weak Republican Men – MTG’s Culture War Riffs (15:17–16:24)

• Critiquing Leadership:
  • MTG calls out “weak Republican men” in leadership and earns rare applause from The View’s audience. She continues mixing populist grievances with traditional right-wing talking points, albeit with mixed policy coherence. (15:37)

6. Why The Populist Right Could Crack (17:18–20:40)

• Old School Populism Missing:

  • Stein and O'Brien reflect on the missing “economic stuff” in today’s right-populist coalition, noting Trump’s focus on culture war neglects the “chicken in every pot” tradition. (17:18)
  • They argue that if a true populist-right defection occurs, led by someone from inside the faction — like MTG — it is far more dangerous to the MAGA coalition than defections from the “center right.” (18:12–20:09)

• Future Political Trouble for Trump:

  • “If she is a harbinger of things to come, that is problematic for him to lose that populist right ... This is the type of critique she is delivering [that] is the one that would be the most likely to cause him political trouble within his own coalition.” — Tim O'Brien, 20:09

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Insight | |-----------|--------------------|---------------| | 01:23 | Sam Stein | “In the attention economy, being provocative and stirring the pot is good no matter what...” | | 03:43 | Tim O'Brien | “Whether it’s for attention or for spite or for genuine, the scales have fallen from her eyes...what she’s reflecting matters because Trump’s populism is hollow.” | | 06:44 | MTG | “Oh, I went over that [QAnon] a long time ago...I was a victim, just like you were, of media lies and stuff you read...” | | 09:34 | MTG | “First, I’m not anti Semitic, but I am critical of the Israeli government...” | | 10:16 | Tim O'Brien | “Not exactly a fervent dismissal of Nick Fuentes. There—very, at most, a lukewarm kind of passive tense.” | | 12:07 | Tim O'Brien | “Basically...we don’t have a plan. This is a real crisis. Healthcare is very expensive. I’ve asked Mike Johnson to come up with a plan. He doesn’t have one...” | | 13:03 | Sam Stein | “It’s just a sack of bullshit lies about healthcare that the party’s trying to use to just get out of this government funding debate...” | | 15:37 | MTG | “When I talk about weak Republican men, I’m pretty much talking oftentimes about the leadership in the House and the Senate...” | | 19:45 | Tim O'Brien | “This is the type of critique she is delivering...the most likely to cause [Trump] political trouble within his own coalition.” |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:30–05:12: Theories about MTG’s strategy and motivations.
• 05:28–07:27: The View confrontation: past conspiracy theories, claims of change, and MTG’s rebuttal.
• 09:04–10:52: MTG’s answer on Nick Fuentes and anti-Semitism, host reactions.
• 11:22–14:49: Discussion of healthcare populism and the right’s vulnerability on pocketbook issues.
• 15:37–16:24: MTG’s attacks on “weak Republican men” and interplay with cultural and economic grievances.
• 17:18–20:09: Why a populist-right rebellion would threaten Trump far more than center-right defections.

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Tone and Takeaways

• The Bulwark hosts alternate between skepticism, humor, and dismay at both the media’s handling of MTG and the GOP’s ongoing policy vacuums.
• Both hosts refuse to “absolve” MTG for past conspiracy-mongering but acknowledge her current populist critiques are substantive—and notably absent in the rest of the MAGA right.
• The episode closes on a speculative note: If MTG represents the vanguard of a real populist-right revolt, Trump faces genuine trouble not from discipline or shame, but from within his own base.

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Summary Usefulness:
This episode is an incisive look at the complexities of right-populist politics in the Trump era. It’s useful for understanding the evolving role of figures like MTG and where potential realignment in Republican politics may occur—not over values or institutions, but basic economic populism.

Transcript

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[Tim O'Brien]

Hey, everybody. Tim O from the Bulwark, here with managing editor Sam Stein, who thinks he is funny, others think he is repugnant. You know, the different views, different strokes. Different strokes. We're here to talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene. She's fresh off her star turn on Real Timers with Bill Maher. And then she was on the View today, and it was pretty chummy on the View. And we want to play the clips from you for you. But before we do that, Sam, I'm wondering, do you have a kind of global theory on what's going on with Marjorie Taylor Greene? You want to share with the group?

[Sam Stein]

Sure. Well, first off, fact check. One person thought I was repugnant. It was Stephen Miller. And I wear that with honor and pride. Okay. People have actually brought that up to me. Be like, why did Stephen Miller say that? And congratulations.

[Tim O'Brien]

We should mention, since it's election day, Andrew Cuomo. Endorser Stephen Miller.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim O'Brien]

Proud endorser of Andrew Cuomo for Mayor Steven Miller.

[Sam Stein]

It was a real. It was a real trio of winners that went to Cuomo yesterday. Trump, then Musk and Miller. At the end of the day, Cuomo must have been like, what the hell did I do for mtg? You know, it's. It's interesting. There's, like, there's two theories. One is that this is kind of a. I want to take the new populist mantle of Republican politics that everyone seems to have forgotten. You know, like the Josh Holly types who were doing this in 2024. And he, to a degree, Vance. Right. And just run with it. And I. I have my lane. That's one theory. The other theory is that in the attention economy, being provocative and stirring the pot is good no matter what. And one way to differentiate yourself from a pack of people who are just like, lemmings following Donald Trump is to occasionally not follow Donald Trump. Now, you could do, like, the Tom Massey version of this. Right. And you could do the MTG version of this, which is slightly different than Massey. And I kind of find myself going back and forth between the two of those theories.

[Tim O'Brien]

What about the MC that she's spurned, she's unhappy that the party didn't endorse her or support her for the Senate or governors run in Georgia, both are up next year. And that she is pissed and bitter. And this is all about spite.

[Sam Stein]

What's the end game in that scenario?

[Tim O'Brien]

I don't know. Maybe she's not a 40, not a.

[Sam Stein]

Long term thinker here.

[Tim O'Brien]

Minute by minute thinker. I don't know. I'm with you on not knowing. And to me it kind of doesn't matter. I get frustrated, you see, I see this thing, you know, from, from people, from, you know, people who are consumers of whatever you want to call it, resistance media. From like pundits criticizing people who are like, oh, there's a strange new respect for mtg. You don't have to hand it to mtg. Like, don't be fooled, don't get the wool pulled over your eyes. But MTG for like my perspective, I'm like, I'm not fooled by mtg. I mean, she is what she is. Like, she's a, she shoots from the hip, she's extreme, she has wild and wacky views. She expressed some of them, which we'll show you from the view. And she talked on Bill Maher kind of did a side about how she thinks aliens might be fallen angels. I mean MTG is still be an mtg. I see clear eyed what we have with her. But what she is reflecting now, whether it's genuine or not does not really matter to me. Is important because Trump's populism is hollow. And if there is ever going to be a toppling of the populist right maga Right, it is going to have to come from people who respond to populist entreaties. Like we have tried the effort where my people, college educated suburban Republicans get brought over. There aren't enough of us. Okay? There are more non college people in the country. There are more people who are attracted to populist politics. And so that there has to be a crack up over there somewhere. And if MTG is part of that crack up, whether it's for attention or for spite or for genuine, the scales have fallen from her eyes and she realizes that Trump's a phony. Like whatever it is, it doesn't matter to me because there is, there's a truth in, in her statements regardless of whether there's good intention and what's behind them.

[Sam Stein]

And you also got to sort of say, you know, we can't, politics can't be so binary. You can't be absolutist about everything. Right. Like you shouldn't be a hundred percent in agreement with everything that your party advocates and associates. You should have issues that jump between various factions. Otherwise you're kind of dull right now. Do I agree with MTG on the issue of chemtrails? Yes. No, I don't agree with her. Do I agree in Jewish space, lasers? Maybe. I have my thoughts.

[Tim O'Brien]

Well, we, we have a. That takes us nice to the view because the lasers were brought up. And so I'd like to pull up here the clip d on whether Marjorie Taylor Greene has changed.

[Spinquest Disclaimer Voice]

Woman.

[View Host]

You've also had these clips highlighting the public, very public spats that you've had with your colleagues, where your behavior, some say, is just unbecoming for a congresswoman. And you're promoting conspiracy theories like QAnon in the past, but you seem to have grown past that. And I feel like I'm sitting next to a completely different Marjorie Taylor Greene. Why the change? Why the evolution?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Well, funny, it's like you've gone so right.

[View Host]

It's like you're on the left now.

[Tim O'Brien]

It's like this.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I'm not on the left. And we could talk about Russian collusion. That was a conspiracy theory and a lie. There's lies that come from both sides. Let's be really honest with each other.

[View Host]

Well, the Russian did try to affect Russia.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Collusion with Donald Trump was an absolute lie. And all the information's coming out. So both sides have had their lies. But here's where I'm at. All of this, this two party fighting. You guys, you are all victims of the political industrial complex and it's built on fundraising and fighting and toxic, toxic, just garbage. And that exists all over social media. But that's not going to solve our problems in this country.

[View Host]

Would you say you don't believe in the QAnon conspiracies anymore?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Oh, I went over that a long time ago. I mean, we.

[View Host]

So you've changed.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Well, no, I, I haven't changed. I was a victim, just like you were of, of. Of media lies and stuff you read on social media. You all have attacked me many times on the show.

[View Host]

Because we have.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Because of things that you read about.

[View Host]

Me that weren't true or clips we've.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Seen or clips you've seen. Not even true.

[Tim O'Brien]

Let's take a second.

[Sam Stein]

I'm getting the.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I know, I see, I see.

[Tim O'Brien]

So they bailed her out there. So I guess if Marjorie comes on the Bulwark, which she is invited on, I've already invited her. We'll have to do a little follow up on what was rebuffed exactly. About the Jewish space laser.

[Sam Stein]

No, let me, can I jump in on there? Because I was just gonna finish my thought about that. You know, I don't want to whitewash that stuff. And I think it's not fair to just say, okay, you've changed and thank you for, you know, your journey to this more respectable person. And, you know, I'm, if she genuinely believes that she was the victim, as she said, of, you know, the political industrial complex, whatever that is, or that she got bought into conspiracy theories and she saw the light or everyone is problematic, great. I'm happy for her. Congrats. But it doesn't absolve some of the stuff she said and done. And I think it's important to, you know, not just absolve her of it, but you can, you can have that. And you can also say it's good that she is willing to speak out and call hard truths against her party and say, you know, we do need to release the Epstein files or, you know, we don't have a healthcare plan. Like, we're talking about all this stuff and we've never produced a plan in 12 years. You can have both those opinions of Marjorie Taylor Greene at the same time. I don't think it's problematic to hold those two viewpoints simultaneously.

[Tim O'Brien]

I, I, I wasn't really tricked by any of those things. So I guess that's one thing that me and Marjorie don't share. I, I did enjoy that. Meliss nodding There something you gotta watch out for when you're interviewing a crazy person is the facial reactions. I'll be talking to Alyssa about that in the future. I wanna go to the healthcare thing, which is the main populist issue that she has spurned the party on. But like before we do, just while we're sitting on the Jewish spaceflazers and Jewish conspiracies and while we have, you know, the representative of the tribe here to speak about the topic, she was asked about Nick Fuentes and anti Semitism in the party.

[Sam Stein]

I saw that and I don't the.

[Tim O'Brien]

Answer was didn't really knock my socks off. As far coming around at anti Semitism. Let's, let's watch it.

[Interviewer on Nick Fuentes Question]

There seems to be a significant divide on the right over whether to give a platform to noted white supremacist Nick Fuentes. Many prominent conservatives like Ben Shapiro, Senator Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz, they've spoken out against amplifying him. You two have Had a complicated relationship over, over the years. But at a moment when anti Semitism is on the rise, where do you stand on this?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Well, first, I'm not anti Semitic, but I am critical of the Israeli government.

[Interviewer on Nick Fuentes Question]

Well, I just mean domestically speaking, because a lot of Nick Fuentes words are.

[View Host]

He.

[Interviewer on Nick Fuentes Question]

He hits every group, but very much just Jewish people in general. Not. That's not Israel, Jewish people.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Well, number one, I don't have to agree with his words on attacking people like that. However, as a lawmaker, I think it's incredibly important that I defend our First Amendment for every single American. Of course, that does not apply to death threats or anything like that. However, I think the most important thing we can have as Americans is our free speech. And it can be speech that I either agree with or completely disagree with.

[Tim O'Brien]

Now I'm with her on the free speech, but not exactly a fervent dismissal of Nick Fuentes. There very at most a lukewarm kind of passive tense. I don't have to agree. She didn't say, I disagree with what he said. She said, I don't have to agree. Yeah, passive effort.

[Sam Stein]

Passive beyond passive. It's unbelievable. Yeah, no, that one underwhelmed. I gotta be honest. I would like her to go a little bit further in condemning Nick Fuentes. Doesn't mean you're anti free speech. To say, hey, this guy's repugnant. That's someone who's actually repugnant.

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[Tim O'Brien]

Indeed. Something interesting. Choice of words. Deplorable, you might say. Okay, so the main thing, the main two issues that she has kind of separated herself on are the release of the Epstein files and the healthcare question. For me, the healthcare one is more interesting because it's an actual, actual policy issue. And she's discussed like on all of these shows, on Bill Maher on this show, you know, basically she like, she settled on a talking point of, of we don't have a plan. This is a real crisis. Healthcare is very expensive. I've asked Mike Johnson to come up with a plan. He doesn't have one and show me the lie. I guess basically there is no lie.

[Sam Stein]

No lie. I mean, I guess the reason that this one stings is because this whole debate right now about the government is, can you do something to make sure that subsidies, sorry, that premiums do not go through the roof, which they are, because the sticker shock is coming right now, even though the policies take effect in the new year. And Johnson's been evading it by saying, well, you know, we've got this proposal and you know, we can work on this very quickly and yada, yada, yada. And the truth is, as our Jonathan Cohen has pointed out repeatedly, is it's, it's just. And they've been saying this stuff for a decade plus. The plan's always two weeks away. It's always not in time, even though they say that's right around the corner. And at least with Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's just calling it out, which is that it's bullshit. Now the next step would be to maybe put together a plan or to be part of a group to put together a plan. I don't anticipate that from her, but it would be nice and interesting to see if she did it. But at least she's saying the truth, which is that this is just a sack of bullshit lies about healthcare that the party's trying to use to just get out of this government funding debate. And I'm sure it really greats on Mike Johnson and leadership team that it's coming from inside the House. But what makes it so problematic is that it is true.

[Tim O'Brien]

Yeah. And the fact that it's true, it's like I think the thing, which is again, which is why the motivations don't matter to me because like the things she's talking about resonate is if you, if you listen to any populist right type media people who are not doing just Trump hagiography, you know, Tim Dillon is one I've picked up recently. All of the topics that he talks about are the same things that she does. Like the things that they're pissed about Trump on are Israel funding. There may be some anti Semitism wrapped up in that, but there also are some legit policy issues with Israel. Yeah. Two, health care. They're talking specifically about working class people, the people that MAGA is supposed to represent. Maybe there's some racism wrapped up in that, but they're talking about working class white people. But that would include everybody. You can't just give health care to white people, at least so far in this country. So that's two. She's heading on hitting on that Epstein files because they've all, you know, been talking about that. And so she is just, like, reflecting, like, a real frustration out there on all those points. And the health care issue is the one that is most tangible, that people are going to actually, you know, it's going to actually affect their lives, at least in this country. And, like, you could do a populist version of what she's doing, which is like, sure, we should let the subsidies expire for, like, the early retiree boomer class that, like, doesn't need it, but, like, working class, working families need.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, something like that. Well, let me ask you something.

[Tim O'Brien]

Okay.

[Sam Stein]

First, let's just. What if she's right? Like, what if she's got her finger on the pulse here? Like that? It would be very interesting. And what's very curious is that has the White House actually, like, gone after her?

[Tim O'Brien]

No.

[Sam Stein]

Have they said anything about her?

[Tim O'Brien]

I'd have to go back and look at the transfer. Whether they said anything.

[Sam Stein]

I shouldn't recall it.

[Tim O'Brien]

Not, not a. Not, not. Not. They haven't meaningful. Like, I don't know what's going on with Marjorie or something. It's like from.

[Sam Stein]

He's like Primary Thomas Matzi.

[Tim O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly. But Marjorie, now, if you go through the clips on real time and on the View, she's nice to Trump. Like, she is nasty to the House and Senate leadership. Actually, just for a little fun, because we're having fun, let's watch what she has to say about House and Senate leadership. Another truth bump.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I think there's a lot of paid social media influencers, and I found it very interesting that they were the MAGA account counts, but they're all paid. And they all attacked me when I announced I was coming to join you ladies on the View. And I think that's very weak and pathetic. But when I talk about weak Republican men, I'm pretty much talking oftentimes about the leadership in the House and the Senate, and they're just, they're not getting our agenda done. I've got so many bills. I have a bill. You guys in New York.

[Tim O'Brien]

That's enough. This is a stupid bill. Applause from the View. Her next bill is not populous, by the way. Just looks like she's still trying to find her footing here. She's like, capital gains tax cuts. It's like, okay, Marjorie. The weak Republican men, Mike Johnson and John Thune, getting applause in the audience.

[Sam Stein]

Weak Republican men. You could imagine Nancy Pelosi saying that.

[Tim O'Brien]

But if it was just Epstein, right? If it was just the resentment stuff, like, it wouldn't pack the same punch. I mean, people would still like it. They'd play clips. Libs would cheer for it, right? Because, like, whatever, we'll take. You know, anti Republicans won everything. So people that oppose don't take anything they get these days. But the healthcare thing is really something. People are really gonna feel pain. And Trump, I think, would like to fix it. Doesn't know how. And Margie's kind of in the same boat, but it kind of like, speaks to this weakness of the populist right coalition, which is like, there's lips. Or like, they do the culture war stuff, but on, like, there's a missing ingredient of the old Huey Long system. Here's chicken in every pot. And the culture war. That's how it works. You need both to be in balance. And they don't have the. And they're not doing the economic stu stuff.

[Sam Stein]

And I would take it even. I mean, I don't. She didn't say this, but, like, it doesn't take a genius to say, man, should we really be throwing great Gatsby parties? Like, while we're cutting SNAP benefits? Like, does that str. Does that ring out like populist right to us? I mean, honestly, I think if she were. I think she's like, one step removed from saying we shouldn't be throwing Gatsby parties at Mar Lago during this while we're cutting SNAP benefits. Because that's basically that's it. I mean, Trump is just. And that's kind of confounding to me. Like, Trump, I don't think he's like. I think he's smart about politics. I don't think he's a smart guy, but I think smart about politics. And I can't believe how bad he's fumbling this specific moment. I just. It's unfathomable to me that someone would throw that party, then turn around three days later and say, you know what? This court order decision that I have to distribute needed food aid, I'm not. I'm going to defy it. I mean, what good is that? What good does that do you?

[Tim O'Brien]

It is so strange how bad Trump is missing this, right? Because, like, I mean, we've all been panicked for 10 months. Like, Trump is going to defy court orders, and he has a couple times in the immigration stuff, and it's like. But there have been a lot of bad court rulings against him, and it's like, that he would pick this one to be like, you don't know. I'm not going to provide court ordered food aid so that kids and the elderly don't go hungry, including a lot of my own voters. It's, it's like what feels, it's madness. And, and, and I think that the, the last thing I have in this, why the Marjorie thing is interesting is, and I think it's sometimes hard for people to come from the left to like kind of see this. And, and it's like the, the defections from my tribe, like the center right, over norms, institutions and culture issues. Like it was legit. Like the Democrats are gonna get a lot of votes from former Republicans in New Jersey and Virginia today. And it's not. So it's not like they're totally non meaningful, but like Trump was never gonna lose power just by being nibbled at from like the minority of culturally liberal Republicans. Right. Like, it just, it was never like, this was always his big vulnerability and it really has. There's never been anybody to carry the mantle for it. I didn't think it would be Marjorie Taylor Greene, but nobody. If you just think back about all the people who have defected over Trump since 2016 from Republican Party, none of them have been from like the populist. Right.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim O'Brien]

Really?

[Sam Stein]

That's right.

[Tim O'Brien]

And there have been some libertarians and then some like center right, whatever, you know, our people, my people. So I think that it is interesting, you know, the whole theory that Trump could, would never lose his grip on his people. I don't, I don't know, maybe that's true, but I think this is the type of critique she is delivering, is the one that would be the most likely to cause him political trouble within his own coalition.

[Sam Stein]

I totally agree, and I hadn't thought about it that way, but you know, if she is a harbinger of things to come, that is problematic for him to lose that populist. Right? And maybe that is what you're seeing with these podcasts, people that you follow, right? Like, they, they're not happy with this. They don't think he's really hit the marks on the things he's promised. So who knows? I mean, I, again, it comes down to her motiv. Is this for some sort of personal benefit, political benefit, or is it a genuine, you know, populist thing? And I just don't know.

[Tim O'Brien]

We will find out. Marjorie, come on.

[Sam Stein]

I have to ask you one last thing. Total non sequitur. The sandwich guy. Yeah, he had the guy who threw the sandwich at the cop in D.C. he had his court date today. Did you see this?

[Tim O'Brien]

I saw. The cop testified. Yes, he is.

[Sam Stein]

I wanted to say what the cop said and then get your reaction to it. Okay, so the cop testified. I was going to go to the court today because I thought it would make for a fun story, but I got too busy. The cop takes the stand and he says that he could feel the impact of the sandwich through his ballistic vest and it, quote, explode. Exploded all over my uniform. He says he could, quote, smell the onions in the mustard. Look, I have strong feelings about this, but if this is in life without parole for the sandwich guy after this, then I can't believe in our justice system anymore.

[Tim O'Brien]

Subway sandwiches do smell bad. I will agree with you. Stinky onion smell stinky. They are stinky. But if the. If the officer's greatest harm done to him was that he smelled a little bit like Subway, that's harm.

[Sam Stein]

That's real.

[Tim O'Brien]

Is it? You could.

[Sam Stein]

That's lifelong trauma.

[Tim O'Brien]

I feel like that's a duty service. I think I just want to say sandwich man, I am with you. Resist.

[Sam Stein]

Sandwich like this.

[Tim O'Brien]

Sandwich resist. Stay away from subways people. You don't want to be stanking like this. Look at that mustard and onion salami sub. We'll be back later. See y' all then.

[Sam Stein]

Peace. Later.

[Tim O'Brien]

Foreign.

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