Bulwark Takes: “Norman Rockwell’s Granddaughter Rips Into DHS for Hijacking His Legacy”

Date: December 29, 2025
Guests: Daisy Rockwell (artist, writer, Norman Rockwell’s granddaughter)
Host: Katherine Ramphel

Overview

This episode explores the controversy around the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) using iconic Norman Rockwell paintings in unauthorized social media campaigns, which promote anti-immigrant sentiment. Daisy Rockwell, Norman Rockwell’s granddaughter, shares her family’s outrage at the misuse of his art, explains what Rockwell actually stood for, and reflects on his evolution as an artist and a voice for civil rights. The discussion explores how Rockwell’s legacy has been misunderstood and manipulated—and what it truly represents about American values.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The DHS Campaign and Unauthorized Use of Rockwell’s Art

• Context: The Department of Homeland Security has been employing Norman Rockwell’s imagery in their anti-immigrant promotional posts without obtaining permission from the Rockwell family and while the works remain under copyright.

  • Example: Using Rockwell’s wholesome Americana images alongside phrases like “Protect our American way of life,” depicting exclusively white figures ([01:36]–[02:30]).

• Daisy Rockwell’s Reaction: Outraged, viewing it as a violation of both copyright and Rockwell’s ethos.

  “We are all, everybody in the family is outraged ... there’s zero people in my family that approve of what the Department of Homeland Security is doing. ... To have our grandfather's work used to promote that was just shocking and appalling.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [06:09]

• DHS Response: Instead of stopping after a public letter and op-ed in USA Today from the family, DHS continued posting more images, including a Boy Scout-themed painting ([06:53]).

The Real Norman Rockwell: Anti-Fascism and Inclusivity

• Rockwell’s Later Career: Contrary to modern interpretations, Rockwell was not just a painter of white, small-town innocence. In the 1960s, he became an outspoken advocate for justice, using his art to highlight civil rights.

  “Norman Rockwell was anti-fascist. These are all anti-fascist paintings.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [03:58]

  "He believed compassion, inclusiveness and justice for all were the real message for America.”
  — Daisy Rockwell, as referenced by the host [02:44]

• Misuse of Imagery: Daisy draws a parallel between Rockwell’s intent and the current DHS campaigns:

  “They used them with text in such a way to make it seem like his work aligned with their values.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [04:48]

The Complexities of Copyright and Control

• Copyright vs. Memes and Parody: While Rockwell’s art frequently appears online (often as parody or commentary), the family selectively pushes back when the usage is particularly egregious or misleading:
  • Daisy gives examples of cultural parodies—aliens or pop stars taking the place of original figures in Rockwell’s works ([05:09]).
  • They chose to publicly challenge DHS to “educate” and make clear the misuse ([05:04]–[05:51]).

Norman Rockwell’s Artistic Transformation

• From Wholesome to Woke: While Rockwell was famous for wholesome, mostly white depictions of American life, he shifted to overt civil rights imagery in his later years.

  • The pivotal work: “The Problem We All Live With” (Ruby Bridges’ story), published when Rockwell was nearly 70 years old ([10:02]).
  • Daisy notes artistic decisions such as faceless officials in the Ruby Bridges painting, focusing all attention on the child’s bravery ([08:01]–[08:41]).

  “He could have rested on his laurels ... but instead, he decided to create a proof, create an archive of how he felt about this moment and to stand up and make himself counted.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [10:37]

  "What's possible at 70—that you can, you know, you can create your best work or ... make your loudest stand when you're an older person."
  — Daisy Rockwell [11:17]

The Family’s Indignation

• Unified Disgust: The Rockwell family, despite internal differences, is unanimous in their opposition to the DHS misappropriation.
  • Daisy views the social media team responsible as “trolls,” dismissing the effort as adolescent and thoughtless ([06:53]–[07:20]).

What Would Daisy Say to Trump or DHS Leaders?

• Daisy expresses cynicism about engaging with figures like Donald Trump or DHS Secretary Kristi Noem; she doubts any appeal to values or facts would be influential.

  “If I could speak to Donald Trump, I wouldn’t bother because I don’t think anything would stick.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [01:30]/[08:54]

  “This appropriation, trying to appropriate American images, trying to create this narrative of white supremacy, I would have many things to tell her [Kristi Noem].”
  — Daisy Rockwell [09:30]

Reclaiming Rockwell’s Legacy

• Challenges of Public Perception: Daisy acknowledges that the public tends to remember the “wholesome” American imagery and forgets—or never knew about—Rockwell’s passionate response to civil rights and inclusion ([07:25]–[08:01], [10:02]).
• Her Intent: The family’s campaign is about clarity, education, and defending Norman Rockwell’s actual values in the face of political distortion.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Misappropriation:

  “They used them with text in such a way to make it seem like his work aligned with their values.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [04:48]

• On Civil Rights Paintings:

  “He was inspired by Ruby Bridges’ solo walk to school... let’s focus on her and this journey.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [08:01]

• On Government Trolling:

  “This is like a bunch of 11-year-old boys ... they’re just trolls. Like, they don’t even know what they’re doing.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [06:53]

• On Artistic Courage at Any Age:

  “What’s possible at 70— that you can ... create your best work or ... make your loudest stand when you’re an older person as well, and you don’t have to just ... sit back and say, okay, I guess this is how things turned out.”
  — Daisy Rockwell [11:17]

• On Talking to Trump:

  "If I could speak to Donald Trump, I wouldn't bother because I don't think anything would stick."
  — Daisy Rockwell [01:30]/[08:54]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• DHS’s Use of Rockwell and Family’s Reaction: [01:36]–[06:09]
• Explanation of Copyright & Internet Use: [05:04]–[05:51]
• Rockwell as Civil Rights Painter: [07:49]–[08:41]
• Message to Trump and Noem: [08:54]–[09:34]
• Rockwell’s Late-life Transformation: [10:02]–[11:17]
• Family’s Unified Outrage, Characterizing DHS Team: [06:09]–[07:20]

Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, slightly irreverent, and passionate. Daisy Rockwell is forthright, sometimes humorous, but unwavering in her condemnation of DHS and defense of her grandfather’s progressive legacy.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a nuanced look into the modern political manipulation of iconic art and the fight by the artist’s heirs to reclaim and protect its meaning, especially when it comes to issues of American identity, inclusion, and history. Daisy Rockwell’s perspective provides both a correction to public misinterpretation and an inspiring reminder of the power of standing up for one’s values—at any age.