Bulwark Takes: "Our Democracy Is Actually Dying" Release Date: May 11, 2025
Hosts: The Bulwark Team, including Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, and Bill Kristol
Guest: Daniel Ziblatt, Political Scientist and Author of How Democracies Die
Introduction
In the episode titled "Our Democracy Is Actually Dying," The Bulwark team engages in a profound discussion with renowned political scientist Daniel Ziblatt. The conversation delves into the alarming trajectories of American democracy under Donald Trump's second term, drawing parallels with historical authoritarian regimes and examining the vulnerabilities within U.S. institutions.
The Accelerated Erosion of Democratic Institutions
Daniel Ziblatt begins by expressing his grave concerns about the rapid pace at which democratic institutions are being undermined:
“[02:46] ...the pace of the capture of many of the main institutions of our democracy... the first hundred days really are shocking at some level.”
Ziblatt highlights that the initial expectations of repeated incompetence hindering authoritarian capture were proven overly optimistic. Instead, the Trump administration has swiftly consolidated power, treating the presidency's fifth year as if it were continuous from the first term.
Historical Parallels: Authoritarianism and Democratization
The discussion draws comparisons between Trump's strategies and those of other authoritarian leaders like Viktor Orban of Hungary:
“[05:04] ...it's the fifth year of Trump's overall project at work, not the first hundred days.”
Ziblatt references his earlier work to illustrate how outside populist leaders often depend on initial alliances with established institutions before manipulating and overriding them to subvert democracy. The comparison underscores the calculated approach taken by Trump to embed loyalists within key government departments.
Patrimonialism and the Weaponization of the State
Exploring the concept of patrimonialism, the conversation touches upon how leaders fill state apparatus with loyalists, thereby weaponizing institutions against democratic norms:
“[09:12] ...there's a kind of global wave of new form of... the state is being hollowed out... Max Weber's concept of patrimonial regimes.”
Ziblatt emphasizes that this strategy not only weakens the state's functionality but also poses a direct threat to the rule of law and democratic integrity by prioritizing personal loyalty over institutional accountability.
Congressional Inaction and Executive Overreach
A critical point of discussion centers on Congress's apparent impotence in countering executive overreach:
“[24:49] ...Trump has issued 147 executive orders at least as of the first hundred days, which is more than anybody since Roosevelt, 1933.”
Ziblatt argues that the Republican Party's silence and lack of resistance enable the executive branch to bypass legislative checks, thereby diminishing the role of Congress in maintaining democratic balance. This unchecked executive power threatens to permanently distort the American state and its institutions.
The Role of Civic and Political Elites
The conversation shifts to the responsibility of civic leaders and political elites in safeguarding democracy:
“[38:17] ...business leaders and civic leaders... need to have a clear understanding of what are the red lines, what kinds of things are unacceptable.”
Ziblatt asserts that active and vocal condemnation from influential societal leaders is crucial in setting boundaries against authoritarian tendencies. He cites Germany's response to the AfD party as an example where unified elite opposition led to a decline in extremist support.
Public Disengagement and the Need for Leadership
A significant concern raised is the public's passive response to democratic erosion, exacerbated by elite inaction:
“[33:10] ...powerful actors with a lot of resources at their disposal aren't going to criticize it, then why am I going to.”
Ziblatt emphasizes that without clear leadership from elites, ordinary citizens may feel uninspired or powerless to oppose authoritarian measures, allowing such tendencies to flourish unchecked.
Looking Forward: Electoral Implications and Democratic Resilience
The episode concludes with an examination of the potential long-term impacts on elections and democratic resilience:
“[45:39] ...all of this stuff really matters if it tilts the electoral playing field in such a way that it makes it harder for the small d Democratic opposition to win.”
Ziblatt warns that distortion of the electoral process, whether through media manipulation or legislative overreach, could solidify authoritarian control, making future political competition unfair and undermining the essence of democratic alternation of power.
Notable Quotes
-
Daniel Ziblatt on institutional capture:
“Once you have access to homeland security ICE Agency, obviously the Department of Defense, the Justice Department, these parts of the government that are connected to the coercive apparatus of the state. Once you have control of these, it's hard to dislodge.”
[07:36] -
Unnamed Speaker on patrimonialism:
“Patrimonialism is not just a weakening of the state, but it's potentially this... term that we use of weaponizing the state to attack democracy and the rule of law.”
[10:35] -
Daniel Ziblatt on elite responsibility:
“We need to have the kind of conceptual apparatus... to have uniform condemnation of actions that threaten democratic integrity.”
[38:17]
Conclusion
"Our Democracy Is Actually Dying" offers a sobering analysis of the current state of American democracy, underscored by historical insights and a call to action for both political and civic elites. Daniel Ziblatt's expertise illuminates the subtle yet profound threats posed by executive overreach and institutional capture, urging a collective effort to preserve democratic norms and prevent further erosion.
For those seeking a deeper understanding of the fragility of modern democracies and the mechanisms by which they can be dismantled from within, this episode provides both the theoretical framework and practical observations necessary to grasp the gravity of the situation.