Bulwark Takes – “Okay, What's REALLY Going on With Benny Johnson?”

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: December 8, 2025
Hosts: Charlie Sykes (Bulwark), Sam Stein, Tim Miller
Guest: Will Sommer

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the recent right-wing internecine drama centered on Benny Johnson, TPUSA’s traditional-values influencer, and the explosive claims made by Milo Yiannopoulos. The Bulwark team explores the veracity and motives behind these allegations, examines the broader civil war inside MAGA conservatism, and interrogates the role that sexuality, hypocrisy, and factional warfare play within today’s right-wing sphere.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: What’s Happening with Benny Johnson and Milo?

• Allegations Surface:
  • Milo Yiannopoulos attacked Benny Johnson on Tim Pool’s podcast, alleging long-standing rumors about Benny’s sexual orientation, questioning his self-presentation as a “trad” (traditional) family man.
  • Milo: “Everybody knows what went on with Benny Johnson in those lobbies and in those hotel rooms at Sass. Everybody knows.” (05:00)
• Benny as a ‘Trad’ Icon:
  • Benny’s brand built on Christian, family-first messaging (“Get a wife, get a piece of land, get children” – 02:37).
• Possible Legal Fallout:
  • Benny reportedly threatening legal action; Milo remains defiant and unconcerned: “I have said these things about people for 20 years and never once in my career been sued.” (06:38)

2. Why Now? Underlying Factional Fights on the Right

• Factional Dynamics in MAGA World (03:52–04:53):
  • Breakdown of right-wing influencer factions:
    • “MAGA establishment” (e.g., Charlie Kirk’s camp, Benny Johnson)
    • Hardline outsiders (e.g., Milo, Candace Owens, Nick Fuentes)
    • “There’s no old establishment anymore... there’s like a MAGA establishment.” (04:03, Tim Miller)
  • Milo’s attacks seen as part of a broader power play—“putting his little ladder up on the castle and trying to climb up.” (03:17, Will Sommer)
• Turning Point USA’s Role:
  • Benny identified as central to TPUSA’s appeal and “stagecraft,” and as a powerbroker in the broader Kirk legacy fight (05:15–05:19).

3. The Ethics and Politics of ‘Outing’

• Tim Miller’s Caution:
  • “When you put yourself in the role of God and start saying, oh, I'm going to decide who and what needs to be revealed about other people's lives—that makes me uncomfortable at times.” (08:39)
• Exceptions and Hypocrisy:
  • Outings somewhat justified in cases of direct hypocrisy or harm, e.g., anti-gay pastors caught in scandals.
• Past Rumors & Social Media Evidence:
  • Discussion of evidence and rumors, with Sam Stein referencing an instance where Benny’s web browsing elicited ads for gay cruises (09:15); Sayeed Jones’s public claim of having kissed Benny at a BuzzFeed party (“Over at the Vibe Check podcast, Sai Jones said that he kissed Benny Johnson in the dressing room at the BuzzFeed holiday party in 2013.” – 09:41)

4. Consequences for Benny if Allegations Are True

• Intense Backlash Expected:
  • “It would definitely sort of change his trajectory on the right.” (12:28, Will Sommer)
  • Comparisons made to Rob Smith (out right-wing influencer, “much more marginal”) and George Santos (“ostracized to the outskirts” – 14:09).
• Identity Tied to Christianity & Family:
  • A central pillar of Benny’s brand is his traditional Christian persona; a revelation would deeply challenge this.

5. On the Weaponization of Sexuality

• Milo’s Contradictory Claims and Motives (15:18–17:45):
  • Milo claims to have “evidence and witnesses,” but is described as a serial provocateur whose arguments often contradict (“On the one end, he’s like, gay isn’t real, it’s just a trauma response. And then on the other hand, he says, these people are definitely gay.” – 17:34, Sam Stein)
  • The group agrees that within MAGA circles, sexuality is regularly wielded as a “factional cudgel,” not a matter of principle (18:20–18:36).
  • Charlie Sykes: “It is notable that in Milo’s telling, someone who’s been in a gay relationship for a decade—Pete Buttigieg—is just faking it. And someone who's been in a straight relationship for a decade—Benny Johnson—is faking it…and they're just, you know, using it politically for their advantage.” (18:40)
• Authenticity Versus Opportunism:
  • The panel notes the lack of sincerity or empathy in these internal attacks and the performative nature of the outrage.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Factional Infighting:

“Milo's kind of like putting his little ladder up on the castle and trying to climb up...he sees Benny correctly as kind of like part of the Turning Point USA operation broadly.”
— Will Sommer (03:17)

On Benny's ‘Traditional’ Persona:

“Get a wife, get a piece of land, get children…not like, I'm a — also a family man, I have a family. But that, I don't know that counts in his view.”
— Sam Stein/Tim Miller (02:37–02:57)

On the Dangers of Outing:

“When you put yourself in the role of God and start saying, oh, I'm going to decide who and what needs to be revealed about other people's lives—that makes me uncomfortable at times.”
— Tim Miller (08:39)

On Social Media & Evidence:

“Benny tweeted himself a picture of a website he was on that included gay cruise advertisements…saying, why is this smut on my computer? Not realizing that those ads are targeted to people that search for such matters.”
— Tim Miller (09:15)

On the Impact if the Allegations Were True:

“It would definitely sort of change his trajectory on the right. I mean, I think you can look at guys who are, you know, out right wing influencers and typically they're people like Rob Smith…much more marginal figures than someone like Benny.”
— Will Sommer (12:28)

On Contradictions and Weaponization:

“On the one end, he's like, gay isn't real. It's nothing. It's just a trauma response. And then on the other hand, he's like, these people are definitely gay.”
— Sam Stein (17:34)

On Lack of Principle:

“It's just using it as a cudgel in whatever way is convenient at the moment.”
— Tim Miller (18:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:40 – Will Sommer outlines Milo's public accusations and their significance.
• 03:17–04:53 – Analysis of new right-wing factions and why these skirmishes are happening now.
• 05:49–06:57 – Milo's direct, unsubstantiated claims from Tim Pool's podcast discussed; George Santos cautions about lawsuits.
• 08:39–09:41 – Debate about the ethics and risk of ‘outing’ public figures in media.
• 12:13–14:29 – Likely impact on Benny and the unique role of family and Christian identity.
• 15:18–17:45 – Parsing Milo’s motives and contradictions; noting how “gay” is used strategically for infighting.
• 18:20–18:40 – Conclusion: the real issue is not ideology or genuine outrage but internal power struggles.

Tone and Takeaway

The Bulwark crew approaches the subject with their characteristic blend of sharp skepticism, humor, and cautious morality. They skewer the cynicism and opportunism of right-wing influencer feuds, while also taking pains to differentiate between justified critique and harmful outing or rumor-mongering.

The episode ultimately frames these allegations less as a genuine moral reckoning and more as the latest volley in the constant civil war consuming MAGA conservatism: an intra-right struggle where ‘traditional values’ and sexuality are brandished far more as weapons than as principles.

For listeners curious about the melodrama on the MAGA right, the power struggles behind TPUSA, and the ethical dilemmas of political ‘outing,’ this episode is an incisive and lively primer.