Bulwark Takes – No Kings Organizer: Mike Johnson Was Our Best Organizer!

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: October 20, 2025
Host: Sam Stein (A), Lauren Egan (C)
Guest: Ezra Levin, Co-founder of Indivisible (B)

Overview

In this episode, the Bulwark team sits down with Ezra Levin, the co-founder of Indivisible, following the record-breaking "No Kings" rallies across the U.S. Levin shares insights into organizing massive grassroots protests, the importance of distributed local activism, and how the movement is responding to authoritarianism under Trump’s second term. The conversation explores rally strategy, data-driven activism, the challenges of coalition-building beyond the Democratic Party, and the balance between digital and old-school organizing. The guest also reflects on the impact of Democratic Party failures and lays out what comes next for the movement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scale and Growth of "No Kings" Mobilizations

Timestamps: [00:25]–[01:16]

• Over 7 million people attended more than 2,700 "No Kings" rallies nationwide, making it the largest peaceful protest in American history.
• Attendance at protests has shown a clear upward trend:
  • April ("Hands Off"): 3 million at 1,300 events
  • June ("No Kings 1"): 5 million at 2,100 events
  • October ("No Kings 2"): 7+ million at 2,700+ events
• The movement has gone from large major cities to small rural communities ("Jenner, California, population 120, had a no Kings rally. We had 15 rallies in Alaska. Every single island of Hawaii." [04:27]).

2. Why The Momentum Keeps Building

Timestamps: [01:16]–[03:01]

• Trump's unpopularity, perceived attacks on American cities, and an alienation of his own base are key motivators for the surge.
• Publicity generated (inadvertently) by opponents, particularly Rep. Mike Johnson, drove more attention and turnout:
  • “Mike Johnson...just really spent the 10 days leading into the protest doing everything he could to build the publicity behind No Kings 2...Mike, if you're, if you're out there, really appreciate your hard work.” —Ezra Levin [02:35]

3. Strategies Behind Localized, Infrequent Rallies

Timestamps: [03:04]–[05:32]

• Scarcity increases impact—protests are not weekly to avoid burnout and keep energy high.
• Decentralized, nationwide rallies emphasize unity and the reach of opposition:
  • “We wanted a sense that this was everywhere...this isn't just blue America versus red America...This is everybody.” —Ezra Levin [04:28]
• Peaceful opposition in unlikely places (rural "Trump country") challenges the narrative of a divided America.

4. The 3.5% Rule: Theoretical and Practical Goals

Timestamps: [05:32]–[07:16]

• The movement aspires to the "Erica Chenoweth 3.5% theory" (sustained mass mobilization can block authoritarianism):
  • “3.5% is a figure in our heads...not some magical figure...but...are there three and a half percent of the population engaged and productive on the ground, organizing in opposition to the regime consistently?” —Ezra Levin [06:32]
• It’s not just about one-day turnout, but persistent, cohesive engagement.

5. From Protest to Persistent Organization

Timestamps: [07:16]–[11:07]

• Data from protests is used not to build a party-focused machine, but to cultivate ongoing, face-to-face local organizing.
  • “Signing bullshit online petitions, fundraising through SMS...is a good way to burn out a grassroots force.” —Ezra Levin [09:18]
  • “The only way that I've discovered...is to get them plugged in...Face to face local organizing with ideally a community of people who they like, who do important work and have fun doing it.” [09:33]
• Coalitions must transcend Democratic Party lines and even include disaffected Trump voters seeking lower prices or other change:
  • “We've got to build this big enormous coalition of folks who...can't agree on everything...but...we don't do kings in this country.” —Ezra Levin [08:54]

6. Navigating Democratic Party Relationships

Timestamps: [11:07]–[13:08]

• Democratic politicians are welcome but not central; movement success is measured by “force” and defiance, not by alignment with party figures.
  • “Politicians go where the people go...you build up a big enough group...you're going to find elected officials.” —Ezra Levin [11:40]

7. What’s Been Most Galvanizing?

Timestamps: [13:08]–[15:34]

• Both Trump’s actions and Democratic fecklessness have fueled activism.
• Specific issues: anti-immigrant policies, Democratic Party capitulation, secret police, attacks on civil liberties, surge in funding to paramilitary forces.
  • “...People look at Trump and they look at local Democratic leadership and like, shit, I guess I've got to do something.” —Ezra Levin [13:33]
  • “...They're on a hiring spree for the Proud Boys right now...if people are upset now, it's only going to get worse.” [15:17]

8. The Challenges and Reality of Hyper-Online Activism

Timestamps: [15:34]–[17:33]

• Balances digital tools with a priority on in-person organizing for safety, solidarity, and real-world impact.
  • “Human beings...have been gathering in small groups, geographically based, for 200,000 years...there is something very natural during times of threat of wanting to reach out to other human beings for protection and safety.” —Ezra Levin [16:21]
• Growing digital threats have made some activists wary, especially federal employees.

9. Next Steps: Sustaining Momentum

Timestamps: [17:33]–[18:58]

• Short term: Win the government shutdown struggle; support effective Dems, hold others accountable.
• Immediate focus: Elections in Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California, etc.
• “We should not give up on the democratic republic side. We should wipe the floor with them across the country wherever there are elections.” —Ezra Levin [17:53]
• 2025 will bring further "No Kings" rallies and rapid mobilizations against government/corporate authoritarian overreach.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mike Johnson’s unwitting promotional help:

  • “I didn’t pay him a dollar for any of that, but he just couldn’t stop talking about this big protest coming up on Saturday...really appreciate your hard work for nobody.” —Ezra Levin [02:35]

• On coalition-building and broad appeal:

  • “If we’re not attracting people who find the Democratic Party off-putting, we’re not going to succeed...if we’re not attracting people who voted for Trump because they wanted lower prices...then we’re not going to succeed.” —Ezra Levin [08:25]

• On the mechanics of organizing:

  • “Signing bullshit online petitions...is a good way to burn out a grassroots force...the only way...is to get them plugged in in...old-fashioned...face to face local organizing.” —Ezra Levin [09:17]

• On what’s driving people to act:

  • “...They look at Trump and...local Democratic leadership and like, shit, I guess I’ve got to do something.” —Ezra Levin [13:33]

• On the resilience of human organizing:

  • "There is something very natural during times of threat of wanting to reach out to other human beings for protection and safety.” —Ezra Levin [16:54]

Episode Timeline

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Intros, recounting weekend’s mass protests, rally stats | | 01:16 | Motivators & trends behind growing turnout | | 03:01 | The strategic role of rally scarcity & local focus | | 05:32 | Discussing the "3.5% theory" for resistance movements | | 07:16 | Data collection, protester engagement, and growing beyond electoral activism | | 11:07 | Democratic officials’ involvement and movement independence | | 13:08 | Key flashpoints and galvanizing issues in the movement | | 15:34 | Organizing in a hyper-online era: benefits and limitations | | 17:33 | Future plans: Shutdown, elections, movement evolution, continued mobilization | | 18:58 | Closing thanks and episode wrap-up |

Summary prepared for listeners seeking an in-depth understanding of episode content, structure, and notable insights.