No Kings Could Be the Biggest Protest EVER (w/ Ezra Levin)

Summary

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Bulwark Takes – "No Kings Could Be the Biggest Protest EVER"

Host: Tim Miller (The Bulwark)
Guest: Ezra Levin (Co-Founder, Indivisible & No Kings Protest Organizer)
Release Date: March 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller welcomes back Ezra Levin, co-founder of Indivisible, to discuss the upcoming "No Kings 3" protests, which are on track to become the largest in American history. They dive into the protest's scope, strategy, organizing tactics, and the broader anti-authoritarian movement in the U.S. Ezra provides firsthand insight into logistics, participant safety, diversity outreach, and the protest’s purpose beyond just mobilization. The conversation also navigates how sustained organizing, community engagement, and nonviolent resistance can yield change, touching on recent government shutdowns and violence amidst political unrest.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scale and Purpose of No Kings 3

• Historic Numbers:
  • Ezra highlights that No Kings 3 is already set to surpass previous records.
    • "We have the largest protest in American history coming up this Saturday...already more than 3,100 protests on the map." (Ezra, 01:27)
  • Previous protests:
    • "No Kings 1...5 million people at 2,100 protests."
    • "No Kings 2...7 million people at 2,700 protests around the world."
• Vision & Goals:
  • The protests aren’t just about numbers, but also about signaling that the current authoritarian president isn't invincible.
    • "That message...he isn't all powerful. He's actually a weak, lame duck authoritarian president who's on the way out." (Ezra, 04:38)

2. Measuring Participation

• Headcount Challenges:
  • Estimating attendance blends “art” and “science,” using input from on-the-ground hosts, experts like Erica Chenoweth, and crowd science methodologies.
    • "There is a whole...It's art, it's science...Nobody's taking attendance at these events. There's not somebody signing you in everywhere." (Ezra, 03:06)
• Critical Mass for Change:
  • The organizing rule of thumb is 3.5% of the population for major authoritarian pushback (~11-12 million in the U.S.).

3. The Power and Limits of Single-Day Protest

• Beyond the Rally:
  • Protests are just one tactic in a comprehensive strategy; deeper, ongoing organizing is essential.
    • "If the only thing you're ever doing is showing up on a Saturday protest...you're not going to save democracy." (Ezra, 04:09)
• Recruitment:
  • “One day protest can pull people in, but then what you need to do is something akin to...a level of depth of organizing that goes beyond a Saturday.” (Ezra, 05:41)
• Building from the Day:
  • Ezra urges participants to recruit others:
    • “Text three people who have never been to a protest before...an invitation to this incredible party that is powerful and historic and fun and community building and you should be part of it.” (Ezra, 06:35)

4. Escalating Tactics: From Protest to Economic Pressure

• Effective Resistance:
  • Suggests impactful organizing: boycotts, school and work stoppages, solidarity actions like clergy in the streets.
  • "They did it by shutting down businesses, by refusing to go to schools, by teachers not going and teaching kids...forcing a societal impact..." (Ezra, 06:01)

5. Diversity, Outreach, and Mirth as Resistance

• Community Representation:
  • Discussion on engaging broader demographics, particularly youth and underrepresented groups.
    • “You don't build connections with communities unless you go out to the communities...This is for you too." (Ezra, 09:25)
• Risk & Responsibility:
  • Some communities face higher risks simply attending protests, compelling those with more privilege to stand up.
    • “All the more responsibility on us to show up and defend the First Amendment rights for everybody else.” (Ezra, 09:55)
• Power of Joy and Community:
  • Vibrancy, humor, and fun can be a potent threat to authoritarian regimes.
    • “They don't understand mirth...They hate you showing up in a unicorn costume. They hate your funny signs...they want you to be alone.” (Ezra, 14:20)
  • Tim adds: “I love mirth. I try to do a lot of mirth because it is painful.” (Tim, 15:14)

6. Security Amidst Political Violence

• Responding to Attacks:
  • High-profile murders (Melissa Hortman, Alex Preddy, Renee Goode) have shaped strategy and heightened security.
    • "We're living under an authoritarian regime that uses political violence for a purpose...The response I've seen...is the most inspiring thing that I've ever seen." (Ezra, 10:53)
  • 200,000+ trained in Eyes On Eye nonviolent resistance training.
• Safety Protocols:
  • Every protest has a “safety lead” and plan; this is not “our first rodeo.”
    • "Every single no Kings protest has a safety lead, a safety plan. They got to go through hours of safety training..." (Ezra, 12:06)

7. Government Shutdown, DHS, and Activist Demands

• Background:
  • Ongoing DHS shutdown rooted in police violence and controversial funding debates.
    • “We're in a shutdown...Not just because ICE murdered Renee Goode, but because Border Patrol murdered Alex Preddy.” (Ezra, 16:13)
  • Activist skepticism about any Congressional deal that would fund Border Patrol with no reforms.
    • "Any deal that doesn't move ICE forward but does move Border Patrol forward without new restrictions...is nonsensical." (Ezra, 17:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Why Protest Matters:
  • “The main thing that we're trying to get to is 3 1/2% of the population engaged. That's what the anti authoritarian experts say...We're not there yet, Tim. That's why we need everybody to be recruiting their friends and families out.” (Ezra, 02:16)
• On Protest as Joyful Defiance:
  • “They don't understand mirth. And that is, I think that's real...they hate the fact that you're dancing and, and laughing and building community because that's a real threat to them.” (Ezra, 14:20)
• On Sustained Activism:
  • “If the only thing you're ever doing is showing up on a Saturday protest...you're not going to save democracy.” (Ezra, 04:09)
• On Facing Political Violence:
  • “We trained 200,000 people on an Eyes On Eye train to basically learn how to do what Alex Brady and Renee Goode were doing when they were murdered.” (Ezra, 11:43)

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Key Timestamps

• Upcoming Protest Numbers & Hype: 01:27 – 02:14
• Counting Participants & Targeting 3.5%: 02:16 – 03:06
• Purpose and Strategy of No Kings Protests: 04:11 – 05:41
• Expanding Organizing Tactics: 05:59 – 07:06
• Diversity & Building Broad Coalitions: 09:04 – 10:15
• Dealing with Political Violence & Security: 10:53 – 13:00
• The Role of Mirth in Protest: 14:09 – 15:14
• DHS Shutdown & Policy Demands: 15:14 – 17:22
• Final Call to Action: Sign Up, Recruit, Grow: 17:22 – 17:36

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Final Takeaways / Action Steps

• Find or Start a Protest:
  • Visit nokings.org to find nearby events or set up your own.
• Recruit Others:
  • Encourage at least three people who have never protested to join.
• Keep Building:
  • “Make this the biggest protest in history, and then do more next time.” (Ezra, 17:26)

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Tone & Style:
The episode balances urgency, realism, and optimism. Both Tim and Ezra blend humor and candid self-reflection with serious discussion, creating an atmosphere that’s accessible but forceful—especially emphasizing community, nonviolent resistance, and grassroots creativity as the best answer to authoritarian threats.

Transcript

[Ezra Levin]

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[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Bulwark. I'm delighted to welcome back co founder of Indivisible, the organization behind the no Kings protest. It's Ezra 11. It's just you and me this time. Where's your wife?

[Ezra Levin]

Sadly, you drew the short end of the stick. I don't know why I'm here. She's probably doing some other interviews with other people downstairs. It's nonstop right now, Tim.

[Tim Miller]

That's good. Give me up to speed. What's happening? What's the latest? The protests are coming up on Saturday. What do people need to know?

[Ezra Levin]

Oh, it's incredible. Look, we have the largest protest in American history coming up this Saturday. I know that sounds like bluster because I told you that before, but it proved to be the case. Last time I told you that. We had the largest protest in history for June's no kings one. Last year, that was 5 million people at 2100 protests. Then we had the largest protest in American history again in October of last year with no kings. Two 2700 protests around the world. We with 7 million people. Look, right now we've got two days left to register your no Kings protest. And already there are more than 3,100 protests on the map. So we're talking to the Guinness Book of World Records. It's gonna be big, it's gonna be powerful, it's gonna be joyful, it's gonna be boisterous. And people should get out there. And if there's not a no Kings protest within 30 minutes of where you live, go start your own. You got a couple days to pull it together.

[Tim Miller]

How do you do those headcounts?

[Ezra Levin]

7 million it is complex and it's not just us. So there is a whole. It's art, it's science. Erica Chenoweth is of any authoritarian expert who does some tracking of protest count size. We've also got Gliot Morris, who has his own method, his own methodology. We do a lot of work with the host to try to get in early numbers to do our best estimate. Look, I think the main thing that we're trying to get to is 3 1/2% of the population engaged. That's what the anti authoritarian experts say. That's what you need in terms of active numbers of the citizens engaged. Pushing back against the authoritarian. In the US context, that's 11 or 12 million. We're making progress. We're not there yet, Tim. That's why we need everybody to be recruiting their friends and families out.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I imagine you're like in a war room somewhere and it's like, we just heard from Poughkeepsie. 180 in Poughkeepsie.

[Ezra Levin]

That's exactly what it's like, Tim. Can I tell you that it is like, hey, we just got them to fill in the numbers. Well, this is how it compares to last time. Okay. And then the whole spreadsheet, an enormous spreadsheet is filling up with input from across the country. That's how we try to get the best sense of where it is. But it's an inexact science. It really is. As you can imagine, with 3,100 events, you're not going to get every. Nobody's taking attendance at these events. There's not somebody signing you in everywhere.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sure you get this question everywhere, so I'll just pass it to you. I was in Austin last week.

[Ezra Levin]

My hometown.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, exactly. And had developed some Q and A among some really nice, weird Austin people wanted. Yeah. That we're going to go to the no Kings rally on Saturday. But the question they asked me was like, okay, I'm going because I feel like I want to do something, you know, but I don't really know if this is doing anything. And is there something else I can do after? Because I'm just so mad and it's nice to feel good and to be about and be around people in the community and that's a good start. That's not nothing, but I want to do more. What do you tell people that. That ask you that question?

[Ezra Levin]

Look, I think people should be hard on our tactics. Absolutely. The way I think about no Kings is that it is a tactic among many tactics. That feeds into an overall strategy. And that strategy is organized, nonviolent mass of people power. And that strategy is designed to achieve a goal which is preventing the fascist from consolidating power permanently. If the only thing you're ever doing is showing up on a Saturday protest, regardless of how historic its size it is, you're not going to save democracy. I mean, that's pretty clear to all of us. So what can a one day protest like this do? One sends a very clear message that the guy who wants to appear all powerful, which is why he's launching wars and trying to crush American cities with a Gestapo force, that, that the message it sends is he isn't all powerful. He's actually a weak lame duck authoritarian president who's on the way out. And democracy is reasserting itself. And the way we know that is that there are 3,100 events in every nook and cranny of the country. Sending a message is nice, but it's not the only goal. That's a one day messaging victory. The reason why we're not storming into New York or San Francisco or Chicago and DC, just the big city centers and only doing it there is because of the. The second big thing that we can accomplish is recruiting people all over the country to be part of more meaningful deep organizing on the ground. Because you see it, I see it. This guy is planning to sabotage the midterm elections. That is where we're headed this year. And if you're going to push back effectively against an authoritarian, that's going to do that. A one day protest can pull people in, but then what you need to do is something akin to what we saw in the Twin Cities or in Chicago or in la. A level of depth of your organizing that goes beyond a Saturday and actually forces some economic pain onto a society that might otherwise just accept the authoritarian subverting our elections come November.

[Tim Miller]

By economic pain you mean what, like boycotts? That sort of thing?

[Ezra Levin]

Boycotts? No schools, no work. How did the neighbors in the Twin Cities link arms and effectively repel the attacks from the White House? They did it. Yes, with protests. That was useful for bringing people along. We had 1300 protests after Renee Goode was murdered. That's good. Raise the alarms, gets more people engaged. But they did it by showing up day in, day out. They did it by having clergy out in the streets, by shutting down businesses, by refusing to go to schools, by teachers not going and teaching kids. They did it by actually forcing a societal impact that, that successfully, I believe, repelled much of what the regime was trying to do in that city when they tried to steal the national elections. I think we're going to have to see that kind of organizing happening all over the country, but we can't wait until November to do that. So if people want to do more and they've been to protest before, what I would recommend them to do is not only go to that protest, text three people who have never been to a protest before, who aren't protest types, aren't activist types, and say, hey, I have a gift to give you. It's an invitation to this incredible party that is powerful and historic and fun and community building and you should be part of it. That's something everybody can do over the next few days.

[Tim Miller]

Look, I went to no Kings 1. I guess I have two thoughts thinking back of that back in New Orleans. It wasn't my fault about no Kings 2. I had long planned a cross country flight of the day of no Kingston. I was kind of annoyed at you actually that you planned it on that day. It was an immovable flight. So I was with you in spirit. But I was there for the first one.

[Ezra Levin]

It was Spirit Airlines.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, that was not on Spirit Airlines, but I was with you in spirit.

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[Tim Miller]

I live in New Orleans, obviously very diverse city and you're getting a lot of like the NPR crowd there and I don't and I really do not mean that as a pejorative like there's obviously everybody matters and Pushing back on the authoritarian regime and, and the fact that, you know, there is more, whatever middle class Gen X boomer types who have the time and interest and care and passion to go out there, like, that's awesome. But I was hearing that from the people there that it's like, how do we engage younger people? How do we engage more? Different types of demographics. How have you guys thought about that?

[Ezra Levin]

Look, I think there's no secret sauce here other than doing the work and doing the outreach. I was out in Selma two or three weekends ago for the 61st anniversary of the Selma crossing, Bloody Sunday. John Lewis is on my wall back there and we were meeting with the organizers of the Selma Jubilee and the person who founded the Selma Jubilee, Fire Rose. She came up and introduced herself and she had written a song to recruit four no Kings and sang it with the whole crowd. And yet. That is lovely. That is great. And also, you don't build connections with communities unless you go out to the communities. If you make an actual effort to say no, this is for you too. At the same time, we should recognize that a lot of communities are under intense threats right now, that many people in this moment are facing extraordinary risk to just show up to even go to the airports, as we are seeing right now. And for those of us who have a little bit more privilege and don't face the exact same level of risk, I think all the more responsibility on us to show up and defend the First Amendment rights for everybody else. So I'm proud of who showed up. It doesn't mean that we've got enough and doesn't mean we don't have to do outreach. We're trying to do more and more of that outreach. And if we're successful, the numbers will grow.

[Tim Miller]

We'll see. The other thing that struck me, thinking back to no Kings, the first one was like, as I was going, I was getting news of what happened to Ms. Melissa Hortman and political violence targeting her in Minneapolis. And, you know, thinking about that, how to. How we would cover that at the Bulwark, how to, you know, support the protests and also, you know, cover this, you know, horrible political violence. And I'm just wondering, like, how you guys process that. And it had to, like, really bring to the forefront just your thinking around security and everything related to that.

[Ezra Levin]

Well, look, it's horrific. We're living under an authoritarian regime that uses political violence for a purpose, which is to try to quell any dissent and try to disincentivize folks from exercising their First Amendment rights. I will say the response I've seen to political violence is the most inspiring thing that I've ever seen. And specifically in Minnesota, in response to Melissa Horton's murder in the local organizers of no Kings that day demanded. Demanded that the protests go forward despite our security concerns. And we were worried that maybe something would happen, people wouldn't feel comfortable. No, they wanted to show up two days out after Alex Preddy was murdered by Border Patrol. You could imagine people around the country would be like, oh, we can't show up. This is. This is bad. But I'm scared. We got to protect ourselves. We trained 200,000 people on an Eyes On Eye train to basically learn how to do what Alex Brady and Renee Goode were doing when they were murdered. I think this regime wants people to be scared. And the main response that I see from normal, everyday people in response to these threats is, okay, what do I got to do? How can I show up? So headed into no Kings 3, we're taking it seriously. Every single no Kings protest has a safety lead, a safety plan. They got to go through hours of safety training. And also, this isn't our first rodeo, Tim. This is our third rodeo, at least for no Kings. And they've been the largest protest in history and basically without incident. The folks who are organizing this, the folks who are showing up, are showing up boisterously, joyfully, and nonviolently. And the proof is in the pudding there. I will have you noted in the lead up to no Kings too. They were. The Republicans were all about how we were violent Marxists. We were radicals. Yeah, we were radicals. They call that the damn National Guard in some states. It was ridiculous. Ridiculous. But I challenge you find one elected Republican in the last couple of months who has even said the words no Kings. I don't think they're doing it. And I think they know that when they talk about this, it invites more coverage and more people come out and they look weaker. And so they are systematically looking to just have the whole country ignore that this largest protest in history is happening.

[Tim Miller]

That's such a great point. And what a shout out to all the people there. And it is, in some ways, I'm hoping the woman that asked me that question, Austin, is listening to this, because I feel like I wish I had answered that question differently because I offered her practical other things she could do. You know, I said, there's nothing wrong with feeling good about going out to no Kings and being with your friends and being in solidarity. And here's a few other ideas. But it is really more valuable than that. Like, not only, like showing up is not just about community, it's demonstrating, you know, resistance, demonstrating the ability of peaceful, non violent resistance and modeling that right for people because like they want, they, they wanted the protest to be violent. Like they called them violent, not because they thought that violence would be bad. They were calling you guys violent and trying to, because they're trying to instigate violence. Like that's what they wanted. It's like name calling on a schoolyard, right? Like trying to get the person to punch back and then go tell on the teacher, you know, like that's what they were trying to do. And the fact that that didn't work is really, is really inspiring. And it is quite a sea change in their messaging difference between the last two.

[Ezra Levin]

Look, I'm really, I'm honestly inspired by. These are not professional politicos, despite what the whack jobs on the right side. Nobody's receiving some big check from Soros in order to show up at these protests in Austin or anywhere else. These are people who feel strongly about democracy in their country and their community. And they're showing up to do something good in this moment. And I was talking to a, an anti authority and expert in Eastern Europe and he said something that's really stuck with me since about authoritarians. He said, ezra, they don't understand mirth. They don't understand mirth. And that is, I think that's real. I think we should realize how important mirth and joy and community is in this moment. They want you to be scared. They love to be feared. They love you to be afraid. They hate that you're showing up in a unicorn costume. They hate your funny signs. They hate the fact that you're dancing and, and laughing and building community because that's a real threat to them. They want you to be alone. So look, is a Saturday protest where we all get together and fuel mirth? Is that it? Is that the end game? No, but it's not nothing. It's something important and we can build from that.

[Tim Miller]

I love mirth. I do a lot of. I try to do a lot of mirth because it is painful. All right, last thing we're talking about a little bit in the green room. Just curious your take. So these negotiations, conversations are going on about the DHS shutdown. For anybody who listens to this knows, I was of the view that the Democrats won the first shutdown and that like the eventual back down was the right move strategically. And I think that that has kind of borne itself out as Trump has continued to lose political power and the Democrats have continued to kind of find their spine a little bit over the past six months. We're now at that point question again, right. Where the question is really more about Trump. Right. Like the Democrats and some Republicans have offered, you know, basically a funding of DHS without including ice. And then like you separate ICE into a different package. Trump seems to be not wanting to do that or maybe just having a temper tantrum about it. And then he'll do it eventually. I don't know. We'll see. What is your take, just from kind of like an activist perspective on what you think people want to see from Democrats in Congress on this debate.

[Ezra Levin]

Let's keep in mind the context. So why are we in a shutdown right now? We're in a shutdown right now. Not just because ICE murdered Renee Goode, but because Border Patrol murdered Alex Preddy. And it was actually Border Patrol's murder of Alex Preddy. Then the propaganda that came from the White House and the public backlash to that propaganda that shifted things midway through the legislative process the week before, a couple days before Preddy's murder, Hakeem Jeffries was out there saying, look, the Democrats aren't going to unify in this because we're not a cult. So it'll probably just sail through. Then Alex Preddy is murdered. That changes the political realities on the ground. The Senate Democrats unify than to fight back against this with popular support. So here's what I would say. Any deal that doesn't move ICE forward but does move Border Patrol forward without any new restrictions or any new reforms. It's nonsensical. Why did you get into this fight to begin with? Then you're leaving Alex Freddy's murderers on the streets and folks like them on the streets terrorizing American communities. I don't know who that's going to satisfy. Certainly not the people showing up at no Kings on Saturday.

[Tim Miller]

Interesting. All right. Anything I missed? Anything you want people to know? Where do they go? Sign up.

[Ezra Levin]

You can go to nokings.org, find your protest on the map or get to plan your own. Get three friends out there, make this the biggest protest in history, and then do more next time.

[Tim Miller]

Can I have your wife? Can we have Leah on the show for name before no Kings 4? Because she was just a delight.

[Ezra Levin]

I agree.

[Tim Miller]

If I had my preference. That's all I've got.

[Ezra Levin]

My preference.

[Tim Miller]

I appreciate you, brother. Stay in touch. Holler if we can do anything. Appreciate all the work you've been doing, it's really impressive.

[Ezra Levin]

I got you, Tim. Thanks.

[Tim Miller]

All right, everybody. Subscribe to the feed. We'll see you later.

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